“Bringing Hope to the Hobby”

[FTCA Director]

@FTCA Director Ok Lee....

So when the time comes to finalize the FTCA as a CBO how fast will you cave in to all their "Suggested" rules that are total B.S. that were in the original NPRM and got shot down. The way these birds work is they will find a way to get their agenda accomplished no matter what.

They proved this when they pulled the NPRM without not even a thought of the MANDATORY "Risk Assessment" before proposing new rules.

Just how hard are you guys willing to step up after they take you aside and tell you flat out.. You use "OUR" suggestions or you dont become a CBO. They know they cant get that crap passed legally so they are going to dump it all on CBO's to be "the bad guy" to accomplish what they want.

EVERYONE screwed the pooch when you all took that "Lets Compromise" stance instead of taking a ZERO regulation stance and meeting in the middle. These guys KNOW if they pile a bunch of crap really high to get everyone in a panic that later down the road they can remove tiny pieces until the "Lets Compromise" snowflakes think "well this aint so bad" just like you ALL did with the first round or poo we all now have to eat.

Most sane people know FT has a HUGE stake on the line here after the Edgewater acquisition and we also know you have to as smart business people protect that. So look me in the eye and tell me "We are not going to cave in on anything other then what we have always preached as guidelines" and make me believe it.

Just what is Flite Tests acceptable limit?

I lost my last bit of faith in the Flite Test way when you guys teamed up with DJI. Specially after you guys publicly proclaimed that DJI race drone was a great beginner start. Have you all gone goofy? That is the LAST thing a new pilot would need to fly to learn on. Gonna stop about that now as Im gettin fired up. It irks me enough when 99% of the people that use their junk cant even say the initials correctly. DJI ARE the enemy driving a lot of this stuff getting dumped on us. Their hobby stuff is a side business. They have ZERO care for our level of aviation. They are just using it to finance their bigger part of their business which is the commercial stuff.

Go to post #32 and have a think on that. See if you figure out how you are all hand feeding the beast by giving in and "Compromising"

https://forum.flitetest.com/index.p...-up-to-no-good-again.67945/page-2#post-670673

It would be easy for me to pull the "that was all before me" card, but I won't. What I will do is do my best to accomplish what is needed within my realm of influence now. My desire is to be a voice that can speak the language of multiple universes to communicate what needs to be heard. I know that things have been, and will be done that doesn't receive the approval of all, but the goal is to minimize the adverse effect on the FT community. My goal is to continue to develop and promote a "parallel structure" that withstands the scrutiny that stands against it. (great video, BTW)
So, I'll do my best!

 

[PsyBorg]

@FTCA Director

So.. I'm going to assume by the way you directly avoided answering any thing specific that you will be holding strong on the "Lets Compromise" method. I get you can not publicly go in depth with formal proclamations and I understand the need to protect the "Empire" that is Flite Test. After all there is an awful lot riding on these changes both for the hobby as well as financially for all those the Flite Test business supports.

I will just remind you how a Government operating on the level ours is currently running thru a short lesson. Remember the Boston Tea Party.

We are at that stage in the United States evolution where that type of thinking and action is needed once again. If you think about it we are a miniscule part of that whole evolution and a test bed for the people in power to see how the masses will react and devise plans to manipulate that to meet their end goals. If small things like our hobby get run over by the process think about how much easier it will be when more and more dejected people who lost their hobbies are faced with more important things they will try and take away. Flash back to that video and how this is all planned and happens in stages to beat people into submission. This is LIVE and this is REAL so I will play the role of Paul Revere and tell you "The British ARE coming".

I get your role is the face of the FTCA and maybe even a sector of the hobby as well. I get you want things to be as smooth as possible and to keep the Flite Test Ideals in tact. Sadly I have to remind you NONE of that matters when it comes to what is happening. They have their agenda and you do NOT fit into it. Your role will devolve from a mediator and voice for the hobby into one of placate and pander because after all the effort to "Work" with the F.A.A. / gubment (I think that term now deserves an R) yes.. the gRubment will get what it wants because no one stood strong and told them flat out NO.

I know this is all soap boxy and ranty and political but it needs to be said and people need to really start thinking about what is going on. Once this all collapses here the world will soon follow when we are no longer the support structure.

There is no need to reply as this is just something to add to the thought process when you weigh what you want to do vs what you have to do.

 

[Scotto]

I would love to help you with becoming a FRIA when the FAA gets around to that requirement. The first thing we need is for them to make up their mind about how they want to recognize CBO's.

Sponzs' field sounds great as is. Why on earth would you want to make it regulated by a federal government agency that decrees where exactly you can fly, when, what, why, a whole bunch of hows, and who's allowed as long as they can provide the proper papers and pay the required taxes, registration fees, and cbo membership dues, of course.?

Once they do that, I think the rest will fall into line...I hope!

Right.... honestly I would love to buy an FTCA membership because I love the hobby, but if its mostly about compliance with BS regulations that will most certainly kill the hobby- this one will not fall in line.

 

[Hondo76251]

Im pretty far down the libertarian slope. As in, closer to Anarchist than D or R...

But an important thing to consider is that "not participating" and "not complying" can be dangerously similar...

I support anyone whos in a position to give some pushback to the FAA, even if its not as far or as hard a push ad I'd like.

Whats the alternative? And are you really willing to go that far? And if you are, how many do you think would actually support you if you haven't built a community to stand with you?

 

[FTCA Director]

@FTCA Director

So.. I'm going to assume by the way you directly avoided answering any thing specific that you will be holding strong on the "Lets Compromise" method. I get you can not publicly go in depth with formal proclamations and I understand the need to protect the "Empire" that is Flite Test. After all there is an awful lot riding on these changes both for the hobby as well as financially for all those the Flite Test business supports.

I will just remind you how a Government operating on the level ours is currently running thru a short lesson. Remember the Boston Tea Party.

We are at that stage in the United States evolution where that type of thinking and action is needed once again. If you think about it we are a miniscule part of that whole evolution and a test bed for the people in power to see how the masses will react and devise plans to manipulate that to meet their end goals. If small things like our hobby get run over by the process think about how much easier it will be when more and more dejected people who lost their hobbies are faced with more important things they will try and take away. Flash back to that video and how this is all planned and happens in stages to beat people into submission. This is LIVE and this is REAL so I will play the role of Paul Revere and tell you "The British ARE coming".

I get your role is the face of the FTCA and maybe even a sector of the hobby as well. I get you want things to be as smooth as possible and to keep the Flite Test Ideals in tact. Sadly I have to remind you NONE of that matters when it comes to what is happening. They have their agenda and you do NOT fit into it. Your role will devolve from a mediator and voice for the hobby into one of placate and pander because after all the effort to "Work" with the F.A.A. / gubment (I think that term now deserves an R) yes.. the gRubment will get what it wants because no one stood strong and told them flat out NO.

I know this is all soap boxy and ranty and political but it needs to be said and people need to really start thinking about what is going on. Once this all collapses here the world will soon follow when we are no longer the support structure.

There is no need to reply as this is just something to add to the thought process when you weigh what you want to do vs what you have to do.

Until then I will keep my tin-foil hat handy, and will continue the pursuit of a community that can and is making a difference. Maybe the difference that is being made may not resonate with your outlook, but the hobby that I want to protect, and the “Empire” that I will promote, has already established a platform for the purpose it was intended for. I welcome the continued dialogue, but please understand that I do have a responsibility and it will be pursued. Thanks!!

 

[basslord1124]

@FTCA Director ....glad to see you venture onto the forums...a medium I feel that has been left out while the bigger forms of social media take over. I grew up in a generation of the early days of the internet with forums, chat rooms, etc. So I still have somewhat of a preference towards them, but I still post on a few other forms of social media. So I'm not too much against some of the other social media forms.

I think what FT has done for the hobby has been a very great and positive thing that has inspired the younger generation which is what the hobby definitely needs. I honestly wish the FTCA was formed years ago instead at this current stage in the game where the hobby has been so heavy under the radar from the government. Regardless I hope that you all will continue to be a strong voice for the hobby to help keep it "flying". I definitely still suspect the government will crack down pretty tough on us. To me, the government thing, falls into the "protect us from ourselves" type of mentality...as well as some other "monetary" reasons I suspect. And frankly, it saddens and irritates me that it has come to this. Flying toy planes and drones are a danger apparently.

I fly at an AMA field and probably the only FT representative/member there...everybody else flies Horizon Hobby/Flex Innovations foamies and gas/glow balsa planes. Most members are of the older generation, and I am probably in the younger generation there (I'm 40). I also fly some occasional balsa planes too.

I would probably type more but it is time to get my little one ready for bed. Again, thanks for joining the crew here on the forums.

 

[FTCA Director]

Sponzs' field sounds great as is. Why on earth would you want to make it regulated by a federal government agency that decrees where exactly you can fly, when, what, why, a whole bunch of hows, and who's allowed as long as they can provide the proper papers and pay the required taxes, registration fees, and cbo membership dues, of course.?

Right.... honestly I would love to buy an FTCA membership because I love the hobby, but if its mostly about compliance with BS regulations that will most certainly kill the hobby- this one will not fall in line.

It’s not ALL about compliance, but I would be lying if I were to say that it didn’t have its part. The FTCA is about rallying a community that was built on the premises of bringing people into a hobby that has been so closed-minded for such a long time. We’re about providing opportunities for the next generation to enjoy what we are now. It’s about helping people build relationships around a common interest.
If we have to obey the speed limit in order to drive across town, then we do. To think we all can throw caution to the wind and not comply with what is regulated is insanity. I’m not saying that we compromise our freedoms, I just think we choose wisely how we speed through town.

 

[Scotto]

It’s not ALL about compliance, but I would be lying if I were to say that it didn’t have its part. The FTCA is about rallying a community that was built on the premises of bringing people into a hobby that has been so closed-minded for such a long time. We’re about providing opportunities for the next generation to enjoy what we are now. It’s about helping people build relationships around a common interest.
If we have to obey the speed limit in order to drive across town, then we do. To think we all can throw caution to the wind and not comply with what is regulated is insanity. I’m not saying that we compromise our freedoms, I just think we choose wisely how we speed through town.

Im sorry. Im a head. You are doing the best you can and I should direct my anger at the government. That stuff just needs to be repealed so there is no frias or remoteid. Sorry

 

[PsyBorg]

Until then I will keep my tin-foil hat handy, and will continue the pursuit of a community that can and is making a difference. Maybe the difference that is being made may not resonate with your outlook, but the hobby that I want to protect, and the “Empire” that I will promote, has already established a platform for the purpose it was intended for. I welcome the continued dialogue, but please understand that I do have a responsibility and it will be pursued. Thanks!!

Please don't do that... getting all Facebook puffy with that "Ill keep my tinfoil hat handy" I am 57, college educated person who was brought up with morals and common sense. I have not killed my brain cells smoking weed or abusing other substances or alcohol power drinking on weekends. I turned down some seriously high bonuses to get into the Navys Nuclear Propulsion programs to be involved in aviation based jobs. So please don't talk at me like I'm one of those people who didn't finish high school or cant pull my pants up let alone speak a proper sentence.

I have been on these forums for coming on 6 years now. I believed in and have supported Flite Test that entire time as shown by the number of "Helpful" posts I have being the top poster here on the forums. I spent a TON of my time helping people here when Flite Test core team has pretty much ignored since the migration to Facebook began. If I didn't know something I would go out on the internet and learn it just to help people who would come here and have their questions sit unanswered for several days or longer. At the very least I got to know a lot of people here and gone that did have answers and pointed the person needing specific help in the proper direction.

So basically you can put that tin foil hat in the closet with your fuzzy bunny slippers and teddy bears and we can have a real discussion. That discussion needs to have added into it other things directly effecting what is and will be happening to the hobby to be effective. Beyond politics the things like the afore mentioned drug use as over half of the Entire new base of pilots following you are relying on for support use it and alcohol on a regular basis WHILE flying. Then add in mandatory tracking gear that not only adds weigh to aircraft meant to be small and light but will be cost prohibitive no matter how cheap foam board is. So many people here cry poor so much that they complain over $2 for a servo. These are ALL things that need to be considered AND addressed from your position if you want to truly have success.

Just because there is a huge following numbers wise on Facebook does not mean that there is as large a community willing to stand up for the hobby or persevere thru changes when regulation hits a tipping point. MANY people are already moving on to other things and walking away from RC flight already because of current and proposed new regulation which should also be a metric for how you engage in this battle.

The people in the hobby are talking to you guys and although your intensions are good they are telling you they love YOU and support YOU but they will not be supporting an over regulated over taxed hobby. Which means they wont be paying a CBO, they wont be flying at approved fields. They wont be buying regulated over priced products with mandatory tracking gear. Most of all they wont be buying some mass produced piece of junk that has to be sent to an "Authorized or Certified" company for repairs that happen very often as you well know no matter how much good intentions anyone has to keep the hobby alive. They will simply find something else less intrusive to do.

Dont just think out of the box. Think outside of the warehouse the box is sitting in full of things effecting the hobby.

 

[kilroy07]

Allow me to chime in. (my .02 if you will, whatever that is worth nowadays.)

I think some of us need to go back and read the title of this post.
This is about HOPE for the hobby, not Obama type hope, but the real stuff!

Now I know some (most here maybe) are fed up with organizations like the AMA, if your a drone/quad pilot I sincerely get it.
They threw you under the bus. (I am personally contemplating whether or not to renew this year because of that.)
I see the same attitude ("If it ain't balsa it ain't flying!!") at my local field, and frankly THAT's what's killing the hobby.
Recently I attended both a local AMA event and Flite Fest.
At FF kids were EVERYWHERE at the local event... I was the youngest person there (and I'm 53!).
I see FTCA as "By the people, for the people" and maybe a new home for those of us who are fed up with the "fixed wing balsa elites".
(To be fair, there are some GREAT Balsa guys, and believe me I truly appreciate the craftmanship, I'm speaking about the snobs here.)

We must also recognize that the media had a role in this. For months and months they vilified "drones" (a term now most of us ruffle our feathers at.) Then we started to see legislative action taking place. While I understand the need for a FaceBook account, I think PsyBorg made some really good points about the "real" support you can expect from that group.

Now I ask those of you who are ready to "make that last stand for freedom" have YOU reached out to your local government(s), your representative or congressman?! Or are you just shouting "Get off my lawn!" to any passerby?

Here in Springfield, I was flying at a local park and got a ticket because now we apparently need a permit to fly at city parks. I made a few calls, talked to my city board member and have a few sit-downs with the local park district and not only got the ticket waved, but had a REAL (positive) impact. Turns out the city was being pressured from the insurance agency to forbid RC activities all together. The guy tasked with dealing with that had no idea what the RC hobby was even about, so I brought in a few toys and showed him. Same thing Josh saw when he went to Washington, people who are being tasked with creating these "rules" usually don't have a clue. I've also found my congressman and representative to be just as clueless... on MANY issues in fact... I live in Illinois... (Pray for me!)

I understand there are some raw feelings, but lets try to express our concerns in a constructive way. Not bite the hand that has been offered.
Just as in America, we need more "come together" moments than anger and separation.

That's all I've got.

 

[MCNC]

Nice little speech there not sure why you have to add your political dig then say "come together". Odd

 

[SP0NZ]

Sponzs' field sounds great as is. Why on earth would you want to make it regulated by a federal government agency that decrees where exactly you can fly, when, what, why, a whole bunch of hows, and who's allowed as long as they can provide the proper papers and pay the required taxes, registration fees, and cbo membership dues, of course.?

If the only place you are allowed to fly without Remote ID is a FRIA, then the FRIA is the lesser of two evils IMO. Even if I do not agree with the new rules and regulations, I would still prefer to enjoy the hobby legally. I hope it doesn't come to that and we can carry on as normal, but I am not naive enough to think that it wont.

 

[kilroy07]

Nice little speech there not sure why you have to add your political dig then say "come together". Odd

I assume you are referring to the "Hope" comment.
That's coming from personal experience. I voted for Obama the first time, but after he strengthened the "Patriot Act"... I lost hope.
So, not so much a "political dig" but sharing a personal experience/opinion.

Now, back to the show.

 

[Hondo76251]

We've all been guilty of it. Putting hope in any politician is a fruitless thing to do. It doesnt matter who it is, what party, they dont have your best interest in mind. They are in office to further the agendas of the money that got them there. Thats not our fight, at least not here. Our fight is with these bloated overpowered bureaucracies and its not going to matter what side of the isle you're on. Getting the attention of your elected representatives and trying to get them to care enough to do something is about the only way to have any hope for any change. Even then it will take a consolidated effort from the comunity to have a chance.

 

[fliers1]

Please don't do that... getting all Facebook puffy with that "Ill keep my tinfoil hat handy" I am 57, college educated person who was brought up with morals and common sense. I have not killed my brain cells smoking weed or abusing other substances or alcohol power drinking on weekends. I turned down some seriously high bonuses to get into the Navys Nuclear Propulsion programs to be involved in aviation based jobs. So please don't talk at me like I'm one of those people who didn't finish high school or cant pull my pants up let alone speak a proper sentence.

I have been on these forums for coming on 6 years now. I believed in and have supported Flite Test that entire time as shown by the number of "Helpful" posts I have being the top poster here on the forums. I spent a TON of my time helping people here when Flite Test core team has pretty much ignored since the migration to Facebook began. If I didn't know something I would go out on the internet and learn it just to help people who would come here and have their questions sit unanswered for several days or longer. At the very least I got to know a lot of people here and gone that did have answers and pointed the person needing specific help in the proper direction.

So basically you can put that tin foil hat in the closet with your fuzzy bunny slippers and teddy bears and we can have a real discussion. That discussion needs to have added into it other things directly effecting what is and will be happening to the hobby to be effective. Beyond politics the things like the afore mentioned drug use as over half of the Entire new base of pilots following you are relying on for support use it and alcohol on a regular basis WHILE flying. Then add in mandatory tracking gear that not only adds weigh to aircraft meant to be small and light but will be cost prohibitive no matter how cheap foam board is. So many people here cry poor so much that they complain over $2 for a servo. These are ALL things that need to be considered AND addressed from your position if you want to truly have success.

Just because there is a huge following numbers wise on Facebook does not mean that there is as large a community willing to stand up for the hobby or persevere thru changes when regulation hits a tipping point. MANY people are already moving on to other things and walking away from RC flight already because of current and proposed new regulation which should also be a metric for how you engage in this battle.

The people in the hobby are talking to you guys and although your intensions are good they are telling you they love YOU and support YOU but they will not be supporting an over regulated over taxed hobby. Which means they wont be paying a CBO, they wont be flying at approved fields. They wont be buying regulated over priced products with mandatory tracking gear. Most of all they wont be buying some mass produced piece of junk that has to be sent to an "Authorized or Certified" company for repairs that happen very often as you well know no matter how much good intentions anyone has to keep the hobby alive. They will simply find something else less intrusive to do.

Dont just think out of the box. Think outside of the warehouse the box is sitting in full of things effecting the hobby.

I've been thinking outside of the box for decades. What do you think would happen to RC fixed-wing aeromodelling if it were possible to literally instantly teach people to fly RC airplanes skillfully on average within a couple of hours? I've been doing precisely that for decades, yet the powers that be refuse to even reply to my emails. The hobby is on very shaky grounds and it would seem that they would turn over every stone to find a solution. They wouldn't even reply to the many emails I sent to flite test. I've provided undeniable proof time and time again. Time is running out and no one shows any urgency. Everyone seems to think that the solution is just around the corner. Rant over.

 

[Mr.Grinch]

Lee,
I’m glad to see that you are taking the time to come here and try to communicate with the true FT fans and advocates. The big social media outlets may have the numbers but I believe this is where you will find the people that will benefit the most from being able to communicate with you and the others at FT (if you can bring them back here to us). Are you going to be handling FT questions AND FTCA or just FTCA?
Many of us deep down support FT and want to see nothing but success for the business and the people involved. On the other hand there have been LOTS of complaints about the direction things seem to be heading. That largely has to do with the lack of communication and not necessarily the choices that are being made. Most of us do understand the need to protect the business and intellectual property but there is still the feeling that FT is drifting too far from its core and is becoming more about the money and the YouTube subscribers and Facebook followers etc.
Heres a line of questioning that may or may not be in your AOR. It’s great to see that new designs are now being released again. What’s the actual plan for the plans? Will the free FTCA members only see a portion of the future plans to be released and those that pay with have access to more/all new plans? Since Overstreet has sooooo many designs “ready”, and there seems to be a schedule of three new SBK’s quarterly, will everything get a plan released? Will some planes only be SBK’s, some only plans?
I have little desire to delve into the political debates, especially in your intro/hope thread, so I would suggest creating a separate thread that deals specifically with the FTCA/FAA interactions and try to keep the hope thread a happy place. Maybe even create several threads to reach out and confront the most prominent questions that are being asked throughout this forum.
Thank you for your time and effort.

 

[CappyAmeric]

..
Now I know some (most here maybe) are fed up with organizations like the AMA, if your a drone/quad pilot I sincerely get it.
They threw you under the bus. (I am personally contemplating whether or not to renew this year because of that.)
I see the same attitude ("If it ain't balsa it ain't flying!!") at my local field, and frankly THAT's what's killing the hobby.
Recently I attended both a local AMA event and Flite Fest.
At FF kids were EVERYWHERE at the local event... I was the youngest person there (and I'm 53!).
I see FTCA as "By the people, for the people" and maybe a new home for those of us who are fed up with the "fixed wing balsa elites".
(To be fair, there are some GREAT Balsa guys, and believe me I truly appreciate the craftmanship, I'm speaking about the snobs here.)..
.

Many great points! As an FPV quad pilot, AMA sold us for their thirty pieces of silver and they think that the FAA will leave them alone. The FAA won't leave anyone alone - they thrive on regulating. AMA thinks that being currently the "only real CBO" will mean that they can set the rules the FAA will make everyone else follow. AMA is about to find out how thick and contradictory that FAA rule book is going to get.

But the real problem with AMA is not their naivety regarding the FAA - the real problem is they are mostly an "old man's club" (at 63, I can say that). Survival requires young people, and being "sticks in the mud" does not invite youth. Nothing kills a buzz like an FAA inspector asking to see everyone's TRUST certificate, or an AMA club ruling that no one can fly any sized plane at their field until approved by the "safety officer" (UMX-sized plane is a toy but needs approval from a "safety officer"?).

Flite Test is the antithesis of the AMA. Their YouTube channel is about trying crazy things, and laughing a lot while doing it. Hopefully, FTCA will be a way for the young among us to be covered by a CBO, but at the same time still be fun.

Making everything 100% about "safety" will be like dumping a bucket of water on a campfire. We need a balance of making the hobby fun and approachable while staying safe - something the FAA and AMA are clueless about. Perspective is an important part of that balance. My professional aviation life has been always about safety - tens of thousands of hours of accident free time attest to that. While I know that serious injury can occur with some R/C planes, (and certainly quads), the FAA and the AMA are conflating aircraft safety and UAS safety.

 

[Hondo76251]

Good one to watch.

43:00 mark: Check out how the FAA feels about the airspace between your house and the tops of your trees...

I had hopes that they would consider "shielded operations" as that would be the perfect place for a hobby to reside, on private property below your own tree line.

They think they own that, "for the most equitable use of the airspace..." 😡

This is a bigger fight than just a hobby.

 

[CappyAmeric]

It is indeed far more than just the hobby - If more Americans knew that the FAA thinks they own the air from 1mm to infinity over their private property, there would likely be a very quick congressional mandate to tell the FAA that their jurisdiction regarding airspace is limited to what is necessary for commerce and interstate commerce - in other words, “usable airspace.” Useable airspace, or “uncontrolled airspace” is already defined as Class G. The FAA should have zero jurisdiction in Class G, period.

 

[CappyAmeric]

I dream of a time, following a successful lawsuit against the FAA”s overreach, that the FAA realizes they have lost all jurisdiction to Class G airspace, where even manned aircraft and their pilots operate totally unregulated - and the FAA collectively rues the day they started down the whole Remote ID boondoggle.