JasonK
Participation Award Recipient
yah, that is what I was eluding to in my post, but I wasn't 100% sure that was correct. If you fly at an AMA field, the most likely damage is going to be member to member claims.... and given above....
Joining AMA
- Thread starter SSgt Duramax
- Start date
yah, that is what I was eluding to in my post, but I wasn't 100% sure that was correct. If you fly at an AMA field, the most likely damage is going to be member to member claims.... and given above....
Piotrsko
Master member
Yup if you exclude 98.5% of possible claims, your million dollar policy vets to be really cheap since there's almost no risk to the insurer for the money collected.
Ever notice they want notification for public participation in events?
You tube doesn't tell you about this stuff. Shame on them.
Ever notice they want notification for public participation in events?
You tube doesn't tell you about this stuff. Shame on them.
SSgt Duramax
Junior Member
I need to check more into how my homeowners insurance covers me for liability. I thought it was just limited to my personal property and any events there.
It looks like a back up policy that really doesn't cover a whole lot, so it is basically down to do I want to join this club or not. Outside of that, I don't know how it really benefits me.
Even looking at the incident coverage, $10,000 accidental death, $25,000 medical isn't a whole lot in 2022.
Piotrsko
Master member
Depending on who it is, homeowners insurance covers you kind of except when you're in a car using that insurance or using health insurance. Look in the exclusions section or statement of coverage. Varies by state also.
I'm not an expert here but I can play one on the internet
I'm not an expert here but I can play one on the internet
Bricks
Master member
From what I can find it does not cover if the person or property is your immediate family, other then that it does.
Doesn`t cover air to air but would cover you if it hit someone else`s vehicle and your other insurance did not cover it.
They did cover a scale plane when we had the old 72 mhz, the person in charge of the flags for frequency gave out the wrong one and caused the crash.
Piotrsko
Master member
Did you notice the comment about the windshield? Personal experience, and they refused to pay, pointed to exclusions, said, "sorry, no pay, not covered". We parted ways soon after when they became "too busy" to assist in preventing the closure of a couple of semi famous model airports in SOCAL.
skymaster
Elite member
Ok so if my home insurance or car insurance does not cover me, and i just read that your AMA is a secondary insurance which they are not going to give you shit. why dont we make our own insurance?
Academy of Model Aeronautics (modelaircraft.org)
Academy of Model Aeronautics (modelaircraft.org)
Tench745
Master member
I see no reason one couldn't start their own insurance. There will be obstacles though. I think most insurance companies would need to see some history of related claims to assess the risk they are taking in insuring a group of RC flyers. This means that the premiums would likely be higher until the insured group had been around for a number of years. Of course, having a larger number of insured parties paying into that plan also mitigates risk to the insurer, so the more members you could put on the policy, the lower their individual rates would be. So, between those two factors, I am guessing (only guessing) that it would probably take a number of years for the insured group to become large enough to bring the insurance rates down to something on par with the AMA. Of course, AMA dues also go to covering the costs of national competitions, a monthly magazine, advertising, employee salaries, etc. So maybe a purely insurance-based organization would be able to have lesser fees. I don't know.
Bricks
Master member
AMA insurance is actually considered third party insurance, any insurance you have home, personnel liability or umbrella liability this insurance gets sucked up first and if the claim is more then and only then does AMA step in.
Here's why joining AMA is going to be beneficial (at least right now):
The AMA is currently the only recognized Community Based Organization (CBO) by the FAA.
Flite Test is not, at least not yet. Will they be a CBO? Likely, yes, but their application is still under review and will likely need to meet the following requirements, as listed on the FAA webpage:
Community Based Organizations (CBOs) that meet the statutory definition in Section 44809(h) of the Exception for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned Aircraft, may apply for FAA recognition:
Now, does the above mean that FTCA won't get CBO status? No. I think they likely will, but it's probably not going to be until after the first of the year at the earliest, and likely not until first quarter of 2023 with how government bodies are going to go on vacation between now and the first of the year.
Why does that CBO status mean anything? Because CBOs are the only ones that can apply for FRIA status (FAA Recognized Identification Areas) for a flying site. You want to fly aircraft, you will need to be either flying with a Remote ID device (which the only ones that are currently planned are in the $200 price range), or you'll need to be flying at a FRIA, which will need to be established by a CBO. Seeing that the AMA is the only CBO recognized by the FAA at this time, they're getting the jump on submitting for FRIAs for AMA established fields like the field at Muncie, or my current club's location here in San Diego (we're actually part of the trial submission for a small group of clubs for FRIAs). Anyone who wants to fly at a FRIA established by the AMA, I can almost guarantee is going to need to be an AMA member.
So...do you need to join the AMA? No. But if you want to participate in AMA events, or fly at AMA fields, yes, and I can almost guarantee you'll need it to fly at AMA established FRIAs because they'll likely be AMA fields.
And if you're just going to be illegal and not pay attention to the laws, that's on you - this isn't going to apply to you anyway.
The AMA is currently the only recognized Community Based Organization (CBO) by the FAA.
Flite Test is not, at least not yet. Will they be a CBO? Likely, yes, but their application is still under review and will likely need to meet the following requirements, as listed on the FAA webpage:
Community Based Organizations (CBOs) that meet the statutory definition in Section 44809(h) of the Exception for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned Aircraft, may apply for FAA recognition:
- Described in section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986;
- Exempt from tax under section 501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986;
- Mission of which is demonstrably the furtherance of model aviation;
- Provide a comprehensive set of safety guidelines for all aspects of model aviation;
- Provide programming and support for any local charter organizations, affiliates, or clubs; and
- Provide assistance and support in the development and operation of locally designated model aircraft flying sites
Now, does the above mean that FTCA won't get CBO status? No. I think they likely will, but it's probably not going to be until after the first of the year at the earliest, and likely not until first quarter of 2023 with how government bodies are going to go on vacation between now and the first of the year.
Why does that CBO status mean anything? Because CBOs are the only ones that can apply for FRIA status (FAA Recognized Identification Areas) for a flying site. You want to fly aircraft, you will need to be either flying with a Remote ID device (which the only ones that are currently planned are in the $200 price range), or you'll need to be flying at a FRIA, which will need to be established by a CBO. Seeing that the AMA is the only CBO recognized by the FAA at this time, they're getting the jump on submitting for FRIAs for AMA established fields like the field at Muncie, or my current club's location here in San Diego (we're actually part of the trial submission for a small group of clubs for FRIAs). Anyone who wants to fly at a FRIA established by the AMA, I can almost guarantee is going to need to be an AMA member.
So...do you need to join the AMA? No. But if you want to participate in AMA events, or fly at AMA fields, yes, and I can almost guarantee you'll need it to fly at AMA established FRIAs because they'll likely be AMA fields.
And if you're just going to be illegal and not pay attention to the laws, that's on you - this isn't going to apply to you anyway.
CappyAmeric
Elite member
I will be leaving the AMA. They sold their members down the river over RemoteID, hoping to be eaten last I suppose.
It has become an absurdity, epitomized in their ridiculous “no 6s LIPOs” rule. Xjet has correctly noted: the AMA is now simply an enforcement arm for the FAA, and a bumbling one at that.
I am getting more and more serious about turning my back on any organization that enables others to trample our freedoms in the pursuit of “safety.”
It has become an absurdity, epitomized in their ridiculous “no 6s LIPOs” rule. Xjet has correctly noted: the AMA is now simply an enforcement arm for the FAA, and a bumbling one at that.
I am getting more and more serious about turning my back on any organization that enables others to trample our freedoms in the pursuit of “safety.”
Flying Monkey fab
Elite member
Bricks
Master member
Any local club can become a CBO the FRIA just makes it easier in general for the club aspect.
In reality AMA is not needed if each club wanted to become a CBO and filled out the application properly.
A CBO is nothing more than a nonprofit community organization, there are thousands and thousands of them, just about every organization in your local community is a CBO..
In reality AMA is not needed if each club wanted to become a CBO and filled out the application properly.
A CBO is nothing more than a nonprofit community organization, there are thousands and thousands of them, just about every organization in your local community is a CBO..
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In theory you are correct. That is the way it should work.
But I’m not sure your theory is correct. I’m not sure that is how it will work. We will see just have to wait a s see if any other CBO’s get approved by the FAA. The AMA has history of limiting competition. I find it curious the FTCA is no longer talking about offering liability insurance to us.
I hope my concerns are unfounded and it works as you suggest.
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Tench745
Master member
The FTCA mentioned insurance in a podcast, maybe a year ago. They basically said "Most of the time it's a waste of money. So far, liability waivers have worked well at Flite Fest and Edgewater."
I suppose you are correct, most of the time insurance is a waist of money. I have insured my house for 30+ years and have never had a fire. I guess I waisted my money. I think keep on wasting my money. I’m going keep paying my insurance premium on my house. Who knows I may have a fire this year.
If you think you buy into make money, you don’t understand insurance. I admit some people do buy insurance to make money, they usually end up in jail for arson.
Liability wavers may off some protection to Flite Fest and the landowner. But I doubt the waver offers and protection to you or me. If you or I caused damage to anyone or their property we wlll be held liable for the damage. The liability waiver makes you and me responsible for our actions. Liability waivers are no substitute for insurance.
I hope FTCA will compete with the AMA and offer liability insurance. If they do, I doubt the AMA will look kindly on them.
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JasonK
Participation Award Recipient
sorry what now? is there some thing magical about 6s that makes it more dangerous the an equivelent WH 3s? [for example] - I get higher voltage can 'jump' larger gaps, but we are still way below any sort of serious jumping distances. and does that allow 2 3s lipos in series? [which is all a 6s lipo is... 6 1s lipos in series all packed together...]
WillL84
Active member
USCCA FTW
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