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Proposition: Build my dream plane, and I will buy it.

Vimana89

Well-known member
#1
Hello all. Some of you are familiar with my struggles learning to design, build, and fly RC planes. I have come very close on a few occasions and gotten my builds airborne, but with limited or poor control responses and other issues, not to mention lack of piloting skill. I'm very close and will keep trying, but it is becoming tiresome and depressing, and I sorely need something to take the edge off and make me feel like this hobby is rewarding. I am constantly annoyed at my unsteady hands, poor motor skills, poor math skills, impatience, inexperience, all the other things that make the process extra difficult for me where it is easy for others. I've looked at buying a fixed wing plane, and I've had bad experiences and really don't like my options. The types of planes that I really, really want to fly, there are no retail models for sale, or kits, or even plans for many, yet I have seen videos of them successfully built and flown. I don't want to wait months or even years through hours and hours of building and failing, or of building or buying something that's not really what I want, before I finally get to do the hobby my way. If somebody here could build me what I want as a "bind and fly", "ARF", or even a straightforward and easy to assemble laser cut kit, I would be willing to purchase it for a reasonable price, taking into account time, effort, materials, etc.

For my dream plane proposition, I'll start with what's perhaps my favorite type of plane
1546139089622.png

A "slender delta" with a very high sweep and low aspect ratio, such as the hp-115. There's something about this profile that's captivating to me. I like the way it looks, and the way it flies. I love the sort of retro-futuristic style of the slender delta, and the vortex lift generated at high angles of attack, and the fact that such a "super-sonic" looking shape can perform well at low speeds too. I am fairly flexible as to the specifics of this project, the main stipulation being that the wing profile be similar or exact to that of the hp-115, very high sweep and low aspect(though if somebody were daring enough to go even higher sweep and made it work, I would not complain).I would definitely accept a replica of the hp-115 itself, and some builders have had success at this with small diameter ducted fans. Another option that would be great is a custom slender delta built around a pusher prop and one of the FT power packs. Here are some great examples of the look and performance I'm going for:


A delta of high sweep and low aspect with a simple pusher prop. Flies great!


A small diameter EDF model of the hp-115

The other stipulation is, I do not know how solder. If offering a kit, it should preferably include soldered electronics or be based around them, such as one of the FT power packs.

As far as size and material, I'm pretty flexible, and willing to let the builder build it the way they can make it work best, but I want to keep the cost modest(though I'm not a cheapo and will pay for quality), the complication low, and I want it durable and easy to repair. Foamboard would probably be ideal, as it would be easy to repair and perhaps even rebuild/reverse engineer and learn if necessary. I currently have a transmitter with no servo mixing, but I can upgrade if necessary, or the build can include an onboard mixer. I think the absolute best configuration will be a basic three channel elevon "yank and bank" build.

In the meantime, I'll continue learning and working on my builds, but it would really be awesome if somebody could help me make my dream plane a fun reality, rather than a not-so-fun obsessive thought that fails to ever manifest.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#3
This is a very advanced build, keep that in mind
I can see that, at least to some extent. It's picky with the wing loading and CG, and extra engineering concerns for slotting a prop, but other than that, its a single engine, 3 channel yank and bank build that seems to have pretty docile flight characteristics.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#4
I mean, with my garbage building skills it might as well be rocket science, but people here build much more complicated stuff all the time.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#6
With the aerospace industry booming where I live, you think there would be meetup groups or something where young nerds and old vets get together and learn and do this, but nobody in this forsaken place has any hobbys. It's go to work, keep your head down, come home, drown your sorrows with tv and booze. I've got 10 pot shops and one supermarket in my own town and the only rc shop is downtown, and they carry and abysmal selection of parts at outrageous prices. I'm completely on my own here, and I'm tired of it. It's going to take me a lot longer and a lot more wasted time and work for nothing to ever get to where I need to be to build the planes I want, and that no guarantee. I could still be floundering around five months from now with nothing to show but disappointment. If life is always going to cheat me, I should cheat back, and employ somebody well beyond my skill level to make my dream come true.
 

Keno

Well-known member
#7
Actually there quite a few of these types models exist. They fly quite excellent and fun to fly. I personally like a German WW2 version proposed by Lippichs (sorry I can't remember how to spell his name) He in-fact proposed many advanced interesting aircraft designs although many never flew. The one that I am thinking of would not take much to change it to your idea. Happy flying and building.
Edit: see attach file
 

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Vimana89

Well-known member
#8
Actually there quite a few of these types models exist. They fly quite excellent and fun to fly. I personally like a German WW2 version proposed by Lippichs (sorry I can't remember how to spell his name) He in-fact proposed many advanced interesting aircraft designs although many never flew. The one that I am thinking of would not take much to change it to your idea. Happy flying and building.
Not the worst idea. There's a site that has plans for a pusher concord I believe among other things if you become a member. I saw a vid of it being built. Good plan, but I'd do away with the fake engines he put led lights in. More work, more cuts, more drag, for a non functional part.
 

Keno

Well-known member
#9
Not the worst idea. There's a site that has plans for a pusher concord I believe among other things if you become a member. I saw a vid of it being built. Good plan, but I'd do away with the fake engines he put led lights in. More work, more cuts, more drag, for a non functional part.
Look at my first post
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#10
Look at my first post
Very nice. That's a nice little plane in and of itself, would be fun to build. You are right, it is already set up in a way that all I would have to do is extend the wing and nose out to to hp-115 like proportions, alter the cg, and leave the rest the same to get what I want. Great idea, next time I attempt this build I'll go off that.
 

Bricks

Well-known member
#11
Maybe getting your piloting skills down first your past builds would of stood a better chance of actually flying. Without these skills no matter who builds what for you it will probably not work out. You were given very good advice at the beginning about building a very easy peasy type plane first, and get very good at flying it then move on. I know this is not the way you want to do it but more then likely if you really really want to succeed at RC flying it is the only way to do it.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#12
With the aerospace industry booming where I live, you think there would be meetup groups or something where young nerds and old vets get together and learn and do this, but nobody in this forsaken place has any hobbys. It's go to work, keep your head down, come home, drown your sorrows with tv and booze. I've got 10 pot shops and one supermarket in my own town and the only rc shop is downtown, and they carry and abysmal selection of parts at outrageous prices. I'm completely on my own here, and I'm tired of it. It's going to take me a lot longer and a lot more wasted time and work for nothing to ever get to where I need to be to build the planes I want, and that no guarantee. I could still be floundering around five months from now with nothing to show but disappointment. If life is always going to cheat me, I should cheat back, and employ somebody well beyond my skill level to make my dream come true.
There is a way you can cut out a lot of the experimentation.

If I wish to build a "SPECIAL" aircraft I have a look around on the internet for a similar design especially among the older balsa plans. (My favourite website is www.outerzone.co.uk). Once I have found a similar design I then render it in FB, test fly it, and then alter the design to make it closer to the plane I wish to fly. This way I get a plane that flies to start with and a reference point to start my own design.

It works for me. here is one of the old designs I build in FB, https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/the-flying-wing-in-fb.55970/. It is not your special plane but you may find a close match and I am sure someone will help render it in Fb WITH you!

Have fun!
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#13
There is a way you can cut out a lot of the experimentation.

If I wish to build a "SPECIAL" aircraft I have a look around on the internet for a similar design especially among the older balsa plans. (My favourite website is www.outerzone.co.uk). Once I have found a similar design I then render it in FB, test fly it, and then alter the design to make it closer to the plane I wish to fly. This way I get a plane that flies to start with and a reference point to start my own design.

It works for me. here is one of the old designs I build in FB, https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/the-flying-wing-in-fb.55970/. It is not your special plane but you may find a close match and I am sure someone will help render it in Fb WITH you!

Have fun!
Nice design you built, and good method, but I have no experience with 3D rendering and flight simulating programs. I could be wrong, but in my experience I find those types of things mind-bogglingly complex, unintuitive, and a massive chore to learn to use in their own right.Im just not sure if they will help me simplify the process, or just complicate it. I may just end up having to take my time and pencil a 3 view sketch with dimensions. However, I'd be willing to try some sort of program if it was pretty basic and proved really helpful.
 
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Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#14
Nice design you built, and good method, but I have no experience with 3D rendering and flight simulating programs. I could be wrong, but in my experience I find those types of things mind-bogglingly complex, unintuitive, and a massive chore to learn to use in their own right.Im just not sure if they will help me simplify the process, or just complicate it. I may just end up having to take my time and pencil a 3 view sketch with dimensions. However, I'd be willing to try some sort of program if it was pretty basic and proved really helpful.
I believe that others use a program called sketchup to render 3 view drawings into outlines for FB.


I personally am still old school. With pencil and paper I can draw up a set of plans quite quickly but using the software to make a set of plans is a slow and laborious process for me.

There are many sketchup proponents on the forum so perhaps you could seek their know how and even assistance.

Have fun!
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#15
I believe that others use a program called sketchup to render 3 view drawings into outlines for FB.


I personally am still old school. With pencil and paper I can draw up a set of plans quite quickly but using the software to make a set of plans is a slow and laborious process for me.

There are many sketchup proponents on the forum so perhaps you could seek their know how and even assistance.

Have fun!
It's good to have options, and yes, I'll definitely need help if I try sketchup. I think I'll start by brushing up my pencil sketching skills, I have a feeling that approach will end up working better for me as well.
 
#16
Okay, let me bottom line this hopefully without being too blunt.

A relatively long life has taught me that if you want to do something cool, you are going to have to commit to it. Simple as that. Yes, certain things come easier to some people but for the most part, it just looks like it comes easier to them because we have not seen all the time they have put into developing a particular skill set.

I seriously lack dexterity myself, I mostly overcome it by using a straight edge and templets.

There are a lot of ways to go about drawing up plans. All of them will take some level of commitment. Personally, if I try to do it on paper I can't tell what I was doing a week later!

@Hai-Lee mentioned SketchUp, I've used it in the past and it was okay but I went to Fusion 360 about two years ago and I now love it. It is free to hobbyists but it is industrial grade 3d modeling. Get in and learn it and in the end, you can print plans that look professional

So here is the plan, grab some foam board and make something. No, not your dream bird today, just something. Then something else. Now start toying around with your plane. The first iteration will probably suck. That is okay! Go back and build another fixing what sucked about the first one. Rinse and repeat.

In the end, you will find this far more satisfying than just commissioning one built.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#17
The thing is, that all sounds very nice, but it will only be satisfying if I were to actually get things flying right. That's not looking much closer now than when I started, and my life is a nightmare.The people that have/had the most success at this started early and had mentors or communities that helped them in real life. No such luxury here.I don't have the time, energy, and patience to overcome the drag of my poor coordination and dexterity, and my inexperience in any reasonable manner of time, and that discourages me from wanting to continue putting in lots of hours just to get slapped with disappointment again and again. I could spend anywhere from $100-$300 on an entry level plane to learn to fly, but none of those are the planes I really want to fly. The freewing series of edf jets is kinda nice, but why shell out the cash for one of those if I could have somebody build my dream plane out of foamboard for a similar price? If I smack up that foamboard it will be easier to repair and replace anyway than that nice freewing, and in doing so I could learn about how it was built so I could rebuild it myself if I have to.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#18
Not to mention, it would be a collaborative process, so I don't feel so alone in all this, and it would yield some cool plans that I would not hesitate to share and spread freely.
 

Gazoo

Well-known member
#19
Not to mention, it would be a collaborative process, so I don't feel so alone in all this, and it would yield some cool plans that I would not hesitate to share and spread freely.
Assuming the originator of the design was willing to give the design away for free. You are going to buy the plane from the creator of the design. Why shouldn't everyone else pay for the design as well.

Just saying...
 

Chuppster

Well-known member
#20
Most trainers look really boring but the reason they are trainers is that they fly really well. Everyone is giving you good advice here, but your attitude is really negative, I understand you've had struggles but that's all part of this! I had no community outside of the FT community and I've been able to teach myself how to build and fly based on the FT videos. If you want to up your flying skills without destroying airplanes you've labored over for hours I would consider a simulator so you can get your muscle memory down. This is probably not what you want to hear, but we care about you and we want you to join us! We aren't a bunch of "haves and have nots" when it comes to building and flying, anyone can learn with the correct perseverance. Take your time, study videos, and you can do it!