Why are the plans not formated to fit the foam board FliteTest suggests using?

[kc8vfa]

Call me crazy, but why are the plans for the "scratch builds" in such screwy sizes.... if the plans are to be put on readily available foam board that you suggest on your own website, " [url]http://flitetest.com/articles/swappable-fuselage-speed-build-kit "[/URL] DTFB (Dollar Tree foam board) then why don't you make it so the plans are the same size as the foam board?

It's the same amount of materials, ink/toner, paper and foam board....

I would think that it is common sense, 30 x 20 foam board = 30 x 20 plan layout.

I know from looking through the forums that a lot of people spend a stupid amount of time converting and reformatting the plans to fit on the materials at hand, why not just skip the headaches and make them 30 x 20 prints for the rest of us that don't have the graphics software, time, to convert the plans to a convenient format.

I thank you for your show, ideas and information and support you as much as I can, however I cannot thank you for the free plans as of yet, because they have been an unending source of frustration and aggravation to try to get on paper larger than 8 1/2 x 11 and smaller than the local print shops poster printer can handle.

 

[TEAJR66]

Welcome to the forums. I wont try to say why the plans are laid out the way they are.

As far as for how to use them in their current layout, I have a suggestion or two.

1. Don't try to reformat or adjust the plans. Just print them and put them together: Take the tiled plans and put them together. no need to cut or trim. Tape the first page to a large window. With the light shining through, it is easy to line up all the lines through the overlap. You can even cut the assembled plans into their separate pieces if you like. You can lay each piece on the foam board as you see fit. Or, make a poster board template for future pieces.

2. Simple print technique that requires no special software: Use the "full sized plans" not the "tiled plans" and use the snapshot tool in adobe reader (the format that the plans are already in). Select "take a snapshot" from the "edit" menu and frame the piece you want to print. Print that at 100% size and in the "poster" format. Now just the part you framed will print and you can lay that out on the foam as you wish.

3. Many of the plans have been rearranged already: Check out this persons threads. If you don't find the plan you want already rearranged, contact him via a PM. He might help, he might not. I have found him to be very helpful. http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?17136-SP0NZ-Plans-Index.

Good luck with your efforts. Keep us posted. This is a great community full of people willing to help and excited to see you succeed.

 

[kc8vfa]

Thank you for the reply and information, I have ran ac-crossed NZ's reformatted plans, and have had some success reproducing them on paper with my equipment, but I have also had troubles also. I am using a 34" carriage plotter/cutter, and the software I use is made for this unit, there are no windows "Printer" drivers, and for what ever reason it draws every line in the plans including hidden ones. I have been able to get most of the NZ mod - spitfire plans plotted out enough to have one nearly assembled, still waiting on inspiration to replace the paper "turtle back" with pink foam as that is one of the shapes that does not plot for me and i like the solid foam idea much better.

My main criticism is again the format of the plans. I have my "conspiracy theory" idea as to why the plans are as they are, but I wanted more to bring to light that 24" printers are so much more common than a 48" printer, which some of the plans are getting close to needing. Also although everyone has Mister ink-jet printer and reams of paper, I for one, am not willing to spend hours printing, cutting and taping 20 - 30+ letter sized pages together just to cut them apart and re-tape the pieces back together and hope I got them straight, and then try to trace them to the foam board.

Again I would hope that some one at flite test would read this and agree that it makes sense and implements the idea.


Thanks again
Dave

 

[PHugger]

I'm not sure what the issue is.
The Full Sized (non-tiled) plans print nicely on large format printers - at least on the one that I use -
HP DesignJet T1200 ANSI E 34" x 44" 863.6mm x 1117.6mm
You have to cut the plans out and trace them onto the foam board. It doesn't matter how big the paper is as long as each pattern piece fits.
It's up to you to optimize the layout to save foamboard if that is what you're driving at.
The only reason I could see for making the Plans 1:1 with the DTFB would be if you could print directly on the foam board.
This is actually what they do with the laser cut models that you can buy in the FT store.
My biggest problem has been with the few plans that are only available in the tiled format.
There had to be a full sized plan somewhere in order to make the tiled version....



Best regards,
PCH

 

[nic872]

i don't really understand what you mean but i usually just cut out the shape of what i'm gonna cut say the wing and paste it onto the foam board and cut it out then, not the all the sheets at once onto the foam board. i think it's easier this way. i don't think what i said is easy to understand so im gonna put it in steps
i know this isnt the answer to your question so sorry about that, as i think you mean the plans don't easliy fit onto the foam board after printing out, but this could help you if you don't already do this
1. print out the plans
2. tape the paper together where needed
3. cut shape with some extra space around
4. paste it onto the foam board where it can fit ( i usully choose where ill waste the least amount of foam board
5.cut it out of the foam board

 

[Bacon8tor]

Since 2 people here have plotter/cutters. Ive been looking into getting one of these, I use to work at a print shop and good with graphic design, with the DTFB planes It would be awesome to be able to draw plans straight to the foam then use the cutter for decals. Can you guys maybe suggest a few? The cheapest Ive seen are around 300$ for a 24" plotter, is that about right?

 

[bhursey]

Normaly i just tile them and lay the plans over tge bord and carfuly cut directly on the plans.. I use painters tape some times to secure more than my hand..

 

[kc8vfa]

The Full Sized (non-tiled) plans print nicely on large format printers - at least on the one that I use -
HP DesignJet T1200 ANSI E 34" x 44" 863.6mm x 1117.6mm

Real nice printer but, if I had the money for one of those, I would not be making airplanes out of foam board, ebay ink refills for printer are more than I paid for my 2nd/3rd hand plotter. But that is the issue, I don't have a PRINTER, I have a PLOTER, a machine that has a pen and only draws lines. So if I were to take out the pen and replace it with a knife/laser, I could cut the templates directly, or if my plotter would hold the foam board it could draw directly on it.

Obviously the plans are tiled for the most common "PRINTER" format that everyone has access to, which is letter size (8.5 x 11), but the next common size is 24", which Is 4" wider than the most readily available foam board at 20" wide, I just don't understand the lack of logic.


To Bacon8tor:

the cutter/plotter idea is not going to work with the foam board, it is way to thick and the pinch rollers to hold it will crush it and make it unusable. Plus just like the issues i'm having with the plans not being 24" max width and also that they are not made to be plotted/cut makes them almost useless for anything other than a printer. as for making decals unless you are going to do more than that, like stuff for cars, signs, ect.... a vinyl cutter is also not worth much. I now wish I never got one, I have spent more time trying to make it work than it has worked with anything other than what I have created using the software that came with it.

As always opinions expressed here are my own, your mileage may vary, don't forget to read the fine print.



Many thanks go out to SP0NZ and all those here that are helping fix the odd sizes of the plans.

 

[Bacon8tor]

To Bacon8tor:

the cutter/plotter idea is not going to work with the foam board, it is way to thick and the pinch rollers to hold it will crush it and make it unusable. Plus just like the issues i'm having with the plans not being 24" max width and also that they are not made to be plotted/cut makes them almost useless for anything other than a printer. as for making decals unless you are going to do more than that, like stuff for cars, signs, ect.... a vinyl cutter is also not worth much. I now wish I never got one, I have spent more time trying to make it work than it has worked with anything other than what I have created using the software that came with it.

As always opinions expressed here are my own, your mileage may vary, don't forget to read the fine print.



Many thanks go out to SP0NZ and all those here that are helping fix the odd sizes of the plans.

I had that thought, I was trying to look in specs to see what the max thickness is but none had it. Im not worried about the art work. I had to extensively change the FT plans , I had a local printer who can print on foam and cut it, print me a spitfire camo and they cut it out, I havent been able to go pick it up yet, but they said its done so Im guessing it went well.

Heres what I did I made them fit onto a 48 " sheet casue thats what the printer used
The main Art Work

This is the back side(technically just what would be on the bottom side of the plane. )

And their cutter needed all red lines so I had to convert them to Red line. Alot easier with Illustrator as the lines are directly editable, once you undo the clipping mask.

 

[SP0NZ]

First of all kc8vfa, welcome to the forums. Glad to have you. Please do keep voicing your opinions here, it helps the whole community to get all kinds of different perspectives.

The free plans are, well, FREE. You get exactly what you pay for. I would guess that 90-95% of the scratch builders out there make them work they way we get them from Flite Test. Are they perfect...nope. Can you scratch build an awesome RC airplane with the free plans for very little cost...absolutely.

I'm not employed by Flite Test, nor am I affiliated with them in any way. I'm just a huge fan of what they have provided for people like me who may have never gotten into this hobby without them. I started by giving Flite Test a few dollars for some firewalls and control horns. And I could have started without even doing that if I wanted to make my own. There aren't too many companies out there that give stuff away for nothing.


I'm not sure what the 'logic' behind the way FT formats there plans is either. But coming from someone who has spent a lot of time making plans the way a scratch builder might want them, I know it takes a lot of thought, planning, and time to lay everything out. And, I'm not really optimizing the parts for nesting. I'm making a set of usable plans that are easier to put together so you can cut out the parts by hand. If FT spent as much time on plans as I have, there would be far fewer planes released. And, there would still be people who wouldn't like the way they do it, even if it was perfect for you. I'd rather they keep focusing on making great designs and continuing to provide free plans.

Not trying to be negative, and again, I appreciate your perspective. Just thought sharing mine might help a little here too.

 

[joshuabardwell]

IMO, the plans are the way they are because they are first and foremost formatted for FT's laser cutter. I don't know for sure, but I would guess that the exact plans you download (the full sheet version, not the individual pages version) are the same ones they upload to their laser cutter to make speed build kits. I would guess that if you had a large format plotter or laser cutter, you'd find this format perfectly convenient.

 

[Bambua]

I had that thought, I was trying to look in specs to see what the max thickness is but none had it. Im not worried about the art work. I had to extensively change the FT plans , I had a local printer who can print on foam and cut it, print me a spitfire camo and they cut it out, I havent been able to go pick it up yet, but they said its done so Im guessing it went well.

Heres what I did I made them fit onto a 48 " sheet casue thats what the printer used
The main Art Work
View attachment 47816
This is the back side(technically just what would be on the bottom side of the plane. )
View attachment 47817
And their cutter needed all red lines so I had to convert them to Red line. Alot easier with Illustrator as the lines are directly editable, once you undo the clipping mask.
View attachment 47818

I'm curious did they print it directly onto the foam core, or did they attach a printed sheet to it and then cut it out? I'd love to find a service near me that did this, would make it so much easier to detail out a new plane

 

[Bacon8tor]

I'm curious did they print it directly onto the foam core, or did they attach a printed sheet to it and then cut it out? I'd love to find a service near me that did this, would make it so much easier to detail out a new plane

They printed directly to the foam core. Then made all the 100% cuts, at first he wasnt sure if their machine could make 50% cuts, he then said they could. I decided against it I didnt want to take the chance the cutter cut to deep and messed up the ink.

side note it was a tad expensive it was $70, the printing was cheap $10 , the cutting was cheap $10, their foam board was the most expensive 50$ for the 46x32 piece of foam( I made sure this wasn't gorilla board, but havent seen yet what the foam looks like.)

 

[Craftydan]

IMO, the plans are the way they are because they are first and foremost formatted for FT's laser cutter. I don't know for sure, but I would guess that the exact plans you download (the full sheet version, not the individual pages version) are the same ones they upload to their laser cutter to make speed build kits. I would guess that if you had a large format plotter or laser cutter, you'd find this format perfectly convenient.

They aren't, since most are haphazardly tossed onto the page -- the laser cutter source still needs to squeeze the cuts into a 20x30 cutting space (In fairness every machine they have has a multiple sheet area to cut, but most of the FT builds need an odd number of sheets -- wasted space to cut the odd-sheet-out without something else). My impression has been many of them are the way they are because they run out of time on the day of the build video.

As Sponz alluded it take a LOT of work getting the layouts right, and they spend quite a bit of time getting them straight for their cutter (just take a look at their SBK's -- on some of the mini's there's hardly any scrap foam left!) but the format isn't PDF.

I expect they drag the parts out of their source vector files onto a template page, but in some of them (like the storch) no consideration is made to make it printable . . . except leaving the PDF unlocked. Enter the FT community (and guys like Nerdnic and Sponz) who have made reformatting into a science. Getting things down to a minimum of A-size pages for large format and letter tile prints that they've done has been invaluable to us scratch builders . . . but it's something ANY of us can do if we're formatting for the printing gear we have.

 

[PHugger]

Real nice printer but, if I had the money for one of those, I would not be making airplanes out of foam board,

Own it! Hah!
I'm just lucky to be allowed to print airplane plans on it occasionally.
There are many, many reasons other than poverty to build planes out of DTFB.

The roll Paper I print on is very thick. I cut out the pieces and am able to trace around them with a pencil to transfer them to the DTFB. I choose how to lay them out to minimize waste. The more you squeeze onto a sheet, the harder it is to cut.


Best regards,
PCH

 

[Bambua]

The other thing I keep in mind when I do my layout sheets for cutting that sometimes makes it take more material, is I use the colored packing tape on the back of it to put a design on my planes for most of them. And making sure the tape lines up in the same direction usually ends up with a more appealing product

 

[RAM]

FT needs to get together with this guy for his next book

http://www.workman.com/products/9780761176404/