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Scumbag AMA Model Aviation Magazine.

bicyclemonkey

Flying Derp
Mentor
#1
I don't know the circumstances but I just love how in the new issue of the AMA's Model Aviation magazine they covered up the brand name of the battery (we all know what it is) but not the Hitec Optima RX, or (off the photo) the AXi motor...

*EDIT*
That is in fact red Velcro on the battery, not regular tape. Thanks Pgerts for noticing this!



They were also (in my opinion) hating on FPV pilots. This article was discussing the AMA petition on FPV rules. I think this petition was linked here on the flite test forum by someone some months ago. The author of this article mentioned Trappy (Raphael Pirker) by name and accused him of "almost" shutting down every flying site in the five boroughs of New York City. The tone of the article to me sounded much like a parent telling their child "if you live under this roof, you'll follow our rules". The author says they found one sentence that someone submitted in the petition disturbing...that sentence was "We can say with certainty that virtually no FPV flyer in the USA follows the AMA [FPV] rules".

The AMA said this sentence concerns them b/c we are asking them to intervene on their behalf and provide the same protection a regular line of site flyer would enjoy.

I for one (and I think most FPV pilots) don't fly FPV from their club field therefore I don't expect to file an AMA insurance claim in the case of an accident. That's pretty much what we're talking about here, I guess the AMA is thinking everyone that flies FPV who is an AMA member is expecting to be covered by the AMA insurance.
 
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Carbon

Elemental Madness
#3
Yup. I have visited two AMA sanctioned fields and was disappointed in both. The people there were very stuck up and rude. They weren't even friendly after I mentioned I wasn't a large scale 3D pilot. AMA'ers are just being corn-holed by their own ignorance.This magazine is their way of feeling "important".
 

Tritium

Amateur Extra Class K5TWM
#4
:mad:AMA :mad: Let them just try to regulate me on private acreage! They are a Lobbying POLITICAL Organization with all the corruption, pits and downfalls of said same.

As far as insurance goes, I imagine that most homeowners policies have personal liability that could cover recreational accidents.

Thurmond
 

bicyclemonkey

Flying Derp
Mentor
#5
The rules put forth by the AMA are only rules that you have to follow if you are filing an AMA insurance claim or if you're flying at an AMA club field. The rules they have outlined are NOT laws that must legally be followed. They are only rules to be followed IF you want their insurance coverage.

If you fly regular line-of-sight traditional style RC, then you probably unknowingly follow all of their rules. It's just now with FPV in question that stupidity is showing. Just don't fly FPV at a club field and don't expect to use their insurance. (Speaking of which, no one at our AMA club has ever used the AMA insurance, and we have a lot of old timers there too.) It's stupid of the AMA to expect an FPV pilot to not fly out of the line of sight and to have a buddy box guy there with you at all times.
 

Ak Flyer

Fly the wings off
Mentor
#6
Wow, there's definitely some emotion around this topic.

Let's try to keep things in perspective. You have a group of people that have dedicated a lot of time and effort to keeping a sport alive that was nearly dead a few years back. They do lobby and they do politic to meet those ends. The recent years have seen a resurgence in the sport due to the onset of easy to own and fly foam models which have brought in tons of new people but most of them haven't spent months building a single plane from scratch haven't invested the money in their flying that the old timers have and many don't have any respect for the efforts of those that came before them. Believe it or not there has been a lot of effort to shut down our hobby entirely and if not for some of those old timers we wouldn't be enjoying it the way we do.

Now that's the AMA. Then there's local clubs. That's a different thing entirely. If a local club is full of jerks and they happen to be AMA members, then you can't blame the AMA for that. Blame the jerks. I have seen more than once where someone has a bad experience with a club and paints all AMA members as assholes ever after. That's like being robbed by a mexican and hating all mexicans after that. (My apologies to any mexicans, just needed an example.)

If you have a beef with a club or a beef with the AMA let's try to be reasonable and keep them separate.

I for one am an AMA member and if anyone thinks that I'm a jerk or stuck up or rude or unhelpful then blame me for that. I was the same before I signed up as I am now.

Now imagine you are one of those guys who's been scratch building stuff for years, spent a long time flying IMAC competitions and devoted a lot of time to your local club, done fund raisers, paid your dues, helped with maintenance etc. Now someone comes up with a foam plane with a camera strapped to it and starts flying it over the neighborhood that your club stays away from because they file noise complaints. Whether it's noisy or not, they are not RC friendly and try to shut you down. You would not be very supportive of someone coming in and placing the flying field you worked hard to keep at risk. Then the guy says that you are a jerk because you don't support fpv. I'm just saying, lets try to look at this from both sides.

That said, I have experienced the jerks who look down their nose at your foam planes, and I've experienced the great club experience where people were friendly and helpful and super supportive. They were all AMA members.

I haven't read that article so I won't comment on it. There's my opinion....let the beatings commence. :black_eyed:
 

lobstermash

Propaganda machine
Mentor
#8
I think the AMA and the other national bodies in other parts of the world are scared of FPV and don't really want their members doing it. And I don't blame them. It's new and different and scary, and if too many people pushed things too far with FPV and set the wheels in motion for the hobby (I refuse to call it a sport) to be banned, I'd want to be distancing myself from it too.

I'm not in a club or a member of the Australian insurance body (or should I say either of them), but I think FPV needs its own association separate to the Line of Site fliers (or LoSers for short ;) ). I know that many people do both, but I think there needs to be a visible divide so one group's existence and activity doesn't jeopardise the other's.
 

bicyclemonkey

Flying Derp
Mentor
#9
I'm an AMA member BTW, I have to be to also be a member of my local club. I don't mind being an AMA member at all and i realize they actually do great things for the hobby. The AMA is making the assumption that all FPV pilots want the full benefits of AMA membership. I actually haven't heard of any FPV flyers asking for AMA benefits.
 

pgerts

Old age member
Mentor
#10
I am also fond of the red Multiplex "Velcro" to keep my batteries in place.
Is there any "standard"? I use the "soft side" on the battery (and rx) and the harder hooks in the fuse.
 
#11
Hmm I'm on two minds with this. One one side, I find beuracracy and the general hierachical attitude that seems to pervade these organisations to be distasteful which is exactly why I refuse to fly with a club. I refuse to bow an scrape to any sort of a governing body simply because they wear a title. At the same time they do provide a relatively safe flying environment for those that are inclined to hand over their hard earned cash for some 'perceived' protection against accidents and the like.

Young Raphael (Trappy) gets zero love from me. I've had a couple of run ins with him over his Thailand and US antics and the complete lack of consideration that he has showed to either the local fliers nor to the residents of an already jittery city (NYC). My comments to him have always been respectful and complimentary with a friendly suggestion that he should be a little more careful and a little more considerate of the possible effects of his actions. His response is one of playground antics and baseless insults. On RCGroups he actually created a profile called STEVEOTRAPPY to attack me and when that one got blocked created another STEVEOTRAPPY2 and continued. I'm sorry but I think that he has great potential to do more damage to the hobby than good and on a personal level I don't take kindly to being baselessly insulted and bullied simply because I might have a differing opinion to his. TBS appears to have little inclination to look out for their fellow FPVers and are more interested in showboating and being attitude filled rebels. It was disappointing because up until that point I was full of nothing but respect and praise for those lads.

As you guys know I spend quite a bit of time around full sized aircraft and I've seen what effect something as small as a seagull can have on a full sized plane. I've seen the hole in the side of a military jet when a bird went in the right air intake, ingested in the compressor blades and subsequently thrown out the left side of the fuselage. As much as TBS might say that their 500g flying wings aren't going to hurt anyone, I'll tell you for free that they are entirely wrong and are being willfully naive.

FPV should be protected and it should be something that we should be able to continue to do but it should absolutely be done in a safe and considerate manner because one day someone is going to be at high altitude and it's not going to be the loss of a $2000 flying wing that will be cause for concern. It will be the 100-400 odd passengers lives put at risk. Do not for a moment think that the rules aren't in place for good reason.

AK Flyer, you have struck at the core of it - it is for sure about consideration and realising that there may be more peoples enjoyment at risk. The TBS lads rocking into the US, shaking up the authorities and then rocking on out again smacks of inconsideration and there have already been roll on effects from their flying in the Grand Canyon National Park where all RC flying has been banned in any shape and form.
 
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#12
In Holland we have the exact same problem, people like sander sassen from Immersion RC (developer and creator of Immersion RC gear) have reached out (several times) to the dutch AMA to share his knowledge about FPV. But it never happened because they just did not wanted him to come and show them FPV. I think allot of FPV-ers in different countries have these problems...
 
#13
If this is the same Sander that I've come across in my FPV exploration, then from what I've read, he's a fairly abraisive character as well. It seems to me that a large part of the problem is that quite a few of the FPV crew are coming from a very 'outsider' style approach to the hobby. Pushing the limits and being a rebel seem to go hand in hand and when it comes to an organisation like the AMA, it doesn't take a big leap to see that a relatively conservative bunch aren't going to take kindly to being preached to by those that are already well aquainted with breaking the rules.

These guys are clearly extraordinarily smart and have a great grip on technology but their grip on social graces and a concept of community seems to be tenuous at best. Whilst they're bringing the hobby along technologically in leaps and bounds their actions have the potential for all their hard work to be for nothing because the authorities are going to make it nigh on impossible to engage in this activity outside of having an actual pilots licence or being in a tightly controlled and sanctioned scenario.

I'm not suggesting that there aren't elements within the AMA that need to pull their heads out of their proverbial rear ends and quit being elitist but the meeting between the two needs to be on a middle ground rather than being told 'this is how it is, you'd better like it because we're going to do what the hell we like regardless'. It's hard to be welcoming when all you get in return is attitude and thinly veiled scorn.
 

bicyclemonkey

Flying Derp
Mentor
#14
I am also fond of the red Multiplex "Velcro" to keep my batteries in place.
Is there any "standard"? I use the "soft side" on the battery (and rx) and the harder hooks in the fuse.
Nice catch there! When I first looked it appeared that it was just red tape but on further inspection it's red velcro.
 
#19
If this is the same Sander that I've come across in my FPV exploration, then from what I've read, he's a fairly abraisive character as well. It seems to me that a large part of the problem is that quite a few of the FPV crew are coming from a very 'outsider' style approach to the hobby. Pushing the limits and being a rebel seem to go hand in hand and when it comes to an organisation like the AMA, it doesn't take a big leap to see that a relatively conservative bunch aren't going to take kindly to being preached to by those that are already well aquainted with breaking the rules.

These guys are clearly extraordinarily smart and have a great grip on technology but their grip on social graces and a concept of community seems to be tenuous at best. Whilst they're bringing the hobby along technologically in leaps and bounds their actions have the potential for all their hard work to be for nothing because the authorities are going to make it nigh on impossible to engage in this activity outside of having an actual pilots licence or being in a tightly controlled and sanctioned scenario.

I'm not suggesting that there aren't elements within the AMA that need to pull their heads out of their proverbial rear ends and quit being elitist but the meeting between the two needs to be on a middle ground rather than being told 'this is how it is, you'd better like it because we're going to do what the hell we like regardless'. It's hard to be welcoming when all you get in return is attitude and thinly veiled scorn.
I think it is the same sander. He is quite active on forums.

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Tip: When I am at rc clubs they ask me about the range and safety off FPV. I always tell them that people have flown my setup for 20Km (which is true) but that I dont fly further then 8Km.
 
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