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What is wrong

docque

Active member
#1
I want to know what my problem is. I can fly the following planes without issue:
Bloody baron
FT mini F22
Sea duck
Otter
Tiny trainer
Explorer
FT Cub

But if I get my hands on any of the following, chances are VERY high that I will smash them.
Wings
FT Goblin
most of the minis

I know it is not set up. I learned in my first year of flying that it is important to get the CG right and that the servos are going the correct way. I make sure that the DR and EXPO are correct.

I thought it may be that I can't get the orientation of the plane right so I paint the bottom a completely different color that the top and that didn't help. I even have issues with them in the flight simulator. Is it just more time needed flying the others before I try new ones?

Oh, I do have some ready made planes, Sport Cub, UMX Timber and UMX Radian and I have no issues with them.
 

FastCrash45

Well-known member
#2
I want to know what my problem is. I can fly the following planes without issue:
Bloody baron
FT mini F22
Sea duck
Otter
Tiny trainer
Explorer
FT Cub

But if I get my hands on any of the following, chances are VERY high that I will smash them.
Wings
FT Goblin
most of the minis

I know it is not set up. I learned in my first year of flying that it is important to get the CG right and that the servos are going the correct way. I make sure that the DR and EXPO are correct.

I thought it may be that I can't get the orientation of the plane right so I paint the bottom a completely different color that the top and that didn't help. I even have issues with them in the flight simulator. Is it just more time needed flying the others before I try new ones?

Oh, I do have some ready made planes, Sport Cub, UMX Timber and UMX Radian and I have no issues with them.
Personally, my problems are weight, too much glue, only afford to use my old 9 gram servos, and wind. I now know to take the inside paper off the rear fuselage and won't get another mini until I can buy a bunch of 3.7 or 5g servos. With 15mph winds my mini scout went inverted several times and I don't have those skills.😂😎
 

docque

Active member
#3
Personally, my problems are weight, too much glue, only afford to use my old 9 gram servos, and wind. I now know to take the inside paper off the rear fuselage and won't get another mini until I can buy a bunch of 3.7 or 5g servos. With 15mph winds my mini scout went inverted several times and I don't have those skills.😂😎
I built the minis correctly. I have the tiny servos. I don't think it is a weight issue.
 

FastCrash45

Well-known member
#4
I built the minis correctly. I have the tiny servos. I don't think it is a weight issue.
No, I was just saying why I have a hard time. Just saying you're not alone with difficulties with mini's and other small planes. They are inherently twitchy below a certain size and hate any wind.
 

Merv

Well-known member
#5
Tailless planes are very sensitive to CG, my Versa is a pleasure to fly with CG @ 30% of wing area. Move the CG back even a 1/4 inch, it turns into a flying squirrel, not fun. With a new plane, I always start out with a conservative CG, 25%, and then slowly move it back until the plane flies the way I want it to.

My other suggestion, low rates, especially until you get the plane trimmed out. When you get it trimmed, turn up the rates until you are happy.

I almost gave up flying wings, now they are one of my favorites.

 
Last edited:

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Mentor
#6
My guess would be the jump to more "twitchy" planes.

You could lower your throws to probably 75% of recomended. You could also crank your expo up until you develope a lighter touch.

All that is dependent on proper building, all up weight, and proper cg for each craft. Possible something to do with reflex on the ailerons. Video of what is happening would be a huge help for more specific answers from the pros here
 

Merv

Well-known member
#8
I agree with @PsyBorg, expo is good, just not too much. I like 30-40%, if you go too high you can make a twitchy plane far worse. On the bench, crank expo up to 80% and watch what happens, as you slowly move the stick, nothing, nothing, then bam, nearly full throw.

More detail on what happens would be helpful. On my first several flights, it was over in a few seconds, a quick loop then hit the ground.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding faceplant!
Mentor
#9
Video....

Start a build log, shoot and post video of the maiden.

Crashes tend to happen really fast. Video allows for more people to take more time looking at a problem.

Where I as a pilot just saw a heartrending instaflip and faceplant, others see CG and control reversal issues. A build log grants perspective and video opens up opportunity to assist.

Try a build log for your next mini. When you crash the forum can try to help. When you fly we will all cheer with you! :)
 

docque

Active member
#10
Reading through your replies I think I know what is happening. The planes I am able to fly easily are a bit slower. I think if I make a mistake I have time to correct. The planes I have issues with are a bit faster and I do not have the reaction time to readjust. I will look into increasing my expo on some of the twitchy models and see what happens.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Mentor
#11
The biggest issue withthe flying of minis is definitely the so called 'Twitchiness?", But there is something else to consider.

As everything is smaller a build error even minor can make it difficult to fly whereas the same build error on a larger plane would possibly not even noticeable. All set up points are more sensitive. CG range is smaller as is the control surface deflections. The most common error is to set control surface deflections the same as for larger birds and the result is invariably a short contorted flight and a heavy ground impact.

Relative to their size a small bird needs to fly a little faster and things happen more rapidly and so can seem to be a little unstable.

SETUP includes the setting of the side and down thrust as well as the throttle settings used for launch or take off.

Recently I was asked to attempt to test fly a bird that had been built repaired and replaced so often that the owner was almost desperate to get some result for his efforts. I hand launched it and it flew perfectly with only minor trim required. He did note that i launched it at about half throttle and when he tried the same, (and increased his expo a fair bit), he was able to fly the bird quite happily though he did leave the field at the end of the flying vowing to reduce the rates further on low rates to smooth out his flying.

Minis can be fun but need to be set up properly. The recommended setup MUST be considered as a starting point only!

Just my thoughts on the matter!

Have fun!
 

Keno

Active member
#12
OK read most of this stuff. My friend you are trying to advance to fast. You are on a learning curve. The ones airplane you mentioned that you can fly have assisted flying built into them. Stay with the Tiny Trainer until you master it , then move on. If you know others that fly in you area seek their help. Most to the posts above suggest you are yanking your sticks, side to side, forward and back this is a beginner mistake ease up and be gentle with them. This is why oters are suggesting more Expo etc., . In saying that your post of 10:20 above is spot on. Stay with it and happy flying.
 

FDS

Well-known member
#13
I have been flying my TT several times every week since November 2018 and I still find minis challenging to fly, even with a pretty soft rates/expo setting. The lower wing loading means you need more airspeed to stay up and stuff happens faster!
Your list of planes that you can fly well is way longer than mine, keep going on with those as well as taking the excellent advice offered above!
 
#14
I want to know what my problem is. I can fly the following planes without issue:
Bloody baron
FT mini F22
Sea duck
Otter
Tiny trainer
Explorer
FT Cub

But if I get my hands on any of the following, chances are VERY high that I will smash them.
Wings
FT Goblin
most of the minis

I know it is not set up. I learned in my first year of flying that it is important to get the CG right and that the servos are going the correct way. I make sure that the DR and EXPO are correct.

I thought it may be that I can't get the orientation of the plane right so I paint the bottom a completely different color that the top and that didn't help. I even have issues with them in the flight simulator. Is it just more time needed flying the others before I try new ones?

Oh, I do have some ready made planes, Sport Cub, UMX Timber and UMX Radian and I have no issues with them.
Try flying those planes FPV.
 

mayan

Well-known member
#15
I want to know what my problem is. I can fly the following planes without issue:
Bloody baron
FT mini F22
Sea duck
Otter
Tiny trainer
Explorer
FT Cub

But if I get my hands on any of the following, chances are VERY high that I will smash them.
Wings
FT Goblin
most of the minis
Guys you are all missing something here, he can fly the TT no problem and its a mini. He is having a hard time flying planes that are harder to fly because CG has to be spot on.

@docque what minis are you having a hard time flying? If it makes you feel any better I too have issue with wings, and this is the end result I get every time.
209891_80fd4045cf955c4674e1e979137906a4.jpeg
211631_650554f8d7101b4e1ae965aabfa0c545.jpeg
 

docque

Active member
#17
Guys you are all missing something here, he can fly the TT no problem and its a mini. He is having a hard time flying planes that are harder to fly because CG has to be spot on.

@docque what minis are you having a hard time flying? If it makes you feel any better I too have issue with wings, and this is the end result I get every time.
Hey, I had a bunch of planes just like that. It is not tons of money I spend on the minis so I will keep trying.

I did realize that the bigger planes are much easier to fly. You move the battery an inch and CG is still on. Minis you move that battery 1cm and the plane crashes.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding faceplant!
Mentor
#19
My first foam plane lasted 8 seconds. 10 if you count until the last landing gear wheel stopped rolling. CG matters. Planes don't fly backwards well.

My second plane was a mini. It lasted about 30 seconds. That was three tosses, tailheavy and after the third, it was done. I vowed never to hose up CG again.

My third plane lasted 3 seconds. I spent all my time on CG and had the elevator reversed. Toss, pull up, faceplant, bits in a bag, long walk to the truck...

For a maiden, video everything. Capture on video as you test the directions of the flight controls. Record the balance, the throws, and the directions of the props particularly for pushers and multi-engine craft.

The worst thing is to build, fly, crash and not have enough data to learn before you repeat. It leaves you speculating. It can eat away at your confidence, particularly if you are new.

If you do video right, you KNOW. I find that motivating and I am far more likely to rebuild tonight if I know (or think I know :)) what went wrong.

You asked what you were doing wrong and if you need more experience before moving on to the new planes. I suggest that to answer the second question, you need to KNOW the answer to the first.

I use a Mobius Action Cam on a 3D printed hat clip and practiced shooting with it by playing frizbee with my dog. I bought it prior to plane #3 and it is why plane #4 (TT number 2) has stayed out of the bits bag.
 

Arcfyre

Well-known member
#20
@docque, others have touched on it, and I will agree as I have noticed the same thing. The models you listed having trouble with, specifically the wings and the minis, are more difficult to fly because they are twitchy. Meaning: The same motors are proportionally more powerful in a small airframe, so the effects of p-factor and torque roll are more pronounced. The aircraft are lighter and much more sensitive to wind than heavier models. Also the minis are often extremely agile and easy to lose track of if rates and expo aren't set up properly.

So what can you do about it?

I've had a lot of success using stabilized receivers in twitchy aircraft. A programmable gyro system will help keep the wings level and the aircraft flying straight even in difficult conditions. I'm not sure what equipment you're using, but if you're on DSMX (Spektrum) check out the LemonRX model LM0044. For what it can do it's a phenomenal value.

If you feel like gyros aren't your thing, and you'd like to get in to wings anyway, I would highly recommend starting with a versa wing built in a tractor configuration. I know it's not as sexy as a pusher, but the tractor versa is an incredibly sweet flying airplane even without a gyro and would make a great stepping stone for you to move to the more high performance models.