Run 5 motors off 4000 mAh battery and Matek F765 flight controller?

OwenN

Active member
I have 2 2805.6 1800 KV motors 9 inch prop.,
plus 2 x 1408,3600 KV 4 inch prop,
plus 1 x 1306 4000 Kv, 3 8inch prop
I want to control them from a Matek f765 flight controller, loaded with Ardupilot software/firmware.
I suppose that means 5 channels, and an extra switch somewhere.
Any ideas on haw to set this up? How do you normally do Flaps and undercarrage?

I want the 3 smaller motors to be roll and pitch controlled at low speed, and cut off over 40 mph.


1) does the Matek have enough motor channels, or do I need a different controller?
2) what current do the smaller motors draw, and can the battery handle it.?
The battery is 4000 mAh 30C 4S.

I am adding the 3 extra small motors and props to convert my tailsitter design to STOL.

The reasoning is the ability to ground launch and land on farm paddocks. The grass is often not a stable platform,
and a rolling launch/land requires 3 inch plus wheels.

My old free-flighter used to land Ok, at about 36 inches and 1.5 lbs.
It landed fairly quickly, at about 20 mph, and rolled along nicely.
It even survived several fence hits with only minor damage.

Possibly the extra lift is not needed, but takeoff stability is an issue.

The aircraft will be off the ground before flight speed is reached. Pitch and roll need to be managed.

Also, more specs on the 3 smaller motors would be good.

I can only get the motors from Banggood, and they don't have lengthy descriptions-
just the S-number. They are all 4S capable.

Brands are: Aurora rc d1306 and Iflight xing c1408

Never mind weights. Current drain with specific props would be useful.

It would be handy to know their projected thrust as well. Should they have an overriding throttle, or just on/off?

I don't expect the 3 small motors to lift 1.4 to 1.6 kgs by themselves.
This is more in the range of 4 x 5 inch prop motors.

Ultra-light "stick" bell motors are 8.5 g, ones with threads and nuts on the prop shaft are around 16 g.

Which are the best props? 5 or 6 inch pitch? 3 or 4 blades?
For both motor/ prop diameter cases.

Specific blade shapes? I know the smaller one look like large props hacked off half way!

I want them to run in tubes/rings/ducts, optimised for static thrust.

Also, where can I find good duct profile layouts for different ducts?
The 4 inch ones go through the wings, at about 30mm deep,
(1.2 ins) and the 3 inch one goes through the fuselage, at 200mm deep (8 inches)
Here is a picture of the specs, which I do not fully understand.
<edit>
dshot is the esc protocol, pwm is for actuators.
There are 9 devices to be controlled.
The Matek spec shows 12, of which 10 are dshot- capable.
does this mean it can run 4 actuators and 8 motors at once??

Uart is universal asynchronous receiver transmitter. There are 7.
Is this used for just the receiver, or for other devices?

Is this also for telemetry output? The receiver needs at least 5 channels- I suppose they come in 1, 2,3,4,6 ,8,....
Receiver should be 2.4 Ghz digital, video is 5.8 GHz analog.

Can this controller mix the telemetry into the analog output of the video?
How would that be wired up? camera > flight controller > 5.8 GHz transmitter??

I see it mentions 5V, 9V, 12V, 3.3 V LDO??
LDO = low dropout regulator, 200mA.
What runs off this? is this for low power voltage regulation for the receiver?

matek f765.jpg
 
Last edited:

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
What exactly are you trying to build? Mismatched motors usually don't play or fare well together. The C rating from that battery is super low if you plan on running all motors at once or even more then one at a time for that matter. For anything high kv and more then one motor I recommend no less then 100C which for a 4000mah pack will be expensive. Maybe as low as 75c depending on manufacturer.

Motor specs should be readily available from the manufacturers web site and should have a chart with recommended and tested battery and prop combinations for each motor.

Yes telemetry information can be displayed visually in the osd. I am however not up to speed on fixed wing flight controllers to say how reliable or well functioning that is. I do remember when these types of controllers came out the OSD choices were limited.
 

Corsair714

Well-known member
What exactly are you trying to build? Mismatched motors usually don't play or fare well together. The C rating from that battery is super low if you plan on running all motors at once or even more then one at a time for that matter. For anything high kv and more then one motor I recommend no less then 100C which for a 4000mah pack will be expensive. Maybe as low as 75c depending on manufacturer.

Motor specs should be readily available from the manufacturers web site and should have a chart with recommended and tested battery and prop combinations for each motor.

Yes telemetry information can be displayed visually in the osd. I am however not up to speed on fixed wing flight controllers to say how reliable or well functioning that is. I do remember when these types of controllers came out the OSD choices were limited.
That's agiant battery though. So it would put out around 120 amps if my math is correct. I think if the motors are only on briefly then the battery could probably handle it.
 

CampRobber

Active member
What exactly are you trying to build? Mismatched motors usually don't play or fare well together.

He has another thread, it's some kind of VTOL, I think with 2x forward propulsion and 3x tricopter-ish lift fans. 30C would be sluggish on a miniquad but it's totally sufficient for flight. Mavic Minis fly on 18650s and those are rated like 3-5C or something.

Should be fun to watch once he starts building and testing but I think it's still at the drawing board phase.
 

OwenN

Active member
Yep Drawing board. I made a start on full size drawings, then redrew the 1/5 scale, and haven't got back to full size yet.

The vertical lift motors assist only at launch and landing. At the moment, the landing profile is to come down like a tail-sitter,
and flop forward. The vertical thrusters assist in braking and the final rotation.

I have dropped all three to 3-inch, and moved the rear two inboard and to the 30% point on the wing.
I will look at the manufacturers website, thanks. Also the local drone shops for 3 inch propellers.
I will stick with the Aurora motor spec.
The vertical thrust won't lift it, but should level and steady it a bit.
Every motor will have its own esc.
 

Corsair714

Well-known member
Like I thought this was a vtol? U saying they won't even lift it confuses me. Are the other motors gonna tilt up? Maybe you already said this?
 

OwenN

Active member
Here is an interesting 4S 3400 KV 70mm dia unit.
Will it fit in a 50mm deep wing?-a little surgery??
70mm Duct Fan Unit with 3400KV 4S Ducted fan unit Banggood.jpg
 

OwenN

Active member
l
Like I thought this was a vtol? U saying they won't even lift it confuses me. Are the other motors gonna tilt up? Maybe you already said this?

This is a combined flow design-experimental. The horizontal flow from the 9 inch props cause flow-lift and ground effect to help get it in the air. I think angling it up about 45 degrees would give the best launching effect. The big props have enough thrust to lift the aircraft straight up, but I am trying out a different launch scheme. The 3 small motors have enough thrust to get it just floating and pitched up.
 

b-29er

Well-known member
Here is an interesting 4S 3400 KV 70mm dia unit.
Will it fit in a 50mm deep wing?-a little surgery??

Nope, the powerplant and fan are going to be larger than 50mm in height. Not to mention that EDF uses 64a at full tilt. What are you estimating for a flying weight for this thing? Any pictures of the design/drawings/etc?
 

OwenN

Active member
Yes, these units look way too powerful and heavy. A basic motor for a 3 inch prop is only 16 grams. Back to the drawing board!
How do they get to 220 grams???

I can get a motor, tube, mount, and prop into less than 50 grams.

I will look into that. I can make my own lead-in forms freehand from solid balsa, grain filler, etc.
I can wind my own paper/glue tubes.
The stack height of motor plus prop is only about 30 mm.

Current management is an issue. I am already allocating 100 amps to the main motor.
The little guys can only have 10-12 A each!
That is 120-200 W This will only give about 300g thrust each, total 900g, for model weight of 1400g - will it make any difference?

Maybe I need a whole new design, with ducting off the 9 inch props??
These could also swivel, maybe.

They could move a fair bit between the front and rear wings, but the wings would tend to block flow a bit.
I will do some sketches.

Putting deflectors in a large 9 inch tube is pretty inefficient!

I need to blow some air over control surfaces to get lift stability.

Hacker EDF units.jpg
 

OwenN

Active member
Here is a new layout. Now I need an actuator and pivot scheme for the big motors, and a selection for a 4S 3 inch motor prop unit that only draws 15 amps. Maybe a 2400 KV or less? any ideas? I had to steal a little area from the main wing.
revised layout 22-12-20.jpg
 

Ketchup

4s mini mustang
Even if you wanted to do a non bicopter vtol you would really only need a third tail rotor or something, or maybe two more behind the wing so it is like a quad. There is also the option of just making it a bicopter though, but you might need an experienced pilot to fly it and understand it while you are tuning.
 

OwenN

Active member
This one has a 3 inch unit at the front-that thing under the cockpit.

I need to run a motor by amp-limiting it from the flight controller, and run a 4S motor, or run a lower spec motor at less than full amp draw.

I can find a 1306 3750 KV 4S motor, but I want to run it at maybe 1/4 of its full amps. Is that allowed for in the flight controllers?

I could somehow run
3 joysticks, and limit one motor directly from the transmitter
controller. How would I set that up? It needs an on/off control anyway.
 

b-29er

Well-known member
This one has a 3 inch unit at the front-that thing under the cockpit.

I need to run a motor by amp-limiting it from the flight controller, and run a 4S motor, or run a lower spec motor at less than full amp draw.

I can find a 1306 3750 KV 4S motor, but I want to run it at maybe 1/4 of its full amps. Is that allowed for in the flight controllers?

I could somehow run
3 joysticks, and limit one motor directly from the transmitter
controller. How would I set that up? It needs an on/off control anyway.

The way that design is set up, you probably want to use a variable pitch prop, something like this, on the nose:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DJ83C34/?tag=lstir-20
you basically keep the power on at a set level, triggered by whatever switch you use to engage vtol, and you tie the pitch to your elevator. Thats akin to what the CL-84 did, though it used a tail-mounted prop. Yaw could be provided by tilting the forward fan left and right, like a conventional tricopter, or by varying the angle of the rear engine mounts like the E-Flite Convergence, and roll can be controlled by varying the speed of the two rear fans.
 

OwenN

Active member
I think I can link the front thruster throttle to the elevator, and just limit maximum output via the flight controller.
the two main motors are gyro roll-controlled while doing a tailsitter liftoff. there is probably an allowance in ardupilot for a similar
arrangement for tilt-rotors.