The main work is done, and all that remains is setting up the transmitter programming, lock-tight on the screws, and a few other minor items. Technically it could take to the air right now.
Model Airplane News "Build to Win" Contest, Build Thread
- Thread starter Joker 53150
- Start date
I could tell you wanted to fly it by the way you rolled it down the driveway. It looks really good!
Yeah, I wish I had room enough to fly right outside the front door! But it isn't ready and the battery only had about 40% charge so it wouldn't have ended well. 
Johan
Senior Member
Wonderful job! Looking really nice.
The retracts look pretty good!
LOL. noticed the cracks in the driveway are not in scale
Thanks!
A small update, everything is done and it is ready for the maiden flight. Screws have loc-tite, the transmitter throws are programmed, everything moves properly, etc. It is balanced with a 1300mAh pack although I was expecting to use a 1000. She seems kind of heavy for the size - slightly heavier than my Mountain Models Lucky ACE but with less wing area, so I expect it'll land kind of hot but I'll deal with it.
Right now it is set up with the Orange RX and TX module for my ER9X as the only extra RX I have is the Orange 6 channel. Quite honestly I don't trust the Spektrum signal (not just Orange, but true Spektrum as well) nearly as much as the FrSky so I'll swap in a 4 channel RX for the maiden and just fly with gear down. That will take a lot of concern out of the flight for me as FrSky has been rock solid for me and I've had issues with Spektrum.
A small update, everything is done and it is ready for the maiden flight. Screws have loc-tite, the transmitter throws are programmed, everything moves properly, etc. It is balanced with a 1300mAh pack although I was expecting to use a 1000. She seems kind of heavy for the size - slightly heavier than my Mountain Models Lucky ACE but with less wing area, so I expect it'll land kind of hot but I'll deal with it.
Right now it is set up with the Orange RX and TX module for my ER9X as the only extra RX I have is the Orange 6 channel. Quite honestly I don't trust the Spektrum signal (not just Orange, but true Spektrum as well) nearly as much as the FrSky so I'll swap in a 4 channel RX for the maiden and just fly with gear down. That will take a lot of concern out of the flight for me as FrSky has been rock solid for me and I've had issues with Spektrum.
100% agree with the FrSky.
This year I've completed 569 flights (not including my indoor micro helis) in 98 hours of flight time. I'd say that 80% or more were after upgrading to FrSky.
My FrSky crashes:
A Hobby King mini P-51 which torque-rolled on take-off while I dumb-thumbed the TX. My fault.
A BH Hobbies 60" Piper Cub crashed a few times due to CoG being way too far back, followed by ESC failure from too big of a motor. My fault.
A Mountain Models Lucky ACE nosed in after I accidently hit the motor cut-off safety switch and didn't notice it. My fault.
My Orange/Spektrum crashes:
A Bixler 1.1 lost signal and nosed in on it's 3rd flight.
The Mountain Models Lucky ACE lost signal and nosed in 12" from a pond. Remarkably limited damage.
A Mountain Models Switchback lost signal and crashed.
A HZ Super Cub has hit the ground due to signal loss.
With the Orange/Spektrum I've also had numerous instances where signal is lost only to return a few seconds later. Thankfully some of those didn't result in crashes, but they convinced me to switch to FrSky. Originally I thought the Spektrum crashes were due to interference at the place I've done75% of my flying at this year, but it also happened at two other fields so I just don't trust it anymore. Heck, I don't even want to fly my Ultra Micro T-28 as I'm afraid to see it go.
This isn't meant to stir any debate on what system is best, it's just what I've experienced this year.
lonewolf7717
Senior Member
Quick!!!! give me some wood to knock on! Balsa will have to do.
To officially enter a build in this contest you need to submit a picture of the plane plus a picture of the plane actually flying. Or video.
I'll hold off on the details while the video loads, but in the meantime this picture should cover the flight shot.
Rules don't say anything about how long the flight needs to be, that you need to start and stop the flight with the same number of pieces, etc.
More info to follow.
I'll hold off on the details while the video loads, but in the meantime this picture should cover the flight shot.
Rules don't say anything about how long the flight needs to be, that you need to start and stop the flight with the same number of pieces, etc.
More info to follow.
Oh, boy. You have me nervous...
Here is the video from today's efforts. This has been a long day, so I'll provide a detailed flight report tomorrow. But now, I've got a Zero to finish up.
Scraped a wingtip? And prop! LOL!
Nice job, man! Congrats on a great looking build and a successful flyer. That has to feel great. She obviously has plenty of power. How big was your smile after all of that?
Nice job, man! Congrats on a great looking build and a successful flyer. That has to feel great. She obviously has plenty of power. How big was your smile after all of that?
Scraped a wingtip? And prop! LOL!
Nice job, man! Congrats on a great looking build and a successful flyer. That has to feel great. She obviously has plenty of power. How big was your smile after all of that?
Thanks guys. Actually it looks like t was just the wingtip, the prop never hit the ground, or at least has no visible sign at all of having done so. I think the plane was just way out of trim and I started rotating too soon which caused the wing to drop. The second flight began with a longer and faster run before I gave it some elevator.
I was so tense for these flights, and was fully prepared for an emergency grass landing. I figured the plane was so heavy I'd have to bring it in at a high rate of speed.
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Flight report -
I've been waiting for good weather to fly, and the only decent day on the radar was yesterday. It wasn't ideal, but good enough. Winds were from the south/southeast and varied in speed from 5-10mph. The "runway" is east/west with a slight bend at the western side.
Take-off was to the east as that leads directly into a very large unmowed field, reasonably good for emergency landings, and certainly better than trees or parking lot. I don't care for crosswind take-off and landing, but it is generally manageable. Landing was aiming west because it gave me a very long straight approach to work with. If I want to land aiming east I need to fly low and slow toward the hardware store, then make a 180 degree turn and line up quickly with the runway. (See picture below) I need to be on the ground relatively quickly after that so the plane has time to stop rolling before hitting a curb. Basically, this is far from an ideal place to fly but it is a mile from my house and is very open. Take off and flight is fine, landing is tricky.
On the first flight the goal was simple - don't crash. That bobbled take-off scared me a bit and the plane was a little twitchy until I got it trimmed out. I'm not sure why it did that, possibly way out of trim, maybe not enough power or speed when I gave it some elevator...? But it got airborne. I think it could use a little more nose-weight, but future flights will tell me for sure. This flight was quick, only about 4 minutes since I didn't know what to expect for power use and I wanted to have plenty of reserve in case I needed to try multiple landing approaches. I didn't touch the retracts on this flight and kept the throttle around 3/4. It's a heavy bird and knowing I had power in reserve was nice. I did some slower flight passes to get a feel for it, to see if it would drop a wing quickly, etc and found it wasn't bad at all. I've only been flying since last year, but have around 100 hours of flight this year alone on 500+ flights so I've had harder flights. But this one was mentally taxing as I had so much time and effort into the build, and had no idea what to expect from it.
The first approach was high and gave me some info on sink rate, speed, and how much power to carry. I figured I'd need a couple more passes before I was happy with the approach, but the second approach was pretty damn good so I brought it in. The video shows it landing not far from hitting a curb, but from my angle I wasn't worried. I probably should have been, but it turned out well. I had expected a much faster landing speed due to the weight of the plane, and was pleasantly surprised how well it came in. From the picture of the field you can see that it is hard to get a good straight approach due to the bend in the road right at the cul de sac. Smaller planes are fine, but bigger planes that roll a lot have been a problem.
That first flight left me with around 70% battery left. I expected it to use more, another good surprise.
The second flight started off with a much nicer take-off. I knew the plane would fly and handle well enough to let it roll further/faster before giving it some elevator to lift off. Once airborne I cycled the gear a few times. Gear up moves the CoG back slightly so the plane did respond differently. Again, a little more nose weight will be used to see if that helps. With the reduced drag from gear up it also really moved across the sky quickly. I couldn't resist doing a few loops and rolls, both of which it did without any issue. Rolls weren't axial, no surprise there, and even without much aileron movement it responds well. They were very similar to my other low-wing planes. To this point I've only been flying it as bank & yank, so I don't know yet how much rudder authority it has.
Landing on the second flight wasn't quite as nice as the first flight, it was a two-hopper. Neither hop was big, but it did pitch up enough to drag the tail skid on one of them. I'm glad I added that piece!
Ground handling is a mixed bag. It steers well and has enough nose weight to force the plane to steer properly, but the wing gear is farther forward than ideal so if the tail were pushed down it would stay down and not drop back onto all three wheels. That's why I added the wire tail-skid. I don't know if it's visible in the video or the latest pictures, but I don't really want it too visible. It's just a safety device to keep the tail safe.
If I were to do it again (and I might) I would either go with fixed gear or with lighter weight retracts. These were big and heavy, but they worked and fit into my budget.
For transmitter programming I set up 25-30% expo on both high and low rates. Ailerons were programmed to give me maximum travel on high rates and slightly less on low. With the way I installed the servo and pushrods I wasn't expecting the ailerons to have a lot of authority, but am happy with how well they actually work. I'll reduce the throws for low-rates slightly and will leave hgh-rates at full throw. Elevator throws were a complete guess but I guessed well enough for stable flight. Rudder was left as full throw on both high and low for a couple reasons. First, I'm still not big into using the rudder, but I needed the steering ability on the ground, and full throw gives me about ideal steering. Also, there is a clearance issue between the rudder and elevator. I could get more throw out of the rudder but it would hit the elevator (the joy of adapting control line plans that didn't account for rudder movement!). I didn't notice this until the tail was assembled. Oops. The FrSky receiver and module in my ER9X worked perfectly and took all the worry out of that part of the flight for me. It isn't an $18,000 high-end system, but it's been rock solid for me and I can't say enough good things about it (it replaced a Spektrum system that was replaced for a reason).
So as a final note on the flights, I was very happy with how it all turned out. Honestly I had started the day expecting an emergency grass landing. The heavy plane, unknown issues from the design, etc were all weighing heavy on my mind for the past few months. Plus my dad made a 6 hour round trip to watch and video the flights for me and I hate to waste his time (although he is building a contest plane as well and really wanted to be part of the maiden). I would certainly do things differently were I to build this plane again, but as it is, I'm happy.
Thanks everybody for following along with the build and providing encouragement and help along the way. I'll continue to update this build thread as warranted.
I've been waiting for good weather to fly, and the only decent day on the radar was yesterday. It wasn't ideal, but good enough. Winds were from the south/southeast and varied in speed from 5-10mph. The "runway" is east/west with a slight bend at the western side.
Take-off was to the east as that leads directly into a very large unmowed field, reasonably good for emergency landings, and certainly better than trees or parking lot. I don't care for crosswind take-off and landing, but it is generally manageable. Landing was aiming west because it gave me a very long straight approach to work with. If I want to land aiming east I need to fly low and slow toward the hardware store, then make a 180 degree turn and line up quickly with the runway. (See picture below) I need to be on the ground relatively quickly after that so the plane has time to stop rolling before hitting a curb. Basically, this is far from an ideal place to fly but it is a mile from my house and is very open. Take off and flight is fine, landing is tricky.
On the first flight the goal was simple - don't crash. That bobbled take-off scared me a bit and the plane was a little twitchy until I got it trimmed out. I'm not sure why it did that, possibly way out of trim, maybe not enough power or speed when I gave it some elevator...? But it got airborne. I think it could use a little more nose-weight, but future flights will tell me for sure. This flight was quick, only about 4 minutes since I didn't know what to expect for power use and I wanted to have plenty of reserve in case I needed to try multiple landing approaches. I didn't touch the retracts on this flight and kept the throttle around 3/4. It's a heavy bird and knowing I had power in reserve was nice. I did some slower flight passes to get a feel for it, to see if it would drop a wing quickly, etc and found it wasn't bad at all. I've only been flying since last year, but have around 100 hours of flight this year alone on 500+ flights so I've had harder flights. But this one was mentally taxing as I had so much time and effort into the build, and had no idea what to expect from it.
The first approach was high and gave me some info on sink rate, speed, and how much power to carry. I figured I'd need a couple more passes before I was happy with the approach, but the second approach was pretty damn good so I brought it in. The video shows it landing not far from hitting a curb, but from my angle I wasn't worried. I probably should have been, but it turned out well. I had expected a much faster landing speed due to the weight of the plane, and was pleasantly surprised how well it came in. From the picture of the field you can see that it is hard to get a good straight approach due to the bend in the road right at the cul de sac. Smaller planes are fine, but bigger planes that roll a lot have been a problem.
That first flight left me with around 70% battery left. I expected it to use more, another good surprise.
The second flight started off with a much nicer take-off. I knew the plane would fly and handle well enough to let it roll further/faster before giving it some elevator to lift off. Once airborne I cycled the gear a few times. Gear up moves the CoG back slightly so the plane did respond differently. Again, a little more nose weight will be used to see if that helps. With the reduced drag from gear up it also really moved across the sky quickly. I couldn't resist doing a few loops and rolls, both of which it did without any issue. Rolls weren't axial, no surprise there, and even without much aileron movement it responds well. They were very similar to my other low-wing planes. To this point I've only been flying it as bank & yank, so I don't know yet how much rudder authority it has.
Landing on the second flight wasn't quite as nice as the first flight, it was a two-hopper. Neither hop was big, but it did pitch up enough to drag the tail skid on one of them. I'm glad I added that piece!
Ground handling is a mixed bag. It steers well and has enough nose weight to force the plane to steer properly, but the wing gear is farther forward than ideal so if the tail were pushed down it would stay down and not drop back onto all three wheels. That's why I added the wire tail-skid. I don't know if it's visible in the video or the latest pictures, but I don't really want it too visible. It's just a safety device to keep the tail safe.
If I were to do it again (and I might) I would either go with fixed gear or with lighter weight retracts. These were big and heavy, but they worked and fit into my budget.
For transmitter programming I set up 25-30% expo on both high and low rates. Ailerons were programmed to give me maximum travel on high rates and slightly less on low. With the way I installed the servo and pushrods I wasn't expecting the ailerons to have a lot of authority, but am happy with how well they actually work. I'll reduce the throws for low-rates slightly and will leave hgh-rates at full throw. Elevator throws were a complete guess but I guessed well enough for stable flight. Rudder was left as full throw on both high and low for a couple reasons. First, I'm still not big into using the rudder, but I needed the steering ability on the ground, and full throw gives me about ideal steering. Also, there is a clearance issue between the rudder and elevator. I could get more throw out of the rudder but it would hit the elevator (the joy of adapting control line plans that didn't account for rudder movement!). I didn't notice this until the tail was assembled. Oops.
The FrSky receiver and module in my ER9X worked perfectly and took all the worry out of that part of the flight for me. It isn't an $18,000 high-end system, but it's been rock solid for me and I can't say enough good things about it (it replaced a Spektrum system that was replaced for a reason).So as a final note on the flights, I was very happy with how it all turned out. Honestly I had started the day expecting an emergency grass landing. The heavy plane, unknown issues from the design, etc were all weighing heavy on my mind for the past few months. Plus my dad made a 6 hour round trip to watch and video the flights for me and I hate to waste his time (although he is building a contest plane as well and really wanted to be part of the maiden). I would certainly do things differently were I to build this plane again, but as it is, I'm happy.
Thanks everybody for following along with the build and providing encouragement and help along the way. I'll continue to update this build thread as warranted.
Nice job, Joker. Best of luck with the contest. I'd vote for your plane!
Thanks. I'm not expecting to win anything, as there are some extremely talented people out there. My dad had a friend decades ago who used to build extremely realistic planes. I remember a Cessna he was building that had a fully detailed interior - detailed to the point where the seats were padded, folded forward like the full-size for rear seat access. He was nationally known for his work for good reason.
It would be a shame for some idiot like me to get my hands on a model like that! LOL
Since the plane has been officially entered in the contest and I know it flies, most of the pressure of flying it is off. After the first couple of quick flights I found that it flew OK, but was a little squirrelly in the turns. I figured it needed a little extra nose weight so I stuck a few extra grams next to the motor. I didn't want to go too heavy with it since the plane was already heavy enough and I wasn't positive that was the issue.
Today I took the Navion and my Airfield 800mm Zero out to the park, the first time the Navion has been out to play in a few weeks. I didn't go to the "park" mentioned above (the cul-de-sac behind the WalMart) as I really dislike landing planes with gear there due to the curbs. If it weren't for those curbs it'd be perfect - a huge open field with a paved runway. I headed back to the place I've flown hundreds of flights at this year, a local park that is under construction. Until recently it has been the perfect place, just a big open field with a big parking lot. No traffic at all as there wasn't anything there to attract people. Then the city went and built lighted baseball diamonds and ruined it... There is still room to fly, as long as I stay above the light poles or in the remaining open areas. There is still no traffic there as it's too cold to play baseball, so I still have the run of the place. The big open parking lots are great runways, much better than by WalMart, but next year there will be too many people around to fly there.
Up first was the Navion.
The extra nose weight really seemed to do the trick as the turns were much smoother and less stressful. The only thing I don't care for regarding the flight characteristics is that it is a bit top heavy due to the heavy canopy construction. Once trimmed out it will still start to bank left or right easily from the wind, more easily than my other planes. It isn't a big deal and it's easy to correct, but I can't really take my eyes off for a second unless I've got a lot of altitude.
So I flew it around for a while and cycled the retracts a few times. Barrel rolls and loops were no problem with 3/4 or more throttle. Rudder has plenty of authority. Overall, a decent flying plane that looks good in the air.
Previous landings were a bit scary due to the potential destruction the curbs offered. Today it was no problem at all. A nice big loop past the end of the parking lot, a 180 degree turn back for approach, and drop the throttle to about 30% and in she comes for a one-hop landing. The approach didn't cause any extra stress with a wing dropping, as I was extra watchful and making constant corrections anyway.
Upon removal of the battery I noticed that my battery tray had broken loose, so there went my chance to fly it some more. It'll be a 5 minute fix and there was no damage other than the tray coming lose so I'll still chalk this up as a successful flight. Weather over the next few days appears decent so I'll hopefully get some more stick time with it.
Today I took the Navion and my Airfield 800mm Zero out to the park, the first time the Navion has been out to play in a few weeks. I didn't go to the "park" mentioned above (the cul-de-sac behind the WalMart) as I really dislike landing planes with gear there due to the curbs. If it weren't for those curbs it'd be perfect - a huge open field with a paved runway. I headed back to the place I've flown hundreds of flights at this year, a local park that is under construction. Until recently it has been the perfect place, just a big open field with a big parking lot. No traffic at all as there wasn't anything there to attract people. Then the city went and built lighted baseball diamonds and ruined it... There is still room to fly, as long as I stay above the light poles or in the remaining open areas. There is still no traffic there as it's too cold to play baseball, so I still have the run of the place. The big open parking lots are great runways, much better than by WalMart, but next year there will be too many people around to fly there.
Up first was the Navion.
The extra nose weight really seemed to do the trick as the turns were much smoother and less stressful. The only thing I don't care for regarding the flight characteristics is that it is a bit top heavy due to the heavy canopy construction. Once trimmed out it will still start to bank left or right easily from the wind, more easily than my other planes. It isn't a big deal and it's easy to correct, but I can't really take my eyes off for a second unless I've got a lot of altitude.
So I flew it around for a while and cycled the retracts a few times. Barrel rolls and loops were no problem with 3/4 or more throttle. Rudder has plenty of authority. Overall, a decent flying plane that looks good in the air.
Previous landings were a bit scary due to the potential destruction the curbs offered. Today it was no problem at all. A nice big loop past the end of the parking lot, a 180 degree turn back for approach, and drop the throttle to about 30% and in she comes for a one-hop landing. The approach didn't cause any extra stress with a wing dropping, as I was extra watchful and making constant corrections anyway.
Upon removal of the battery I noticed that my battery tray had broken loose, so there went my chance to fly it some more. It'll be a 5 minute fix and there was no damage other than the tray coming lose so I'll still chalk this up as a successful flight. Weather over the next few days appears decent so I'll hopefully get some more stick time with it.
