Help! What am I looking at here Jarvis?

[model3113]

https://imgur.com/niQ1QGZ

0-100% throttle.

I have been scratching my beard on this for weeks. 0 issues when powered by a battery but when I try to use a single battery I get this. The only thing I've been told is "it's obviously emf from the motor" I'm basically emulating the stock fpv radian, the only exception is that the power leads are soldered to the jst plug directly.

Relevant info: wolfwhoop AIO 25mw with a 10v 470μF cap on the power input (I melted off the micro one soldering the new leads on,) plus a choke on the wires, all running from a single 1s 500mah battery, because umx radian. I basically have dual leads coming from the JST plug, one to the plane, one to the camera. I tried powering it from one of the extra servo ports on the board but for some reason once the plane is armed there's no power to them. Not much room, so the fpv power leads snake under the brick near the esc and out the top. Um... there's a dipole antenna on it.

There's *got* to be a solution. I'm certainly not the only person out there with an fpv FrankenRadian. I really don't want to rip this thing open again 😭

 

[JasonK]

if you have video noise when sharing the power rails with the ESC but not when on its own battery, then it is clearly power rail noise. do you also get the issue with both running at the same time right next to each other, but on their own batteries?

 

[model3113]

No. I know that it's noise but how do I stop it, after everything I've tried in the og post? I can't really get back to the interior to add caps to the motor/esc without destroying the plane, if it were even possible.

 

[JasonK]

without seeing your exact wiring setup, I don't have an answer.

 

[model3113]

without seeing your exact wiring setup, I don't have an answer.

It's laid out as I described. Pretty close to a stock fpv radian. But here's a pic of the vtx/camera. As stated the power leads come directly from the battery plug through the fuse to the vtx. Not much room to work with.

 

[JasonK]

I don't know what a 'stock fpv radian' looks like, so referring to that doesn't help.

from that image, I can't make out any wiring/power feed to that VTX/camera from the battery. The cap should be as close as to the noise source or to the VTX as possible. I don't see the cap that you said you added.

Twisting/braiding the signal/power/ground lines can help in some situations.

 

[model3113]

Yeah that's a crappy photo. I cropped it. You can see the white/black power leads coming up out of the fuse going back to the vtx and the cap at the top. The leads just exit out the bottom and connect to the jst plug at the bottom of the fuse.

ATP I'm just putting another battery on. I've missed too many good days fussing with this thing.

 

[PsyBorg]

You cant run video signal wires parallel to esc wires to the motor in close proximity. Rerun your camera wires along the inside of the fuselage above the esc. Be sure to twist or better yet braid your camera power ground and signal wires even if you have to solder extension to get proper length. That will create kind of its own faraday cage and really help kill outside signal injection in your video feed.

 

[Incader]

If you feed the power off of the esc then there’s a chance you’ll get that. I did the same thing to my radian and got the same results as you did. My solution: just strap a 20mA battery on the back(the 1cm long ones) and call it a day. Keep in mind this does matter what camera your using.

 

[model3113]

You cant run video signal wires parallel to esc wires to the motor in close proximity. Rerun your camera wires along the inside of the fuselage above the esc. Be sure to twist or better yet braid your camera power ground and signal wires even if you have to solder extension to get proper length. That will create kind of its own faraday cage and really help kill outside signal injection in your video feed.

You mean the three wires running from the front of the vtx to the camera itself that are like barely an inch long?

The only thing I haven't tried is running the power leads on the outside of the plane in it's entirety but that might cause issues with putting the wing in.

 

[model3113]

If you feed the power off of the esc then there’s a chance you’ll get that. I did the same thing to my radian and got the same results as you did. My solution: just strap a 20mA battery on the back(the 1cm long ones) and call it a day. Keep in mind this does matter what camera your using.

Yeah I think there's noise coming from the esc going back up the main battery leads and then back out the y leads to the vtx. I'm just frustrated that adding a cap to the vtx offers 0 improvement. I can understand a gradual improvement or just some kind of change but there's literally none. I mean if it *was* induced emf than I could like move the wires at ½ throttle and see it get worse or better. If it *was* electrical than when I go from a 220 to 470μf cap it then the lines wouldn't be as strong or fat or w/e.

 

[Incader]

Tell me if the doddering was done by you or a stock esc. If done by you (and I don’t have much authority to say this) the there might be a similar way the esc goves power to the motor in series of gaps and copying that to the camera.

 

[PsyBorg]

You mean the three wires running from the front of the vtx to the camera itself that are like barely an inch long?

The only thing I haven't tried is running the power leads on the outside of the plane in it's entirety but that might cause issues with putting the wing in.

Well if you are positive its not signal injection the only other thing is vibration from how you mounted it. Two things are working against you on this account. One you use folding props that are not a solid unit. that wear in the pins where it folds is a HUE place to create more and more vibration over time unless you use and keep perfectly balanced props at all times along with a properly balanced motor bell and spinner.

Second is those aio units are made as cheaply as humanly possible so it could be a loose sensor on the chip where they didn't glue it to the pcb before wave soldering. It could be simple thro hole spacing for the screws are not as tight to the screws holding it together. BUT the most likely culprit on any FPV camera for vibration related issues in the recording is the front plastic cover that holds the lens wears out and the entire pcb can slide around within the case. The movement is so miniscule you would easily over look it when going thru and trying to tighten any loose screws. Usually a dab of hot glue or tiny rubber "o" rings between the unit and that lens housing / face plate.

 

[Piotrsko]

I will add the 10v power supply sized filter caps aren't going to do much for emf ripple because the time constant is too long to absorb the pulses, the working voltage is too low to keep the insulation and the reverse polarity is wrong on the back emf. Typically about 1mfd non polarized on the old brushed stuff I have, about 1k volts because you wouldn't believe how high the back emf is. Or a schottsky diode. One for each combination motor lead. Wrap the motor leads in aluminum foil, ground one end only to battery minus

This is just thinking it's electrical, not mechanical. Did it do it without the prop?

 

[model3113]

Well this is the current state of it. It most assuredly had to have been electrical since I just gave the camera it's own power supply and the issue disappeared. Flew terrible and I got ice in the elevator servo and lawn darted it from like 200ft up.

https://imgur.com/qm4OJmQ

The brick is just sitting in the box while I wrap my head what the hell 2016 me was thinking when I bodged all these power leads up. I put the 25mw unit back on my mini buggy and I ordered a 50/200mw AIO unit similar to the Spektrum model that the og fpv radian came with, as the reliable range of the 25mw stops just beyond "three mistakes up."

What I'll do now is after I put on a completely new set of leads is just run an FPV lead off the battery and then add a cap to the esc (there's already one on the main board), as well as leaving room for an LC filter I ordered w/ the camera.

It's curious because I'm looking at an early video from when I had my older batteries that didn't hold much charge and my previous motor (that eventually failed--i think the brushes gave out) I didn't really have this issue.

https://imgur.com/CEKkcnD

And I appreciate the brain trust but most of what I'm hearing seems only applicable to like a larger quad and not some dinky plane with a brushed motor.

 

[Incader]

Well this is the current state of it. It most assuredly had to have been electrical since I just gave the camera it's own power supply and the issue disappeared. Flew terrible and I got ice in the elevator servo and lawn darted it from like 200ft up.

https://imgur.com/qm4OJmQ

The brick is just sitting in the box while I wrap my head what the hell 2016 me was thinking when I bodged all these power leads up. I put the 25mw unit back on my mini buggy and I ordered a 50/200mw AIO unit similar to the Spektrum model that the og fpv radian came with, as the reliable range of the 25mw stops just beyond "three mistakes up."

What I'll do now is after I put on a completely new set of leads is just run an FPV lead off the battery and then add a cap to the esc (there's already one on the main board), as well as leaving room for an LC filter I ordered w/ the camera.

It's curious because I'm looking at an early video from when I had my older batteries that didn't hold much charge and my previous motor (that eventually failed--i think the brushes gave out) I didn't really have this issue.

https://imgur.com/CEKkcnD

And I appreciate the brain trust but most of what I'm hearing seems only applicable to like a larger quad and not some dinky plane with a brushed motor.

(First video)
Is it windy? Or is that the plane rocking back and forth because of the flyer?

 

[PsyBorg]

And I appreciate the brain trust but most of what I'm hearing seems only applicable to like a larger quad and not some dinky plane with a brushed motor.

Well actually no... Electronic principles apply to every thing the same no matter if its an RC plane a quad or your refrigerator with the fancy new built in monitor and digital shopping list.

You said you ran the FPV wires under the board. I assumed you meant signal wires. Inductance works the exact same way when running AC (3 phase esc wires) parallel to DC wires. Every time those wires pulse a field builds up around each phase. The more current you push the bigger the field gets thus the bigger signal cross over into DC wire which is why as you throttled up the problem got worse.

As far as the flight being bad It looks to me like you did not set a high enough Expo for your skill level as well as have super sloppy hole to control rod issues that add up fast. The ice in the control surface none of us can help you with as we can't mess with nature.

As for the no problems with the old motors you stated you used brushed which is DC so no three phase pulsing to make or induce added signals. What you saw in the video was all brush noise as it arc's on and off each stator pole.

 

[Incader]

Well actually no... Electronic principles apply to every thing the same no matter if its an RC plane a quad or your refrigerator with the fancy new built in monitor and digital shopping list.

You said you ran the FPV wires under the board. I assumed you meant signal wires. Inductance works the exact same way when running AC (3 phase esc wires) parallel to DC wires. Every time those wires pulse a field builds up around each phase. The more current you push the bigger the field gets thus the bigger signal cross over into DC wire which is why as you throttled up the problem got worse.

Bro that’s literally what I said in my first reply.
Anyways at least somebody took the time to type out an understandable explanation.
Does that mean that the thread is solved, @model3113 ?

 

[Musdang]

For some reason when I turn on the ac in my car while listening to a static am channel, the pitch changes.

 

[Incader]

For some reason when I turn on the ac in my car while listening to a static am channel, the pitch changes.

Nice car