Help! Sudden or no sufficient power from battery to motor, ESC heat up.

[Karthik1130]

Hello all, today took the maiden of FT Delta (Belly Lander) under 25km/h wind.
The following were the hardware:
1) A2212 6T 2200kV motor
2) Simonk 30A ESC
3) 2s(850mAh) & 3s(1300mAh)
4) 6045 plastic three bladed propeller
No landing gear was used as I tried to belly land.

The following were the things noticed during flight:
1) During the flight suddenly motor lost power and when checked the battery voltage after emergency landing, the voltage was still 3.8V.
2) Next time, during take-off there was not sufficient power coming to the motor from fully charged 2s battery in full throttle ,and the plane was literally stalling 8 feet above ground with no air speed.When inspected the ESC,it was found hot and insulation cover melted and ESC got sticked onto the powerpod foam in heat.

Why this should happen! Though this ESC is 2-3s compatible, this loss of sudden or no sufficient power to motor at full throttle happened.
Should I not use this ESC at high wind speed like 20km/h ? or am I missing something here?
Please help!

 

[bearit]

Hello all, today took the maiden of FT Delta (Belly Lander) under 25km/h wind.
The following were the hardware:
1) A2212 6T 2200kV motor
2) Simonk 30A ESC
3) 2s(850mAh) & 3s(1300mAh)
4) 6045 plastic three bladed propeller
No landing gear was used as I tried to belly land.

The following were the things noticed during flight:
1) During the flight suddenly motor lost power and when checked the battery voltage after emergency landing, the voltage was still 3.8V.
2) Next time, during take-off there was not sufficient power coming to the motor from fully charged 2s battery in full throttle ,and the plane was literally stalling 8 feet above ground with no air speed.When inspected the ESC,it was found hot and insulation cover melted and ESC got sticked onto the powerpod foam in heat.

Why this should happen! Though this ESC is 2-3s compatible, this loss of sudden or no sufficient power to motor at full throttle happened.
Should I not use this ESC at high wind speed like 20km/h ? or am I missing something here?
Please help!

 

[bearit]

Hello all, today took the maiden of FT Delta (Belly Lander) under 25km/h wind.
The following were the hardware:
1) A2212 6T 2200kV motor
2) Simonk 30A ESC
3) 2s(850mAh) & 3s(1300mAh)
4) 6045 plastic three bladed propeller
No landing gear was used as I tried to belly land.

The following were the things noticed during flight:
1) During the flight suddenly motor lost power and when checked the battery voltage after emergency landing, the voltage was still 3.8V.
2) Next time, during take-off there was not sufficient power coming to the motor from fully charged 2s battery in full throttle ,and the plane was literally stalling 8 feet above ground with no air speed.When inspected the ESC,it was found hot and insulation cover melted and ESC got sticked onto the powerpod foam in heat.

Why this should happen! Though this ESC is 2-3s compatible, this loss of sudden or no sufficient power to motor at full throttle happened.
Should I not use this ESC at high wind speed like 20km/h ? or am I missing something here?
Please help!

Are you using the swollen battery on that?

 

[Foamforce]

The motor drew more amps than the ESC was capable of handling. Also, if the ESC had inadequate airflow, that would contribute.

The best way to prevent this is to get an amp tester. Run up your motor and the prop you’re planning on using, and make sure that the amps don’t exceed the rating on either the motor or the ESC. If it exceeds those numbers for long, it will burn out.

The easy way is to use the charts that are usually provided with motors to see how many amps it’s expected to draw with a given prop.

 

[Karthik1130]

Are you using the swollen battery on that?

Yes, I did use that swollen 3s, and could see high power output compared to 2s. The 3s plane could able to handle that heavy wind. But the thing was I could feel no enough power from 2s battery under 25km/h wind. It was literally unable to go against wind and reach atleast 15 feet.

 

[Karthik1130]

The motor drew more amps than the ESC was capable of handling. Also, if the ESC had inadequate airflow, that would contribute.

The best way to prevent this is to get an amp tester. Run up your motor and the prop you’re planning on using, and make sure that the amps don’t exceed the rating on either the motor or the ESC. If it exceeds those numbers for long, it will burn out.

The easy way is to use the charts that are usually provided with motors to see how many amps it’s expected to draw with a given prop.

In the chart its mentioned load current of 21.5A with 6045 prop.
I did use this same electronics combination @15km/h wind with 2s 850mAh batteries for 3 minute session for five batteries, and at the end observed no heat/melting of ESC or loss of power to motor during flights.

Should I not fly under heavy winds? Will not the ESC handle?

 

[bearit]

Yes, I did use that swollen 3s, and could see high power output compared to 2s. The 3s plane could able to handle that heavy wind. But the thing was I could feel no enough power from 2s battery under 25km/h wind. It was literally unable to go against wind and reach atleast 15 feet.

wow your asking for trouble using that battery and you are using a cheap Esc that will fail be careful sounds like a crash is in your future if you continue to use bad or failing equipment

 

[Foamforce]

In the chart its mentioned load current of 21.5A with 6045 prop.
I did use this same electronics combination @15km/h wind with 2s 850mAh batteries for 3 minute session for five batteries, and at the end observed no heat/melting of ESC or loss of power to motor during flights.

Should I not fly under heavy winds? Will not the ESC handle?

But was that a 2 blade 6045 prop? A 3 blade will use considerably higher amps.

Running at 2s pulls far fewer amps which is why that didn’t heat up. Brushless motors have an unusual relationship between volts and amps. In most devices, increasing the volts doesn’t also increase the amps. However, in brushless motors, when you increase the volts, that increases the kv of the motor, which in turn draws more amps. So yes, amps go up when volts go up with brushless motors.

The wind isn’t a factor other than you may be using higher throttle to fly against it. Full throttle is full throttle whether there’s high wind or no wind.

This is entirely about the motor+prop combination pulling more amps than your motor could handle.

PS, when you pull too many amps, either the ESC or the motor will burn whichever reaches its limit first. If you’re unlucky and they’re really well balanced, you can burn them both out.

 

[Karthik1130]

But was that a 2 blade 6045 prop? A 3 blade will use considerably higher amps.

Running at 2s pulls far fewer amps which is why that didn’t heat up. Brushless motors have an unusual relationship between volts and amps. In most devices, increasing the volts doesn’t also increase the amps. However, in brushless motors, when you increase the volts, that increases the kv of the motor, which in turn draws more amps. So yes, amps go up when volts go up with brushless motors.

The wind isn’t a factor other than you may be using higher throttle to fly against it. Full throttle is full throttle whether there’s high wind or no wind.

This is entirely about the motor+prop combination pulling more amps than your motor could handle.

PS, when you pull too many amps, either the ESC or the motor will burn whichever reaches its limit first. If you’re unlucky and they’re really well balanced, you can burn them both out.

Thanks a lot for the detailed information. I have one more query , with respect to CG of this delta. When I balance with a little touch nose down, the plane behaves tail heavy in flight, and starts to loop on its own, and becomes difficult to control the plane, to land safely as it keeps on looping.
But,when I make the CG balance with more nose down (heavy) by moving the battery ahead of CG point the plane flies well balanced.
why is it so? Am I missing something here?

 

[Burnhard]

But was that a 2 blade 6045 prop? A 3 blade will use considerably higher amps.

Running at 2s pulls far fewer amps which is why that didn’t heat up. Brushless motors have an unusual relationship between volts and amps. In most devices, increasing the volts doesn’t also increase the amps. However, in brushless motors, when you increase the volts, that increases the kv of the motor, which in turn draws more amps. So yes, amps go up when volts go up with brushless motors.

The wind isn’t a factor other than you may be using higher throttle to fly against it. Full throttle is full throttle whether there’s high wind or no wind.

This is entirely about the motor+prop combination pulling more amps than your motor could handle.

PS, when you pull too many amps, either the ESC or the motor will burn whichever reaches its limit first. If you’re unlucky and they’re really well balanced, you can burn them both out.

It says at the beginning that it is a three bladed prop.

 

[Merv]

I agree with @Foamforce, the 3 blade 6x4.5 prop was too much for 3S.

All brushless motors spin faster as the voltage increases. The kv rating of a motor determines the RPM's per volt. Example, a 1,000kv motor will spin 10,000 RPM'S on 10 volts & 14,000 RPM's on 14 volts. The faster you spin a prop, the harder it will pull, the more amps it will draw. To prevent the amp draw from exceeding the motor rating, you need a smaller prop. A watt meter is a very cheap & useful tool when trying a new prop combination.

 

[Merv]

...But,when I make the CG balance with more nose down (heavy) by moving the battery ahead of CG point the plane flies well balanced.
why is it so? Am I missing something here?

It sounds to me like you need to trim the plane using the trim tabs on your transmitter to make the plane fly straight and level. All planes are difficult to fly until they are trimed out.

CG location is a matter of personal choice. Most planes have a CG range, nose heavy planes are more stable, tail heavy are more unstable. As a beginner, keep the CG on the nose heavy side. As your flying skills improve, try moving the CG aft.

 

[Karthik1130]

Thanks everyone for your inputs, got Readytosky 2-6S 40A opto esc with 5V UBEC and gonna test it. Can we use 5inch tri blade prop with the A2212 2200kV motor?

 

[Merv]

...Can we use 5inch tri blade prop with the A2212 2200kV motor?

On 2S, yes, on 3S maybe.

You should test it on 3S. On the ground, run it full throttle for 10 seconds, the stop, check the temperatures of the motor, esc & battery by touching them. Warm is OK, but if so hot you don't want to hold them, then stop. Try a smaller prop. If it passes, try a 30 second run, then check the temps. If it passes, try a 60 second run & check the temps again. If it passes, it's time for a fly. It always a good practice to check the temp of everything when you land. Stuff that worked when it mild outside, may over heat when it's hot outside.

Keep in mind that 3 blade props are less efficient than 2 blades.

 

[Karthik1130]

Today flew the FT Delta. Initially,
the plane didn't fly at all even though the CG was balanced as per the drawing, with little nose touch down as shown in the build video by Josh. The plane was always tail heavy during flight and didn't fly. It's definitely not a trimming issue.
So, I moved all the electronics, including battery to the front end of the powerpod, and when balance checked with the CG point, it was found the nose was remarkably down, compared to the position of nose shown in the Flite test build video, and the plane flew beautifully with 2S 850mAh and 3S 1000mAh battery and 6inch prop.

Why this is happening?
Is there something wrong with the CG point in drawing?

 

[Foamforce]

Today flew the FT Delta. Initially,
the plane didn't fly at all even though the CG was balanced as per the drawing, with little nose touch down as shown in the build video by Josh. The plane was always tail heavy during flight and didn't fly. It's definitely not a trimming issue.
So, I moved all the electronics, including battery to the front end of the powerpod, and when balance checked with the CG point, it was found the nose was remarkably down, compared to the position of nose shown in the Flite test build video, and the plane flew beautifully with 2S 850mAh and 3S 1000mAh battery and 6inch prop.

Why this is happening?
Is there something wrong with the CG point in drawing?

I think the drawings are ok. I’ve built a couple of them successfully. The Delta has a reputation is being a difficult to fly plane, although if it’s kept light and flown slowly, it can be an easy flier.

One guess is that maybe your control throws were too high for your experience level, and making it very nose heavy compensated for that by making out more stable. The elevons on it are very large, so you need less movement than on other planes. Also, with a 2200kv motor, you’re going to be flying out pretty fast which makes it twitchier.

Best guess!

 

[Karthik1130]

I think the drawings are ok. I’ve built a couple of them successfully. The Delta has a reputation is being a difficult to fly plane, although if it’s kept light and flown slowly, it can be an easy flier.

One guess is that maybe your control throws were too high for your experience level, and making it very nose heavy compensated for that by making out more stable. The elevons on it are very large, so you need less movement than on other planes. Also, with a 2200kv motor, you’re going to be flying out pretty fast which makes it twitchier.

Best guess!

Now I would like to know the what is the function of CG.

control throws were set to low here, and in order for the control throws to come in to picture here, the plane should fly level without any control inputs for elevons.

I don't think control throws or control surfaces or this fast 2212 motor is the reason.
There should be something else ,I guess.

 

[Foamforce]

I don't think control throws or control surfaces or this fast 2212 motor is the reason.
There should be something else ,I guess.

Could you gone some detail about how it wouldn’t fly? Why did you think that it was tail heavy and why do you think it definitely wasn’t a trimming issue?

 

[Karthik1130]

Could you gone some detail about how it wouldn’t fly? Why did you think that it was tail heavy and why do you think it definitely wasn’t a trimming issue?

Because we can't trim before we even hand launch the plane right? I am not sure what else could be the reason

 

[Merv]

...The plane was always tail heavy during flight and didn't fly...

I agree with Foamforce, can you be more descriptive, what is the plane doing. Just climbing or looping, that is not an indication of tail heavy.
Every plane I have build, you fly it, then adjust the trim it to make it fly straight & level. Often it rolls to one side & climbs or drops, what ever it does, you trim the error out.

...Is there something wrong with the CG point in drawing?

It is entirely possible the CG is off on the plans. I have had similar issues with the Tiny Trainer, but with the TT, climbing was not the issue. When you pulled up on the elevator, the wing stalled & it dropped out of the sky.

If it fly's well with the CG forward of the suggested location, then go for it. I'm in the camp if it is not broken, don't fix it. Move the plane until it balances level on your fingers, then tell us how far forward you have moved the CG.