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Pumpkin drop event

Quadcopter configuration

#1
Hello,

I want to join the quadcopter part of the hobby (already flown planes LOS and FPV), and want to ask if you guys think this is a good setup

Frame: Emax Nighthawk
Motors: EMAX Cooling Series Multicopter Motor MT2204 KV2300
ESC: BLHeli Series 20A ESC (is this ESC too big?)
RX: rSky Delta 8
Video camera + RX: Eachine CCD 700tvl (don't have so much money any more for something like a immersion rc RX or so)
Naze 32
lost model buzzer (will be programmed for low battery alarm and lost model switch)

I don't have any experience with quadcopters (in real life), but have a lot of experience with building the planes and watched a looooottttt of quadcopter videos from rcmodelreviews etc. I have flow and learned to fly LOS quadcopter on the aerosim-rc simulator and some experience with FPV racing with the hotprops simulator.

When I will start building the quad (in about two months) I'll need some help with PID tuning since I don't have a that good feeling of what is a good PID configuration and what isn't.

Thanks
Nicolas
 

C0d3M0nk3y

Posted a thousand or more times
#2
Those parts seem reasonable. Any reason why you're going with the Delta 8 instead of one of the smaller receivers like the D4R-II or the X4R-SB?
 
#3
I had a Nighthawk frame and the arms are a constant problem. The standoffs always strip out and the arms stap too easy. I'd go with a ZMR250 V2 full carbon frame.
 
#4
I have actually no reason why I used the Delta 8, just tought this one was the only (cheap) one compatible with the Hitec transmitter. Will look into that D4R-II.

Is the nighthawk frame so bad than? I tought that this quadcopter was reasonably well. Can you send any photos from your problem so I can better decide what to do?
 

C0d3M0nk3y

Posted a thousand or more times
#5
I have actually no reason why I used the Delta 8, just tought this one was the only (cheap) one compatible with the Hitec transmitter. Will look into that D4R-II.
You may be right about that. I thought you meant you were using it with a FrSky transmitter.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
#6
Is the nighthawk frame so bad than? I tought that this quadcopter was reasonably well. Can you send any photos from your problem so I can better decide what to do?
I have the original hybrid G10/CF Nighthawk 250 and the new 280 which is also a hybrid G10/CF material.

The original 250 is considerably lighter than the new 280 despite being nearly identical in size. But I'm only running 1806 motors on the 250 and 2204's on the 280 so that's probably a big part of the weight difference.

I've bashed the heck out of both of them both and have yet to break any arms. I have sheared and bent the screws that mount the arms so obviously I've given them some pretty hard hits :D
 

HawkMan

Senior Member
#9
The Full carbon 250 nighthawk is a very solid quad. I haven't had any problems with any stripping of any standoffs, might depend where you buy it from I suppose... I've also had some very hard impacts, and I only broke an arm once. It was a very hard impact at a hard angle causing the top layer of carbon on the arm to break at the frame and the other layer slightly delaminating. I dropped in some thin CA while I waited for a new arm and it was rock solid.

There are replacement arms today that are both thicker in thickness but also in width and are practically unbreakable.

Personally I prefer the nighthawk over the ZMR. though there's more PDB options for the ZMR. and don't see any weaknesses on the nighthawk that you don't also have on the ZMR.
 

HawkMan

Senior Member
#10
I think I will go with the nighthawk http://www.emaxmodel.com/nighthawk-250-280-pro-ii-all-carbon-fiber-quadcopter-aircraft-frame.html which version is this? Also for the flightcontroller. Is the naze actually that nice or is it only the baseflight software? and do you guys think that the escs are too big?
That's the all carbon version which is good. it's also got the new style arms with less weak points and no cutouts so they're really solid and you're going to work really hard to break one :)

As for the ESC, I'm not sure, I think the ones I have are the emax 20A Simon (blheli actually) ones. and they fit in the ESC "compartment", but it's tight. Mine have the Cap sticking out straight though.

nope, checked my ebay history fo the replacement I orderes, I have the 12A ones. so yes, the 20A ones might be to big. also for the 2204/2300kv motors 12A should work just fine.
 
#11
Is the nighthawk frame so bad than? I tought that this quadcopter was reasonably well. Can you send any photos from your problem so I can better decide what to do?
I gutted mine to build a Versacopter and trashed all the broken stuff.
I'm not saying the Nighthawk is a bad frame I just like the ZMR better. They are more popular so parts are more available and you can get a lot of up grade parts for them too.

Here's some pics of my ZMR and Versa
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
 
#12
I gutted mine to build a Versacopter and trashed all the broken stuff.
I'm not saying the Nighthawk is a bad frame I just like the ZMR better. They are more popular so parts are more available and you can get a lot of up grade parts for them too.

Here's some pics of my ZMR and Versa
View attachment 57942
View attachment 57943
looks nice! Looks like a really clean built, both.
They always tought me with the 20% rule for choosing the escs.
Do you guys now any cheap place for well balanced props? The cheapest I found was about .5$ for one prop.
Thanks
 

jipp

Senior Member
#13
with these minis you do not have to really worry about that. pretty much gemfans, HQ, dals, etc.. 5-6" props are ballance well enough for minis.. you will end up balancing them your self if you feel the need; on my zmr 250 iv not had to balance them yet and have not notice any issues. i just ordered a runcam mobius style action cam, so maybe i will rethink balance props in the 5-6" size.. i ended up ordering a dubro prop balancer, not used it yet tho.

chris.
 
#14
oh than that will be ok I think. And what about PID-tuning since I don't have any experience with quadcopters (in real life) so I don't know how to PID-tune and if I did it correct?

Nicolas
 

jipp

Senior Member
#18
the more C the better your performance will be.. but with a 250 size quad 1300 3S 45c-90C or even 30C will do. the more the C rating tho, the better performance you will have.. hope this helps.
chris.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
#19
What batteries do you guys recommend? 35c 1300? Or should I go with a 1500 or 1800?
Depends on how many amps your setup can pull.

The power you can pull from a pack is a function of C and capacity. C*ah = amps you can pull.

Take a 35c 1300mah pack. That's 1.3ah * 35c = 52.5amp max draw available. 52.5/4 = 13.125amp per motor.

So if you're running 12a ESC's and not overpowering them...a 35c 1300 will give you all the power you can use.

High capacity packs you can get by with lower C ratings. Take a 1800mah 35c pack, that gives you 63amp max or 15.75 per corner on a quad.

But that's only half the equation...capacity is the other half. A 1800mah pack has 500mah more capacity than a 1300mah...which can potentially give you more flight time...except that 1800 pack will weigh more and take more energy to push around so you'll drain it faster. And higher C packs are also usually heavier than lower C packs.

So it's complex and depends heavily on your setup and how much you're willing to pay for batteries.

Also...some batteries don't live up to their C rating while others exceed it. So experience and trial and error play a roll too.

My emax 280 pro I like 1300mah 45c packs, I've tried some 1300 35c packs and had them sag under throttle punches. I've also flown with 2200 40c packs, but don't really get any extra flight time because of the extra weight and it's less responsive in the air.
 

jipp

Senior Member
#20
i did not even consider the esc amp. i bought some of the 45c battery's. but my battery's have sat for a few months so i may have to buy some new ones. so that explains why most are using the 20amp esc especially since they are so small now.
then you do not have to worry about your rating as much on a mini.

im planing on building a larger hex 680 size i want to keep it some what cheap on power.. so im planing on using 4s i think 5000mah or maybe two 4s.. as it seems a 4s 5000mah battery is about 60.00 so looks like i will want 40amp esc.

chris.