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#1
I'm having a lot of difficulty with my slender delta scratch build, and I've received much help that I am truly grateful , and a couple others have deiced to try to build and test the design as well, which is awesome. On the other hand, its going to be a real challenge to get it to fly, and it is a particularly difficult type of scratch build to start with as a beginner. I'm looking at some other options on the side, more of a backup plan, if the slender delta isn't going to be feasible.

The first option I'm exploring is a simple tandem wing plane using my A power pack. Something like this would be perfect.
 

BATTLEAXE

Well-known member
#2
Welcome to the forums. Do you have any pics of the delta? What are the issues you are having, is it in the build or the flight? Are you a beginner in the hobby or just the building? Might need some more info to help you out my friend.

One guy who has done more delta's then you can count is @Vimana89, he would be the guy to ask. He would be more then happy to help I am sure
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#3
You've already gotten some help here on this forum? And I missed a new slender delta fan? I'll have to check back through some posts and see what you are working with so far if you've shared anything, but...what are the odds that you'd want to build the exact two types of planes I wanted to design early on(slender delta and tandem wing)😆. It's been a while since I've attempted a tandem, but I've build a lot of slender deltas(it's kind of my thing), some that flew quite nice,and I'm still perfecting the design to get a more well rounded flight envelope from a single setup. I can help with any specific questions you got and overall info, but I'd like to see your progress so far so I can see what areas need work. A slender delta is a tough design for a relative beginner to tackle, but I did a lot of stumbling in the dark already so you won't have to, and I'm stoked to see somebody else interested in the concept👍
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#4
Looks like this is your first post here, so help you have with the project/others building it must be in your real life club or another forum? If you can, post some pics and describe your design. Once I wake up and get situated here I'll share everything I know about slender deltas.
 

Merv

Well-known member
#5
... it is a particularly difficult type of scratch build to start with as a beginner....
My recommendation is to start with a known design. One of the FT trainer planes, the simple cub, tiny trainer, scorch, bushwhacker or explorer are all excellent planes. We will be able to guide you far more effectively with a plane we are familiar with than with one that is unknown.

Welcome to the fourms.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#6
My recommendation is to start with a known design. One of the FT trainer planes, the simple cub, tiny trainer, scorch, bushwhacker or explorer are all excellent planes. We will be able to guide you far more effectively with a plane we are familiar with than with one that is unknown.

Welcome to the fourms.
I second this to some degree.That's part of the warning/disclaimer I was going to give depending on your level of skill or experience. Personally, I'd say keep going with the slender delta idea, but build something a bit more suited to a beginner either first or concurrently alongside it, or buy a simple RTF trainer like a Hobby Zone Champ(that's what helped me fly before my own designs started working!) I'm here to help with the slender delta when you want and are ready,whereas nobody interested or familiar with that type of plane was available at first when I came here, although the help and advice I received with the hobby overall from the awesome community here was tremendous and instrumental in getting me started. I'd also recommend trying a simulator, even just a free one that uses a keyboard to get used to how different types of RC planes respond and handle.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#7
Alright, get ready for a big info dump, first on general advice and my own experiences as well as getting started with the hobby, and then specifically about slender deltas...I'm going to try to make this as neat and concise as possible, yet cover all the bases in a hope to get you off to the right start and on the fast track to success. You are starting the hobby with almost the exact same goals and ideas as I had and an emphasis on custom designs just like me, right down to a tee in certain types of planes even. I started in late 2018, and was extremely stubborn about jumping in with my own designs with no real experience in the hobby or aerodynamic knowledge. There was a some waste in time and materials and a lot of frustration, but I still got my own designs to start flying after a few months of hard work and help/advice/studying here on the FT forums. My first more or less successful designs flew in March or April 2019. I know if you follow the advice you get here you'll be flying in a lot less time(y)

The thing that was the tipping point and the key to getting my own designs to fly, was actually taking advice from the from members here and use a free sim to practice, and then build or buy a simple plane that is good for training a beginner(for me it was the Hobby Zone Champ). If you are looking at FT kit to train on, everyone swears by the Tiny Trainer. If you are set on one of your own designs, I suppose the tandem wing may be a bit easier to work with than the slender delta, but somebody would have to probably build one with you and help you develop it in a way that makes it a good trainer, and also to guide you in flying it/trouble shooting it. I'd probably be willing to do this with my spare 1806 motor once I snag some new foam.

If you want a delta style plane that is easier for a beginner to handle(maybe not a first plane or trainer, but a good second plane) possibly try FT's basic delta, or my Arrowhead tailed delta design(which is really easy to build and fly and has a huge flight envelope that will grow with your skill.) There is printable plans for the Arrowhead, courtesy of @Grifflyer here https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?resources/arrowhead-aerobatic-tailed-delta.93/ (just hit download button. Several members have built and flown this one with great success, so we can guide you through building and flying it. Dig around and you can find FT designs like the Tiny Trainer, FT delta, and tons more custom community designs.

Slender deltas
First off I'd like to say I'm stoked to see somebody other than me with an interest in these(y)! It's a unique niche in aerodynamic design, and though it's not a holy grail wonderplane and has its own quirks and weaknesses(like anything else), it has enough strengths and character to make a well performing RC plane that's enjoyable to fly and unique. I could link articles and pictures about the HP-115 and vortex lift and all that, but you've probably seen all that if you are even using the term "slender delta", so I'm going to skip ahead and come at this from the angle of how those design principles translate to RC with foam board and electric motors.

control system: If less experienced, I'd assume you'd want a 3ch control system VS 4ch, but I could be wrong. 3ch is easier to build and to fly for a beginner, but it will limit the overall flight envelope(amount of different stuff your plane can do) in certain ways that's a trade-off depending on whether you go 3ch elevons/throttle or 3ch RET(rudder/elevator/throttle). I've built both, and the RET slender deltas area a bit easier to fly for a beginner, but are a little quirky and can teach you bad flying habits if you haven't flown other planes before. This version can't really do rolls, but it can loop, fly around, and do high alpha(high angle of attack/hovering) very well. It needs dihedral in the wing tips, which makes turns a bit choppy if you don't do them right, but gives you some self-leveling, which is a plus.

Elevons on the other hand are a more realistic feel and give you full roll control(the axial rolls are like a drill-bit! nothing rolls as fast as a slender delta with powerful elevons) and nice graceful turns and banking, but are a bit more temperamental to slop and touchy for a beginner to fly. If you have 3ch elevons and no rudder, it limits your maneuverability and control while in sustained high alpha. 4ch gives you the best of both worlds, but is extra weight for the servo, a bit more work on the build, and harder for a beginner to fly.

Powerplant: No matter what size and scale your slender delta is at, it will want a motor that's on the larger/more powerful end with an aggressive multi-blade prop to get the full flight envelope potential. Slender deltas need "excess thrust" to meet their low speed and high alpha potential. Also, although slender deltas with a lot of wing and not much fuselage can be very light on wing loading when you do the math, they are still a bit sensitive to weight and will prefer a lighter battery. On 3s with a 15-17" span by 28-30" chord/length wing, my slender deltas have handled much better with a light 650 mAh batter as opposed to a heavier 850. With the 1806 motor, they fly well enough, but have some difficulty and wing rock in high alpha. 2205 or 2806 is enough power with an aggressive 5x5.5x3 prop to have an awesome flight envelope, but your flight times on 650 will only be a few minutes. So basically, your bird has to be a bit overpowered with poor "fuel efficiency" to get its best flight peformance.

Location of prop is also important, and a hard choice with slender deltas. A tractor is basically out of the question due to torque issues and air flow. I used high-mounted pushers. Great on 30" long designs, but go bigger and it is too far away from your control surfaces to give good prop wash, so your handling and control decreases. A prop in slot is hard for smaller models for durability and giving up precious lifting surface area on your skinny little wing. A straight rear pusher will be hard to get CG and require extension cables of various types to get you battery all the way in the nose while your prop is at the back. Also, little to no prop wash on that setup. I'd say if going with a prop and not EDF, the high mounted pusher is the easiest for a smaller plane, and a tail nacelle on the vertical stabilizer might work good on a bigger bird so you get great prop wash right over your control surfaces.

Flying, we'll talk about that when you've got something ready to maiden, or I can address any specific questions before this post gets too massive.
 
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Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#8
As someone who is a club authorised and recognised flight instructor I have seen many mistakes made by beginners in plane and equipment selection. No two people learn at the same rate and have the same skill level. Most do not set up their planes the same way and as for building the number of variations and even build errors are incredible.

Where the OP stated he is but a beginner it is not stated if he is a beginner to building, building in FB, or new to RC flying.

For a beginner a plane should effectively be capable of sustained flight without pilot intervention and should be easy to launch, retrieve, and understand how it operates, (or why it doesn't.

Many people think that because they can fly something that others should be able to as well, and sadly this is often quite wrong or dangerous. The forum is full of people who state that their design is very easy to fly but for a beginner this is often not the case and it can even destroy what little confidence they have.

Basic trainer aircraft normally have similar layout for good reason. In the old days, ( I still use the same approach), a student pilot would graduate from basic to advanced trainer and then onto sport trainer. Once capable of flying the sport trainer successfully other craft such as 3D and other specialised designs are theirs to play with.

As for a trainer version of a delta or a flying wing, they in themselves must be a rather unique design because a basic trainer needs to be somewhat stable in roll and slow to roll and much more sensitive in pitch and rapid to respond in pitch, (the same as a basic trainer, Deltas tend to be sluggish in pitch and extremely rapid in roll.

For a beginner it is better to start at the beginning and continuously add to your experience and confidence than to try to fast track the learning and end up with a lot of self doubt and even fear of flying the plane you have just built. Many build beautiful birds and then procrastinate about flying them. A sad thing in reality.

By all means encourage beginners to build and fly your creations but try to be realistic about their performance. If I believed everyone on the forum, every home design flies brilliantly and is the best plane designed ever!:unsure:

Beginners start at the beginning and you will be flying almost anything in no time. Learn at your own pace. Seek plenty of advice! Learn from the mistakes of others! Finally take your time because it is not a competition but rather a great and rewarding hobby which can be with you for life!

Have fun!
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#9
If your looking at a foam trainer, I'd honestly say the Tiny Trainer is the best option, and if I could go back, I'd start with ailerons right away instead of beginning the hobby flying RET. I think you will learn better and faster if you train on ailerons first, especially if you want to get into deltas later. That was really one of the only reasons I even linked my own Arrowhead design in the mix, not that it would be an ideal trainer, but looking at it my Hobby Zone Champ wasn't probably the most efficient choice either, but my design does have ailerons which are a plus and is simple to fly. No, the Arrowhead is not a trainer, probably better for a second or third plane, but what I've said about the ease of building and flying and flexibility of flight envelope are not "snake oil claims" and can be attested to by a few experienced forum members(who have hands on experience with it). I've since edited the above post to emphasize the TT and classify the FT delta and Arrohead more as "second planes".

I'd say the things right now that will improve your skills most rapidly and give you the best basis to start are some time on a simulator(even a basic free one), a trainer plane with ailerons such as the TT, and to continue to learn and ask questions here and browse around. I also do not know your general level of build or design skill or how much you know about basic aerodynamics, but a couple of the most basic FT folds and building techniques are very helpful and will come in handy for making custom designs if you don't know them already, which makes the FT speed build kits a great way to start. The balance of this hobby is to not get too ahead of yourself, but to not hold yourself back either; take the right risks at the right pace and maximize your learning.

Don't be afraid to fly and try new things and even crash, which is why I recommend that when you start building you own designs to keep them as simple as possible and not make them complex or "pretty" until you've got a good working model with all the kinks worked out. I can definitely help you get the gist of how to do a lot with very little foam, time, and only the most basic techniques when it comes to prototyping your concepts, and I'll definitely be available to help you with anything slender delta related. It would be good to know exactly how much designing, building, and flying experience you have, and your experiences with the hobby so far. I'm looking forward to hear your progress and for you to share your designs some time!
 
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Vimana89

Well-known member
#12
Who knows if the OP even has any interest in checking this thread anymore, so I've said all I can without being asked specific questions or even knowing exactly where their building and flying skills are at. They could have lost interest, found the info they needed elsewhere, or took a different route with the hobby already. Starting the hobby from the standpoint of custom designs(especially slender deltas and stuff) is a tough path(😆) and most certainly best aided by a sim and basic trainer for now, but I would never want to chastise somebody for being ambitious or creative or make them think they have to give their custom ideas up until they are some sort of five year veteran of flying trainers and building kits. It's a complex situation and requires thorough and detailed answers, though I probably did go a bit overboard...
 
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Vimana89

Well-known member
#13
Guess what I just realized looking at the OP's exact words and syntax? They are copied from one of my own old posts. https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/options.56440/. This was a waste of our time, especially mine. I don't know if this is a random troll, a forum member who thinks it's funny and/or doesn't like me and wants to waste my time/try to make me make an ass of myself. Other than that, I've had random people I don't know trying to contact me and start talking to me over playstation and saying they got a wrong number on my phone and then keep trying to get to know me, and I've just been ignoring them...there's some messed up people out there, so who knows. Either way, nice thread :poop:P.O.S.-seidon:poop:, Troll-seidon, Shill-seidon, or whatever you are. You are clever, but I am intelligent. There's a difference.
 
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BATTLEAXE

Well-known member
#14
Guess what I just realized looking at the OP's exact words and syntax? They are copied from one of my own old posts. https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/options.56440/. This was a waste of our time, especially mine. I don't know if this is a random troll, a forum member who thinks it's funny and/or doesn't like me and wants to waste my time/try to make me make an ass of myself. Other than that, I've had random people I don't know trying to contact me and start talking to me over playstation and saying they got a wrong number on my phone and then keep trying to get to know me, and I've just been ignoring them...there's some messed up people out there, so who knows. Either way, nice thread :poop:P.O.S.-seidon:poop:, Troll-seidon, Shill-seidon, or whatever you are. You are clever, but I am intelligent. There's a difference.
It's all good man, if anything I learned something from your posts and have set your respect level up a couple notches concerning delta's. These kinds of people are all over and like to suck people into their own mental chaos, misery loves company bud.
 
#15
Guess what I just realized looking at the OP's exact words and syntax? They are copied from one of my own old posts. https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/options.56440/. This was a waste of our time, especially mine. I don't know if this is a random troll, a forum member who thinks it's funny and/or doesn't like me and wants to waste my time/try to make me make an ass of myself. Other than that, I've had random people I don't know trying to contact me and start talking to me over playstation and saying they got a wrong number on my phone and then keep trying to get to know me, and I've just been ignoring them...there's some messed up people out there, so who knows. Either way, nice thread :poop:P.O.S.-seidon:poop:, Troll-seidon, Shill-seidon, or whatever you are. You are clever, but I am intelligent. There's a difference.
It definitely wasn't a waste of time I'll definitely be keeping this thread bookmarked as a resource for whenever I, or someone else wants info on deltas.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#16
It definitely wasn't a waste of time I'll definitely be keeping this thread bookmarked as a resource for whenever I, or someone else wants info on deltas.
You are right in that regard at least. I oughta lighten up a bit, but stuff has been annoying me in life and leaving me wary of people trying to mess with me...unless that wasn't the deal at all, and the troll was actually...YOU, FISHING FOR INFO for your super secret "rocket propelled paper plane":ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

 
#17
You are right in that regard at least. I oughta lighten up a bit, but stuff has been annoying me in life and leaving me wary of people trying to mess with me...unless that wasn't the deal at all, and the troll was actually...YOU, FISHING FOR INFO for your super secret "rocket propelled paper plane":ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Lol that video was hilarious! No it wasn't me, remember @The Hangar's fake account? His old one got uncovered so now he made a new one:ROFLMAO:
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#18
Lol that video was hilarious! No it wasn't me, remember @The Hangar's fake account? His old one got uncovered so now he made a new one:ROFLMAO:
I'm not sure I recall that one 100%. @The Hangar you sneaky bastid. Sorry I went off on you(or should I say your alter ego), but I really though somebody was screwing with me and not in a funny or joking manner, really trying to mess with me, waste my time, or make me look dumb somehow. I am kinda dumb in that I didn't recognize my own writing sooner. A+ Trolling, I must say...but if you ever really want/need to talk deltas just ask, you don't have to go "undercover":LOL:.
 
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The Hangar

Well-known member
#20
Suddenly I get tagged in the middle of a unhappy section. I just read the previous posts and I think I have an idea of what happened. It definitly wasn’t me - the whole 2nd account think was a joke. Sorry for the waste of your time @Vimana89 but as @BATTLEAXE and @Grifflyer pointed out it’s a good resource though. On a lighter note, I’ve really been having a blast with the arrowhead! I was flying in our backyard in kinda a misty rain a couple days ago, and I propped it up on it’s tail and then punched the throttle. Boom - I have a vtol now! Well, minus the L🤣 I have landed it on it’s tail (accidentally) though!