Noob needs help with an "anycopter" octo

[octodreamerFNG]

As someone who has spent more years building and flying large and medium power rockets and has a good friend who currently builds them for the government....

You're right. But not in the way you think.

Rocket Science is easy compared to building a large heavy lift multicopter and learning to pilot it FPV.

It's also easier from a legal standpoint in the US but that's another topic.


What you're talking about is diving right into the deep end when you haven't even dipped your toe in the shallow water. Heck you haven't even got your swimsuit on yet


I'm working on my 4th build right now am still taking it step by step - getting it flying reliably without FPV first. Once it's locked in and reliable I'll be adding GPS to assist me with FPV flying but GPS is never something to rely on, it's like a rear windshield wiper on a car - kind of nice to have in some circumstances but there's a reason most cars don't bother to include it and not having it won't keep you from driving. Heck I'm not even putting my FPV gear on just yet since I'm still dialing things in and flying FPV basically resets your experience back to level 1 or 2 to put it in gamer terms

There are a lot of skills to learn and master if you're going to make a business out of this. As with any skills that takes time, dedication and a willingness to fail as you progress. Right now it sounds like you're in pretty deep denial about dealing with the inevitable failures and not interested in putting in the time. I strongly suggest you re-read some of the great advice here and take it to heart. This is a long hard road that can be pretty rough at times - but there are great rewards if you stick it through. If you try to avoid the road chances are you'll either take a much longer and more expensive path to those rewards or you'll never find your way to them.

This is meant to be motivational rather than dire sounding...but my wife tells me my attempts to encourage her at things are demotivating so I should probably just shut up now

:applause:

i get it, i really do, and again i fully intend on putting this thing through it's paces before i go tooling off down the street at 400 feet... i've got a huge backyard for basic tests (7 acres, mostly tall grass) and i'm way the hell out in farm country.

when i need more room, there's a 10 field soccer "complex" down the road a ways that is going to be perfect on days it's not in use.

so i build a quad, and i crash it... the world keeps spinning and i learned something.

so lets accept the fact that i'm crashing this thing right after i build it... can we get to the part where i buy the right parts so they don't meltdown when i power it on?



anyone got a link to a good ardupilot H quad build that worked?

If you are really serious about learning, but you also really want to have a gimbal right away, I would look at the TBS Discovery frame with a gimbal. Something like that:

View attachment 31184

I really personally like the look of those frames, and they fly really nice. And, they do look "professional," so you can play the part when you sell your business to people. Plus it's a popular frame, so a lot of people list their flight times and configs for those frames. So you can easily pickup a list of parts you need.

While your waiting for your parts to arrive, pickup a Proto X miniquad from amazon or something. It's the best $40 you will spend at the beginning of this hobby. You may not believe me, but flying that little Proto X around your house will prepare you well for taking the real thing for a spin, honestly.

The rest, people gave you some good recommendations. Buy a good charger, a lipo charge bag (lipo batteries are dangerous), a Radio system like 9X with a FrSky module for instance, and a good soldering iron. Research you FPV options. For board camera I use 600TLV, and it works well. I use Fatshark gear for FPV, but if I was to buy my gear all over again, I would buy something else to be honest. Long range FPV isn't necessary, 5Ghz gear with proper antennas should take you as far as your 2.4Ghz controller will. Later on you can upgrade to UHF, which has it's pluses and minuses. I do not know much about UHF, but it's not something you need to video a golf course any way.

As for FC as I mentioned, you need either Ardupilot or DJI. Do some more research and make your choice there. That's about it. Good luck, and post your build. If you come up with a parts list of stuff you researched and liked, I am sure people will chime in and give you more recommendations.

wow, homerun.

this is exactly what i was looking for THANK YOU.

i'll spend the night looking into everything you recommended, and i'll post the build list ASAP, will appreciate more input when i get there.

 

[nitsuj]

so i build a quad, and i crash it... the world keeps spinning and i learned something.

so lets accept the fact that i'm crashing this thing right after i build it... can we get to the part where i buy the right parts so they don't meltdown when i power it on?

You should really be listening to the advice you're getting from some very experienced people. You said yourself this whole idea is only a week old. You also mentioned earlier in the thread that you're playing with someone else's money? Wouldn't it be irresponsible of you to take that money, buy something over your head and crash your brains out? You seem to realize that you will crash, and you seem ok with it. Which is cool. But that's not a successful business plan. Take $2000 of someone else's money, spend it on something you have very little understanding of, get a machine you can't fly, then crash it and have to spend more money to fix or replace it. If you can't fly it well enough to get decent composition and video, no one will pay you for your finished product. You seem determined to do this, and you're getting good advice, but you're choosing to only listen to the advice you like. I wish you all the luck in the world, but very few successful business start out with $2000 seed money, zero skills, and a weeks worth of YouTube experience.

 

[Tritium]

I thought it very plain from the link I posted for professional systems. Study and Copy a PRO system if you have to build it yourself. Look around at all the Pro and Semi-Pro systems. Look at the parts they use and COPY the one you like or a compilation of the systems you like!!! Those systems will teach you what ESC, Motor, Prop, Frame, Battery, Ancillary Equipment and Flight Controller combinations WORK. I learn from others successes and mistakes. It is cheaper and less painful!

On another note the FAA won't buy your argument about your editing services being for sale rather than the images. It's a nice thought and I would love to make money from this hobby too but not at the risk of being dragged into court and ruining my families financial present and future.

Thurmond

 

[octodreamerFNG]

You should really be listening to the advice you're getting from some very experienced people. You said yourself this whole idea is only a week old. You also mentioned earlier in the thread that you're playing with someone else's money? Wouldn't it be irresponsible of you to take that money, buy something over your head and crash your brains out? You seem to realize that you will crash, and you seem ok with it. Which is cool. But that's not a successful business plan. Take $2000 of someone else's money, spend it on something you have very little understanding of, get a machine you can't fly, then crash it and have to spend more money to fix or replace it. If you can't fly it well enough to get decent composition and video, no one will pay you for your finished product. You seem determined to do this, and you're getting good advice, but you're choosing to only listen to the advice you like. I wish you all the luck in the world, but very few successful business start out with $2000 seed money, zero skills, and a weeks worth of YouTube experience.

so i should start the business with something that does none of what i will need it for in the business?

he wants the multi-rotor, i'm the only person he trusts to put it together.

it would be more irresponsible of me to give him no advice, or help, and just let him go make a bad decision on the product that will work best for what we plan to do with it.

the fact that i'm even here, asking to build something nice that is customizable and upgradable, rather than buy a phantom...

doesn't that count for anything?

can't you give me the benefit of doubt that would someone coming here for informed opinions would be responsible enough to do this in a safe manner?

it's just confusing that you're on a forum that exists because of the excellent quality of it's youtube video's, telling someone they aren't qualified because they watched those video's to get informed?

if it pertained to muli-rotors or FPV i watched it, twice. i could follow 3 year old advice without looking for updated information... but i guess that would make me the irresponsible guy you already think i am.

i marathoned 4 years worth of video's, i'm trying to learn as much as possible and do this right... did i come to the wrong place?

there's no real reason i can't build something cool and learn on it if i follow the advice given on the same video's that brought me here (probably the same video's that brought you here) and get advice from the people who are here for the same reasons i am.

I thought it very plain from the link I posted for professional systems. Study and Copy a PRO system if you have to build it yourself. Look around at all the Pro and Semi-Pro systems. Look at the parts they use and COPY the one you like or a compilation of the systems you like!!! Those systems will teach you what ESC, Motor, Prop, Frame, Battery, Ancillary Equipment and Flight Controller combinations WORK. I learn from others successes and mistakes. It is cheaper and less painful!

On another note the FAA won't buy your argument about your editing services being for sale rather than the images. It's a nice thought and I would love to make money from this hobby too but not at the risk of being dragged into court and ruining my families financial present and future.

Thurmond

commercial products are usually the best attempt at a "one size fits all" solution that is marketable and mostly profitable. finding something that exactly matches my wants and needs is probably a long shot. not looking to "settle" for something close. if i can build the exact thing i want, with better parts, for less money, i think that would be my best overall option.

the problem i'm having here, is when i watch a video on how to build an H frame multirotor from someone who's info i trust (flitetest video's) that information isn't always the most up-to-date info out there.

if i was buying a new car, i wouldn't look at car reviews from 2 years ago.

so here i am asking for the most recent information... again... trying to do the responsible thing.

and as far as the FAA goes i guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. i've spoken to a number of people who do this for a living and that is exactly how they do it.

i'm a video and image editor, it's part of my livelyhood, it's none of the federal governments business where i get my stock footage from if that person didn't charge me anything for it.

 

[evan]

Hey there, just wanted to comment on something that was in your original specs but seemed to fall out of the conversation.

Bottom line is that adding batteries does not linearly increase flight time. At some point, for any given frame, the extra capacity of the battery will be offset by the fact that more has to be expended to carry the extra weight of the batteries. Lucien Miller, an RC expert at Innov8tive Designs and All Things That Fly goes in to this in one of the All Things That Fly podcasts. Sorry I don't know which one, it's buried in one of the hours and hours of shows they have.

Anyway, just wanted to point that out if it had been an expectation. Long flight times, especially with a significant payload like a camera, will take significant design work, and having the most motors isn't a magic bullet. Yeah it'll be more powerful, but it uses more energy to be more powerful, so it could end up being a wash.

Might be a moot point if you, go with the excellent Discovery quad, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Well guys, this has been a busy day.

I think pretty much all of the advice that FNG could get that he will listen to has been offered here.

On that note I think I'll close the thread before it gets redundant, or worse.

Thanks to all of the people who shared very good advice.

FNG, please let us know what you ended up purchasing, and how it's working out for you.