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Pumpkin drop event

New Hexacopter.... Which one??

#1
Hi there everyone,
I am looking at a new racing hex. Nothing like the gemini by Team Black Sheep. I want to built it my self and have been looking for new frames. I previously built a Tri-copter and that went amazingly. the first was a bat bone with the old moved to the HJ-Y3. And guys, if you're looking for a decent tricopter i seriously recommend this machine because it is fabulous to fly. Look on ebay for the smaller version and use the top end of the recommended parts and boy it goes. But having done this i wish to step up a little. By 3 motors!

Anyway, I have seen the blackout mini spider hex and I have seen the pats mini wasp hex and the wasp hex at rotor geeks.
I am just torn for choice. Which one do i chose? I want a frame and if possible a list of recommended parts and at best an ARF bundle like in the Blackout mini spider hex. Gives me six motor speed controllers and the frame for $599.

If you guys could help me chose a hex then that would be great because i am still relatively new to the multirotor side of rc and i have never flown a copter over 3 motors.

Thanks for your help
Pezzer
 
#2
Hi there everyone,
I am looking at a new racing hex. Nothing like the gemini by Team Black Sheep. I want to built it my self and have been looking for new frames. I previously built a Tri-copter and that went amazingly. the first was a bat bone with the old moved to the HJ-Y3. And guys, if you're looking for a decent tricopter i seriously recommend this machine because it is fabulous to fly. Look on ebay for the smaller version and use the top end of the recommended parts and boy it goes. But having done this i wish to step up a little. By 3 motors!

Anyway, I have seen the blackout mini spider hex and I have seen the pats mini wasp hex and the wasp hex at rotor geeks.
I am just torn for choice. Which one do i chose? I want a frame and if possible a list of recommended parts and at best an ARF bundle like in the Blackout mini spider hex. Gives me six motor speed controllers and the frame for $599.

If you guys could help me chose a hex then that would be great because i am still relatively new to the multirotor side of rc and i have never flown a copter over 3 motors.

Thanks for your help
Pezzer
Have you thought about getting a quad?

They are a bit cheap than hexs and are the go to for racing at the moment.
 
#4
Have you thought about getting a quad?

They are a bit cheap than hexs and are the go to for racing at the moment.
I have thought about a quad, but I like the look of the hex's and I would like to try something a little different first I think.
 

PHugger

Church Meal Expert
#5
My current build project (slooooow) is a Blackout Hex. The frame was a Father's Day gift and I'm still waiting on a few part to arrive. I can't comment on much other than it looks Very nice - high quality everywhere. Hopefully I'll get it in the air this fall. I just started FPV on my Wifflecopter and hopefully I won't bash the Hex up too much on it's first few flights. There is something very appealing about these little monsters. I completely understand your Hex-jones.


Best regards,
PCH
 
#6
Yeah thanks or that. That looks pretty good.
Its not only the price tag though. I am looking for reliability also. Do you know much about the hex from rctimers? Is it worth buying? being fairly cheap. I mean Blackout frames are $200 and this is over half the price of that??! So questions are raised-- is blackout ripping me off, Is rc timers selling me a duff? Can anyone shed light on the vast difference in price?

I am not being sceptical towards new frame ideas as it is one to add to the deciding list, but trying to understand things so that i buy the right one..

Thanks guys, Huge help so far...
 

PHugger

Church Meal Expert
#7
Best is relative and elusive.
If you truly needed the best, you wouldn't really need our recommendations.
A some point good enough is good enough. There are a lot of choices that are good enough.
The multirotors that are are available today are IMHO pretty good no matter what you buy (excluding junk).
I think the frame is one of the least differentiating feature. There are lots of other bits that will make or break a build.
Like every other technology, as soon as you get your Best, it will be superseded and you will be behind again.
Jump in the pool and have fun. Don't worry about your bathing suit and be content that you are wet...... (c8



Best regards,
PCH
 

Robbie

Senior Member
#8
Hi there everyone,
I am looking at a new racing hex. Nothing like the gemini by Team Black Sheep. I want to built it my self and have been looking for new frames. I previously built a Tri-copter and that went amazingly. the first was a bat bone with the old moved to the HJ-Y3. And guys, if you're looking for a decent tricopter i seriously recommend this machine because it is fabulous to fly. Look on ebay for the smaller version and use the top end of the recommended parts and boy it goes. But having done this i wish to step up a little. By 3 motors!

Anyway, I have seen the blackout mini spider hex and I have seen the pats mini wasp hex and the wasp hex at rotor geeks.
I am just torn for choice. Which one do i chose? I want a frame and if possible a list of recommended parts and at best an ARF bundle like in the Blackout mini spider hex. Gives me six motor speed controllers and the frame for $599.

If you guys could help me chose a hex then that would be great because i am still relatively new to the multirotor side of rc and i have never flown a copter over 3 motors.

Thanks for your help
Pezzer
Dont buy a hex especailly as you haven't built a quad. Spend half the money and build a Quad because they are:
  • Cheaper
  • Easier to fly
  • faster (arguably)
  • more maneuverable
  • cheaper repairs
  • you can get higher quality componants for same price as low cost hex componants purly because of the extra number
  • SOOOOO much more efficient than hexs
  • more fun, have flown both, a hex is mostly down right scary to fly, while a quad you know what it is going to do and you feel safer pushing it and trying fun maneuvers
  • less likley to break, a lot of the best quad frames such as the blackout, ZMR and alien ar desined so well arm breaks are pretty rare, the same can not be said for most hexs
  • Unnecessary the beauty of hexs and octos for AP is that if one motor fails you can still get it home, this is unnecarry for racing.

My friend Ocean built a hex (which i flew quite a bit) and from one it was an absolute pain in the arse, in the end the tood the componants were left of the disaster and put them on a mini quad, he is a lot happier with that.

Robbie
 
#9
Ok then thanks,
I dont want the best I just want one good enough and i think that you are right PCH. I will further check the motors that come with the frames and the other bits and pieces so that they are good stock.

Many thanks
Pezzer
 

PHugger

Church Meal Expert
#10
Dont buy a hex especailly as you haven't built a quad. Spend half the money and build a Quad because they are:
  • Cheaper
  • Easier to fly
  • faster (arguably)
  • more maneuverable
  • cheaper repairs
  • you can get higher quality componants for same price as low cost hex componants purly because of the extra number
  • SOOOOO much more efficient than hexs
  • more fun, have flown both, a hex is mostly down right scary to fly, while a quad you know what it is going to do and you feel safer pushing it and trying fun maneuvers
  • less likley to break, a lot of the best quad frames such as the blackout, ZMR and alien ar desined so well arm breaks are pretty rare, the same can not be said for most hexs
  • Unnecessary the beauty of hexs and octos for AP is that if one motor fails you can still get it home, this is unnecarry for racing.

My friend Ocean built a hex (which i flew quite a bit) and from one it was an absolute pain in the arse, in the end the tood the componants were left of the disaster and put them on a mini quad, he is a lot happier with that.

Robbie
Some of your points are Very subjective Robbie. There are other equally subjective reasons to go Hex.
Your Objective points are well taken. Look at the recent Nationals. Nobody flew a Hex. The winner (FGA) didn't fly a Brick style quad (like a Blackout 250) that are so popular now. If you thought your 250 racer was the best - boom. You just got left behind. Some people (myself certainly) are less interested in racing. Maybe that will change, but for now that isn't on my radar. Contentment comes in all shapes and sizes.

Thiis was MD's old BO Hex (I wouldn't call 78mph exactly slow)-
Screen Shot 08-20-15 at 01.58 PM.JPG




Best regards,
PCH
 

jipp

Senior Member
#11
to be fair i bet fga could win flying a brick.. so who knows how much was the frame, and not the pilots skill ( and maybe a bit of luck.. since what i read/saw in the videos on youtube... the reception suck so some just did flips when they could of been racing ). :D

just being objective :D heh. or maybe argumentative, shrugs. either way i get what you are saying tho i think :p

chris.
 
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Cyberdactyl

Misfit Multirotor Monkey
#12
Yeah thanks or that. That looks pretty good.
Its not only the price tag though. I am looking for reliability also. Do you know much about the hex from rctimers? Is it worth buying? being fairly cheap. I mean Blackout frames are $200 and this is over half the price of that??! So questions are raised-- is blackout ripping me off, Is rc timers selling me a duff? Can anyone shed light on the vast difference in price?

I am not being sceptical towards new frame ideas as it is one to add to the deciding list, but trying to understand things so that i buy the right one..

Thanks guys, Huge help so far...
I don't want to start a raging debate, but IMHO many of the 'elite' mini racing frames, those that exceed ~$140, are over-priced.

Now. . hold on. . .I do realize an argument can be made for using a better quality carbon fiber, but that can only go so far. Virtually all mini frames on the market are cut plate of various configurations. And some actually do add to their outrageous pricing by integrating a good quality distribution board and thicker 4 or 5mm booms. But again, all are based around simply cutting plate, whether that plate is CF, G10, glass laminate or HDPE. Granted there are a few that do offer something other than cut plate like tube booms. Even one of the more radical looking mini, the TBS Gemini hex, is cut plate at its core.

I believe an excellent performing 'mini racer' comes down to many variables, but there are three that overwhelmingly lead the others. A high percentage in the overall 'pie chart' is flying skill, ESCs and the FCB/tuning. The rest. . .motors, props, frame, Vtx, camera, Rx, battery, etc. are parts to wisely consider, but fall well within the shadow of the first three.
 

Robbie

Senior Member
#13
ok sorry i am pretty anti hexs, i just saw how ocean went form flushed with cashed to barly being able to afford a mini quad in a few short weeks because of his disasterous hex.

I just can't understand why you want a hex over a mini quad
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
#14
. Even one of the more radical looking mini, the TBS Gemini hex, is cut plate at its core.
Just have to point out....the Gemini not only isn't CF it's not just cut plate. It's a formed piece of G10 that makes up the main frame and arms. It's not flat - there are twists integrated into the design.

It's not a full 3D layup but it's far from just flat plate. Heck it even has circuit traces integrated into it (which is part of why it's G10 and not CF, lot harder to embed circuits into a conductive base like CF!) Even so they managed to keep the cost of the base frame at $40.

I'm tempted to agree that prices are somewhat inflated on some of the high end frames. But having been involved in helping Twitchity with his frames I know first hand how difficult it is to source high quality CF at a decent price...and how much expense goes into development. With that knowledge I have a very hard time considering a frame like a warp or blackout to be overpriced. It's hard to find equal quality raw materials at the same price. Add in the costs of tooling in the machining process (even if you're "just cutting plate" CF tears through cutting tools fast and if you want quality cuts you have to replace them frequently) and in the material used in developing a quality design....yeah...I really can't fault them for their prices.

Now guys who just duplicate an existing design and don't worry about top quality materials...there's no reason for that stuff to be expensive. But you definitely do get what you pay for. I've learned first hand what can happen if you end up with a bad batch of CF.
 

Cyberdactyl

Misfit Multirotor Monkey
#15
I would agree the Gemini is one that justifies, as close as any, to its price point. But as I said, 'at its core' it's cut plate. But yes, it takes the plate as close to the next level as anyone with some minor form shaping and embedded traces.

But don't misunderstand. I support Thielicke's attempt to evolve the mini racer. I think he is one of the few developers that are actually trying to move past the flat plate mindset. My only issue with the Gemini is why TBS and William decided on a hex and why they still want to stick with flat plate booms, when they went to all the trouble of streamlining the body?

That said, I still have mixed feelings TBS and their Youtube antics. I believe they hurt the perception of multirotors as much as anyone.

 

jipp

Senior Member
#16
yeah unfortunately that new York fly by did no good for us in the long run i think.. but what the hell, who am i to judge.
chris.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
#17
I've been wanting to weigh in on the hex vs. quad debate here but have been kind of busy the past few days.

I've got a couple of quads (man these things just seem to multiply once you get more than 2!) and a hex. The hex is by far the nicest of all the multirotors I have. It's got the best motors, the best ESC's, the nicest FPV cam, and IMHO the best FC. But despite that it's not my favorite.

Part of that is because it's so nice I'm half scared to fly it. There's just so much money in that thing that I can't relax and enjoy it. But It's also just not as much fun as my quads. And even though the hex is by far the most powerful - it doesn't feel nearly as "sporty" in the air.

The only reason I'd build another hex was if I was building an aerial video platform and didn't have the funds to do an octo but wanted more stability and resilience than a quad. They just feel like a compromise in other words - like an overbuilt quad or an underbuilt octo more than their own thing.

Quads are simpler, cheaper and more fun in the air for acrobatics and racing style flying. They just are. Even with more powerful motors my hex just doesn't feel as zippy in the air as my quads.

My honest advice to anyone considering a hex is to ask yourself what kind of flying you really want to do. If it's fast acro/racing you're after...you're not stepping down by going to a quad you'll be much happier with 4 motors instead of 6. And if you're looking for a stable video platform that can loose an arm and stay in the air...you're compromising by not adding 2 more motors - you'd be better off stepping up and adding them.

If you just think hexes look cool and want one because of that...hey, can't fault you it's your money your choice!
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding faceplant!
Mentor
#18
Hexes are like a Corvette. Great in a straight line run or gentle curves. It beats a quad in the straightaways but the quad wins in tight turns.

Only do a hex if you have the money. Crashes cost double.

Hexes are more aerobatic than you think. You have to get the rates up. When you do, they are graceful and elegant flyers with a little extra room and some redundancy. Barrel rolls with a tricopter or a hex are just gorgeous.

A little over a year ago I was asking someone on these forums why a BO mini-hex. His answer was that he was having a ball with it. Now that I own two I concur. They are a complete kick in the pants to fly. There really is no practical use, but they are fun.

My WarpQuad is my GoTo copter. But my 330mm Twitchity Hexes are durable, fast and a truckload of fun to fly too. I enjoy the extra work they require and I have the cash for parts.

I mean, seriously, who wouldn't want to fly this?

P4080005.JPG

Or this?
P2170002.JPG
 

Cyberdactyl

Misfit Multirotor Monkey
#19
I still fly my modified cyberhex every few days. It's getting a little old. But yea, they have nice power, yet it still doesn't have the zippiness, maneuverability or top end speed of my mini. I've repaired it about six times now. Although half the repairs have been reattaching the plywood landing legs.

I've found when loosing one motor, I don't get anything like full control, but it does allow me to basically soft crash it in the general area of my choosing. Loosing a motor on a quad or a tri, it's a crash of its place and choosing. :p

I keep wanting to fully fill the pultruded 10mm square CF rods with dowel, because even minor crashes will make them split. I have them filled at the frame for clamping resistance strength and never have a problem there, but out near the motor they are hollow. I suspect if they were filled the entire length, I would have no problems.

One tip that should be added to the 'multirotor tips' thread if not there, is the long term use of zip ties. Meaning, they should be replaced around every 25 hours of flying or so, or around 150 flights, especially if you use the smaller 3mm wide ones intended to tear free in a crash. Ties will very slowly stretch and become loose. A couple of my crashes have been from ignoring that little issue.

But as you all say, there is something kind of magically different flying six or more motors. :rolleyes:

 

jipp

Senior Member
#20
I still fly my modified cyberhex every few days. It's getting a little old. But yea, they have nice power, yet it still doesn't have the zippiness, maneuverability or top end speed of my mini. I've repaired it about six times now. Although half the repairs have been reattaching the plywood landing legs.

I've found when loosing one motor, I don't get anything like full control, but it does allow me to basically soft crash it in the general area of my choosing. Loosing a motor on a quad or a tri, it's a crash of its place and choosing. :p

I keep wanting to fully fill the pultruded 10mm square CF rods with dowel, because even minor crashes will make them split. I have them filled at the frame for clamping resistance strength and never have a problem there, but out near the motor they are hollow. I suspect if they were filled the entire length, I would have no problems.

One tip that should be added to the 'multirotor tips' thread if not there, is the long term use of zip ties. Meaning, they should be replaced around every 25 hours of flying or so, or around 150 flights, especially if you use the smaller 3mm wide ones intended to tear free in a crash. Ties will very slowly stretch and become loose. A couple of my crashes have been from ignoring that little issue.

But as you all say, there is something kind of magically different flying six or more motors. :rolleyes:

so when you lose a motor, you do not really have control? just a fast decent down with a bit of control?/ so you can not stay up if you lose a motor i guess im asking.

chris.