Help! Transmitter Set Up

[Hai-Lee]

Motorcycle on a curve. Lean into it, bring it back out. I keep using motorcycle analoges, but they seem to work for me.

From what we've covered thus far, though, the rudder changes sticks, from three to four channel.

Yes the rudder does move from ch1 to ch4 when you go from 3 channel to 4 channel operation BUT the turn always remains on channel 1.

On 3 channel the rudder is the only turn mechanism and if you are not to spiral into the ground you normally combine its operation with a little up elevator.
On 4 channel the aileron is used to roll the aircraft and when a little up elevator is added the turn commences. The rudder is relegated to a yaw control to tidy up the turn and is not necessary but a nice addition.

If you can fly with rudder in ch1 then try a yank and bank with the aileron in ch1 the only real differences you will find or discover is that using the aileron to turn you do not encounter "Dutch roll" and the turns can be far tighter or more rapid but mainly due to the use of the elevator to drive the plane around the turn!

Do not fret about it as it is so very similar that you will wonder why you worried after a few flights. At least initially keep the rates down on the ailerons until you are used ot how much more responsive an aileron turn can be.

Have fun!

 

[buzzbomb]

Motorcycles are a lot more complicated. They're easy to ride, but most people don't understand how they steer. You hear of people saying it's done by leaning and/or weight transfer. It's possible to make slight turns like that, but I can guarantee that you wouldn't win any races. What you actually do is turn the handlebars the opposite way to what you want to turn to initiate the turn, then pull them into the turn to straighten back up. It's all done with gyroscopes, which are completely counter-intuitive, and Flemmings right hand rule. Then, just when you think you've understood that, it all reverses when your speed goes below 10 mph, so you have to turn left to go left. That's because the gyroscopic effect becomes less significant at low speed. Can you imagine turning your rudder different ways depending on what speed you were flying? That would be some challenge, though somehow we master it with motorcycles!

In case I've confused you, here's a video that explains the basics:

It took me twenty or so years before I learned that's what I was actually doing. Here's me running the Tail of the Dragon in 2013. The road was beyond my skill level to run fast. It even had my knees and elbows stuck out. Anyway, look at the angle of the front wheel. I'm trying to knee drag on the right, and the the handlebars are turned to the left. Perfectly illustrates your point.

 

[buzzbomb]

Back to RC aircraft. We've learned I don't know what I'm doing with the trans and have little understanding of what is needed to set it up, though ya'll have been a big help, I have no idea how to set up throws, dual rates and expo on a Turnigy 9x. This is something I really want to do, so I'm going to keep plugging away.

I've found videos and posts about it, but they're speaking above my head about helicopters, or it's a video of some guy saying "I have no idea what most these settings are, but here's what I did." None of that will help my actual understanding of programming the thing.

I will eventually figure it out. I've said before, I'm hard-headed. With ya'lls help and whole lot of frustration, I'll figure it out.

The current question then becomes, should I invest that time and effort to learn the current firmware, or just flash the thing to OpenTX? There is so much more content and information for using OpenTX. I think it would definitely shorten the learning curve, and leave me better off in the end. I just don't know if that is actually the case.

 

[Hai-Lee]

As you may be aware I am definitely old school in a lot of my thinking, (often politically incorrect and even outspoken), but to me nothing beats the reading of a manual unless it id the reading of a manual whilst going through a training session or video.

If you do not have the manual to hand here is an "e" copy which with a little careful reading makes it somewhat clear even to me!

Have fun!

 

[d8veh]

I can almost guarantee that installing Open tx is not going to make it easier. Also, it might not be as simple as simply flashing. My friend had to do some electronic mods before he could flash his.

I can't believe that setting up throws and dual-rates is going to be difficult if you read the manual. For throws, it'll be something like: press a menu button; scroll down; select a channel; change a number from 100 to 80 or whatever; repeat for any other channels you want to set the throws for. Dual rates will be even easier.

 

[buzzbomb]

I am the very odd man who actually appreciates a manual. Maybe because of all the lego's and plastic models I built as a child. I would beg my parents on the way home from the store, where I just spent my allowance on an airplane model to let me open the box and read the manual. They always said no. They didn't want me to lose any parts. Good memories.

I've got two versions of the manual for the Turnigy. One is what came with it, and the other is from another company which makes the same transmitter, but has better translators. The problem I'm finding with the Turnigy is I'm looking for a setting for "throws" for instance. There is no setting named that.

Just to name a plane you have to push the directional button right, to go left in the in the letter wall, and it gets more confusing after that. Go off the right end and the cursor goes down. The up and down menu buttons change which letter your trying to replace in the name "Turnigy 1." The cursor doesn't actually go up or down. It goes side to side. In a different part of the window. There's more. Working through all that on a letter wall with both upper and lower case characters, plus numbers? That's just to give the plane a name.

I checked out the pdf hai-lee posted. I'm not sure what it's for. Page one and page eight are different transmitters, and I'm afraid the firmware is completely different from my Turnigy. Here's a pic of the one I've got.

Here's the better worded manual.

http://www.ky-model.com/copterx/cx-ct9a_manual.pdf

Maybe ya'll can help me with it. Throws, expos and dual rates. Lord knows I haven't been able to work it out. That's pretty much why I decided to just enjoy the sim experience and fly 100% everything. Then I found out my control scheme was screwed. Wow.

Maybe ya'll can make sense of it.

 

[buzzbomb]

d8veh, you've made me nostalgic. I miss my Tora Tanshi. Here's the day I got her:

It was about 50 degrees F. Pretty cold for a two-hour ride on a motorcycle. My mother took us up there, and followed us home. My son didn't want to leave the back of the bike, even though he was freezing. I didn't have the full riding gear, back then. It all came with time. All awesome memories and pictures I haven't looked at in years.

That's part of the reason I love this family. They may only be foamboard RC aricraft but we just never know where it's going to lead. Good Stuff. I'll be staring at this picture for a little while now. That kid is 18 now and he just joined the Army. Wow.

 

[buzzbomb]

Everyone? It happens that quick, man. I made him the big man in third grade by taking him to school on the back of a different motorcycle than the one above. He had a chorus recital in grade school. An award ceremony in his 10th grade year. Lots of stuff in between, but snap a finger. He's 18.

If you've got little ones? There really is no preparation for it. You'll hear it hundreds of times, but it all happens so fast. I've some pictures and some video. My generation happened when that was just all becoming possible. Don't miss it. Record it either on still or video, so you can feel what I am feeling now. You'll appreciate it. You've just got to trust me on that one.

 

[d8veh]

Everything you need is here. It explains your settings menu around page 16 onwards. E.POINTS is throws and D/R EXPO is dual rates and expo.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1shpi8yxM-X15KNc8zGgt4

 

[buzzbomb]

Everything you need is here. It explains your settings menu around page 16 onwards. E.POINTS is throws and D/R EXPO is dual rates and expo.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1shpi8yxM-X15KNc8zGgt4

I get it now! OK. I just could not figure that out. d8veh, you've taken away my 100% everything approach. It was fun in the sim. I'm smart enough to realize I probably don't have that kind of skill in real life (or in the sim, come to think of it).

Now maybe, I can set up my trans to fly my TT. Gonna hit it right now. Thanks, man.

 

[Hai-Lee]

I get it now! OK. I just could not figure that out. d8veh, you've taken away my 100% everything approach. It was fun in the sim. I'm smart enough to realize I probably don't have that kind of skill in real life (or in the sim, come to think of it).

Now maybe, I can set up my trans to fly my TT. Gonna hit it right now. Thanks, man.

It sounds like you will soon discover the difference between a Sim and the real world! Do not forget to do a post on the experience for others to read and learn from!

Time to cross the threshold!

Have fun!

 

[buzzbomb]

Do not forget to do a post on the experience for others to read and learn from!

As always, my friend. As always. The Journey Continues.

 

[buzzbomb]

OK. I'm going through the menu and setting stuff up. I want to make sure my understanding of what I'm setting up is correct.

Throw. The maximum extent the servo can move a control surface. On the TT it's recommended to be 16 degrees. (No wonder I was dogfighting that thing in the sim at 100%! Mayan really recognized that plane's potential.)

Expo. The difference between stick movement and control surface movement. Generally set at 30%. It limits the movement of the control surfaces up to, in this case, 30% of total stick movement, and then quickly ramps up to 100% if you push the stick to its extent.

Duel Rates. I've had a hard time understanding that one. It's a switch. You flip it and it changes the throw. With the dual rate I can learn to fly at the recommended throw, and then flip the switch and I can get stupid at 100%.

I've been all over this forum, all over the internet and finally, finally. I found this guy.

I'm the dummy here. I've read so many times on this forum what it is, I just couldn't get it. That video? It sunk in. I get it. Partly is was my further research in understanding what throw was.

Gentleman, I've yet to program it, but is my understanding of what I'm trying to program now correct? If so, I think I can do it.

 

[d8veh]

Not quite right. Set the end points to give the throws that FT recommend when the dual-rate switch is on high, then use the dual-rate switch to reduce that to between 75% and 60% of that amount when it's on low, so if they say 16 deg, it'll be 16 deg on high and say 11 deg on low. The normal or recommended amount of movement is for normally experienced pilots, who want a normal amount of control. The idea is to have that available with the switch/es set to high, but a newb would want yo cut that down a bit with the switch/es set to low.

Your aim should be to get the correct amount of movement by using the appropriate push-rod holes in horns with the transmitter set to 100% rather than doing it with the transmitter because when you do it on the transmitter, you lose resolution, so it gives you less precise control. That's not really a problem down to say 75%, but you'd notice it at 30%.

You sometimes get the situation where something isn't built straight and the low rate doesn't give enough movement to overcome that, so unless the plane is built very straight, it's a good idea to take-off or launch the maiden on high rates, then switch to low when you have a safe height. The problem is that it's a lot to think about while you're panicking trying to keep the plane in the air. That's why it's a good idea to write down the flight instructions and give them to someone else to read back to you while you're doing it.

 

[Hai-Lee]

OK. I'm going through the menu and setting stuff up. I want to make sure my understanding of what I'm setting up is correct.

Throw. The maximum extent the servo can move a control surface. On the TT it's recommended to be 16 degrees. (No wonder I was dogfighting that thing in the sim at 100%! Mayan really recognized that plane's potential.)

Expo. The difference between stick movement and control surface movement. Generally set at 30%. It limits the movement of the control surfaces up to, in this case, 30% of total stick movement, and then quickly ramps up to 100% if you push the stick to its extent.

Duel Rates. I've had a hard time understanding that one. It's a switch. You flip it and it changes the throw. With the dual rate I can learn to fly at the recommended throw, and then flip the switch and I can get stupid at 100%.

I've been all over this forum, all over the internet and finally, finally. I found this guy.

I'm the dummy here. I've read so many times on this forum what it is, I just couldn't get it. That video? It sunk in. I get it. Partly is was my further research in understanding what throw was.

Gentleman, I've yet to program it, but is my understanding of what I'm trying to program now correct? If so, I think I can do it.

Basically what you have written is a good enough understanding.

For accuracy though Dual rates is just a quick reduction in the maximum deflections of the control surfaces At 50% it will reduce the rate, (servo/control travel distance/deflection by 50%).

Expo is a little more complex of a concept. When enabled it changes the response of the control surface from a linear one to one where the amount of deflection increases by a far greater amount for each unit of stick travel. As a very poor example, (because the percentage you set determines the actual variations). If you deflect the Tx stick by 10 percent and the servo deflects by 1%. At 20% stick deflection the servo may move 4% at 30% stick the servo could move by 9%, at 40% stick the servo could move by 16%, at 50% stick the servo could move by 25%, at 60% stick the servo could move by 36%, at 70% stick the servo could move by 49%, at 80% stick the servo could move by 64%, at 90% stick the servo could move by 81%, at 100% stick the servo could move by 100%.

The above example IS NOT REAL WORLD MEASUREMENTS but rather an example of the Non-Linear relation of stick movement to servo movement/control surface deflection that can be expected when Expo is used. It reduces the stick sensitivity around the Neutral/central control position and gives gentle control outputs at low to mid stick inputs, (Great for those learning how much stick movement is required for particular maneuvers.

Hope that clarifies things a little!

have fun!

 

[buzzbomb]

Hope that clarifies things a little!

No. It didn't. You're confusing me, mate. I don't see how what you wrote about expo differs from what I wrote. The stick has less throw in the center range of movement and increases exponentially as the stick is moved outward. The Expo value determines where the break-off point is where it is no longer soft, but going to full 100%.

I think you wrote what I did, then I rewrote what you did, writing about what you wrote. Short version? Expo changes how the control surfaces move, vs how you move the control stick. Dead space in the middle. Big air on the outer. I finally get it.

 

[Hai-Lee]

No. It didn't. You're confusing me, mate. I don't see how what you wrote about expo differs from what I wrote. The stick has less throw in the center range of movement and increases exponentially as the stick is moved outward. The Expo value determines where the break-off point is where it is no longer soft, but going to full 100%.

I think you wrote what I did, then I rewrote what you did, writing about what you wrote. Short version? Expo changes how the control surfaces move, vs how you move the control stick. Dead space in the middle. Big air on the outer. I finally get it.

Not dead in the centre but rather far less sensitive. and there is no break - off point where it suddenly goes to 100% as there is a mathematical relationship (An exponential curve) which is applied to the control stick position to determine the transmitted channel deflection. It only ever reaches 100% at 100% of stick movement!

That is what I tried to spell out in the V Poor example I posted!

have fun!

 

[buzzbomb]

Not dead in the centre but rather far less sensitive. and there is no break - off point where it suddenly goes to 100% as there is a mathematical relationship (An exponential curve) which is applied to the control stick position to determine the transmitted channel deflection. It only ever reaches 100% at 100% of stick movement!

That is what I tried to spell out in the V Poor example I posted!

have fun!

We are definitely two hard-headed sons of guns. We're saying the same thing, with different words, but we can't see that the other is saying it too. Bed time here.

The bar somewhere in the middle of nowhere. A pint of Stout each, please. Caroline is lurking. Set her up a tab.

 

[Hai-Lee]

We are definitely two hard-headed sons of guns. We're saying the same thing, with different words, but we can't see that the other is saying it too. Bed time here.

The bar somewhere in the middle of nowhere. A pint of Stout each, please. Caroline is lurking. Set her up a tab.

All we would need to agree on was what we drink, (and how many).

have fun!

 

[buzzbomb]

All we would need to agree on was what we drink, (and how many).

have fun!

Oh, that's easy! We drink what we want and as many as Caroline's tab can handle! Belly Up to the bar, everyone!