What happened to the Flite Test I loved?

FlyingMonkey

Bought Another Trailer
Staff member
Admin
Just a quick note on this topic...

The designs have been "stolen" since day one. Even HobbyKing had taken the Old Fogey design and was selling it for a while. All of the other China Direct sites did too.

Trouble was, bad copies being sold AS Flite Test designs started showing up. There were customer service emails wanting warranty replacements for products that were not from Flite Test. That's when they finally had to take a look at where the problems were coming from, and what steps they needed to take to curb it.

It wasn't the loss of revenue to people cutting their own kits, or "stealing" designs, but the damage it was doing to the relationship with customers who thought that they were getting genuine FT items, and were upset with the poor quality of the fakes.
 

Byrdman

Well-known member
Just a quick note on this topic...

The designs have been "stolen" since day one. Even HobbyKing had taken the Old Fogey design and was selling it for a while. All of the other China Direct sites did too.

Trouble was, bad copies being sold AS Flite Test designs started showing up. There were customer service emails wanting warranty replacements for products that were not from Flite Test. That's when they finally had to take a look at where the problems were coming from, and what steps they needed to take to curb it.

It wasn't the loss of revenue to people cutting their own kits, or "stealing" designs, but the damage it was doing to the relationship with customers who thought that they were getting genuine FT items, and were upset with the poor quality of the fakes.

IMO, with so much available information online, I just dont see how someone in the hobby can think they were buying a FT kit if they are buying from someone other than FT.

The more likely story is they got ripped off trying to save a few $$'s and wants FT to pay for their mistake. There was no relationship damage because they were not purchasing from FT and everyone else has to suffer from it.
 

Wes B.

Site Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
We are trying to find as good of a solution as we can to make it easy to scratch build but also try and prevent others selling products as FT brand. One thing that is common is using a speed build kit to trace on foam board. It makes cutting multiples easy and you can just keep the speed build version for making copies in the future.

We are also looking into getting a large scale printer to be able to offer printed plans for the same price(or maybe less if we can) as it would be to print the large format plans at Kinkos or similar print shops. We want scratch building to continue but also try and prevent the knock offs and issues they have been causing.
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
We are trying to find as good of a solution as we can to make it easy to scratch build but also try and prevent others selling products as FT brand. One thing that is common is using a speed build kit to trace on foam board. It makes cutting multiples easy and you can just keep the speed build version for making copies in the future.

We are also looking into getting a large scale printer to be able to offer printed plans for the same price(or maybe less if we can) as it would be to print the large format plans at Kinkos or similar print shops. We want scratch building to continue but also try and prevent the knock offs and issues they have been causing.

You can print plans and transfer them to poster board if you have the ones you need or you can as you said trace a speed build kit onto it as well. The poster board is nice because you can store it all between a mattress and box spring to keep them safe and out of the way.
 

LitterBug

Techno Nut
Moderator
I personally am glad we are not all still driving around in Model-T/A fordz. Change happens! Let's all contribute to moving FT along as it progresses! Be part of the future, and keep the spirit alive! It's all about the community, and the community is still here!

Cheers!
LitterBug
 

foamboardflyer

Active member
I look at the ftca membership more as a contribution to support the continuance of a hobby rather than a way to get free plans . I think it may have been a mistake to associate a membership drive with simple stick plans because that became the emphasis and I don't think it was the intent. I also give to national public television and radio because I believe all these organizations are trying to broaden our horizons. I respect and support that.
I didn’t even know you get free plans wen I joined :LOL: but you get a lot more than 12 plans a year, you get lots of coupons. For instance, In September I got a coupon for 50% off a ft jacket witch is $50.00 ( I think it was a flight crew coupon) but I joined the FTCA for the same reason as you @MacClarkNC
 

tomlogan1

Well-known member
that would happen if they called them by their trademarked names...which you'll notice they are not.

this happened to Valve when the launched Counter-Strike. they called the guns by what they were and had lawyers smother them. so now they have weird names, but we all know what they are from 'likeness.'
 
We are trying to find as good of a solution as we can to make it easy to scratch build but also try and prevent others selling products as FT brand. One thing that is common is using a speed build kit to trace on foam board. It makes cutting multiples easy and you can just keep the speed build version for making copies in the future.

We are also looking into getting a large scale printer to be able to offer printed plans for the same price(or maybe less if we can) as it would be to print the large format plans at Kinkos or similar print shops. We want scratch building to continue but also try and prevent the knock offs and issues they have been causing.
I mean - if they're out there they're out there. But maybe if they cost money, whatever small amount, then they're perceived differently by would-be pirates.
 

SP0NZ

FT CAD Gremlin
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Mentor
Other security measures have also recently been implemented with the plans to try to make it more difficult for the criminals out there to steal them. We have added watermarks, password protection (I know this is easily bypassed, but at least it's there), and most recently converting the vector based CAD data to raster. I know for some of the scratch builders out there that have there own CNC's, needle cutters, or lasers, this will make using those tools a lot more challenging. For those of you honest DIYers that aren't trying to profit from Flite Test's hard work, I am sorry. However, it was a necessary step to curb the blatant theft of Flite Test's intellectual property. Are these security measures going to be 100% effective? Of course not. If the plans are released, there will always be a way to copy them. That said, the new security features will make it much more difficult for the unscrupulous perpetrators out there to continue their illegal and immoral activities.
 

foamboardflyer

Active member
Other security measures have also recently been implemented with the plans to try to make it more difficult for the criminals out there to steal them. We have added watermarks, password protection (I know this is easily bypassed, but at least it's there), and most recently converting the vector based CAD data to raster. I know for some of the scratch builders out there that have there own CNC's, needle cutters, or lasers, this will make using those tools a lot more challenging. For those of you honest DIYers that aren't trying to profit from Flite Test's hard work, I am sorry. However, it was a necessary step to curb the blatant theft of Flite Test's intellectual property. Are these security measures going to be 100% effective? Of course not. If the plans are released, there will always be a way to copy them. That said, the new security features will make it much more difficult for the unscrupulous perpetrators out there to continue their illegal and immoral activities.
Well said
 

Marzipan

Well-known member
have they copyrighted their plans so if they are abused they have the option of taking legal action? I know that can cost a small fortune, but sending a cease / desist letter may be enough to get an offender to re-think their strategies.
 

SP0NZ

FT CAD Gremlin
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Mentor
have they copyrighted their plans so if they are abused they have the option of taking legal action? I know that can cost a small fortune, but sending a cease / desist letter may be enough to get an offender to re-think their strategies.
I think it may have been discussed as an option, but I do not know if they are pursuing that.
 

tamuct01

Well-known member
You may be thinking about patents or trademarks which are more involved and difficult.

Copyright is neither difficult or expensive. Copyright is granted AUTOMATICALLY, for any printed or electronic work created in the United States. It is actually in the U.S. Constitutional as a property right. By affixing the text "Copyright" and the year, the work is instantly copyrighted. The reason that you register a copyright with the government is simply to create a legal paper trail in the event of a dispute - and the cost to register a copyright is NOT expensive.

The government does NOT "grant" copyright, any more than it "grants" any rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence or in the U.S. Constitution. If you do not register a copyright with the U.S. Copyright Office, and a dispute arises, you risk paying court costs if you are sued for copyright infringement. Also, by registering if you sue someone for copyright infringement and you are successful, all costs are born by the infringer.

Bottom line: Copyright is a right of all citizens of the U.S. - not granted by the government. Like all of our individual rights, citizens are endowed with them by our Creator - they are not given by the government. That is what makes the United States of America different from most governments in the world.

If you look on EVERY set of plans or SBK you will see the FliteTest DOES have copyright on everything they have created. As such, they are property. FliteTest owns them, and to violate their copyright is the equivalent to stealing physical property.

I agree with everything you said, but most of the infringers are outside of the USA. There's little chance of them stopping their behavior based upon a strongly worded letter from an attorney in the US. Sucks, but that's the world we inhabit.
 

tamuct01

Well-known member
True. China routinely violates copyright and patent law. Communism is truly evil.

Not just China. I looked up one of the offending shops and they were clearly in India charging Indian rupees for the FT designs. The product placement clearly had them labeled as FliteTest planes. I could see why someone might call FT for support if they didn't understand they weren't getting the real thing.
 

FlyingMonkey

Bought Another Trailer
Staff member
Admin
Not just China. I looked up one of the offending shops and they were clearly in India charging Indian rupees for the FT designs. The product placement clearly had them labeled as FliteTest planes. I could see why someone might call FT for support if they didn't understand they weren't getting the real thing.
Capitalism posing as communism seems to be just as bad...
 

SSgt Duramax

Junior Member
We are trying to find as good of a solution as we can to make it easy to scratch build but also try and prevent others selling products as FT brand. One thing that is common is using a speed build kit to trace on foam board. It makes cutting multiples easy and you can just keep the speed build version for making copies in the future.

We are also looking into getting a large scale printer to be able to offer printed plans for the same price(or maybe less if we can) as it would be to print the large format plans at Kinkos or similar print shops. We want scratch building to continue but also try and prevent the knock offs and issues they have been causing.
I think you're on to something here Wes, I had been thinking about this for a while. Actually, while I was ,meticulously cutting out templates for a plane I was building from posterboard, I remembered thinking that I would gladly pay $20 for some already cut out poster board templates! Using that thin tracing template plastic would be super snazzy! I guess you aren't too far off from a speedbuild kit I suppose, but templates take up less room and survive longer than a foam parts pile. I hope yall go somewhere in this direction. If you do, you can expect to be sending about 4 or 5 sets to Texas!