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098 The FAA debacle

PHugger

Church Meal Expert
#21
Drones have become this generation's UFO. Show me one of them or better yet catch one and I'll believe......
Same thing goes for Drones that "spy" on people. Show me some video, otherwise shut up.
Back up your claims or you just sound like a loon.


Best regards,
PCH
 

Ghan

Junior Member
#22
I'm gonna claim shenanigans. That is simply their excuse for Bypassing the "Good Cause" regulation that allowed them to bypass Public Comment.

I don't really want to call pilots liars, but flying at 3000ft and hundreds of miles an hour, I do not believe you can accurately identify something that small let alone see it. Have you ever had trouble trying to figure out which direction your model airplane is headed when it gets more that a few hundred feet away? A pilot hopefully paying attention to other things as well as the view, traveling fast, would have to have the eyes of an eagle to accurately identify a basically stationary drone. I'd love to see the near-miss report details - time of day, weather, speed, etc. Equip planes with DashCams and show me the video.

Catch some of these idiots. If you can't catch them you can't pass new regulations. Catch a few and punish them, then I'll listen.



Best regards,
PCH
A thousand times this. FAA, DOT etc. are just using a bunch of hype and unverified "reports" to justify expanding their authority. I work at a small local airport that has an AMA approved club ON IT. That's cool but me flying my "unregulated Drone" in my backyard is a problem? No problem as long as I pony up to pay off the FAA or their buddies the AMA? F that.
 
#24
I've read and re-read not only the official FAA thing but also the attempts at putting the rules into plain language and I can't help but notice that registration of "UAS" is limited to US Citizens and "resident aliens".
Plain old foreigners cannot register, "but feel free to pay the fee anyway, consider it a certificate of ownership instead."
They state the reason for that is that they cannot register foreign "UAS"s.

Wouldn't that basically mean that any foreigner flying their "unregistered, because we can't" "UAS" model airplane above 250 grams that they just built out of foam board at Flitefest would commit a breach of US airspace by foreign UAS?

Or, if foreigners are exempt from registration would that mean any american citizen or "resident alien" helping a foreign guest work out the kinks on their freshly built ft Storch would risk their livelyhood in fines (or jailtime) just by touching that transmitter?

I mean, you can't deal with common sense here, can you?

edit, after leaving common sense by the side of the road:
This just gave ma a thought concerning domestic "UAS" users: Since people are allowed to fly on somebody elses registration, as long as they can show a copy of the registration certificate to authorities wouldn't one registration in theory be enough for all US "Hobby-class UAS operators"?
After all, you can have any number of "UAS"s registered to one account...
 
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#25
this is the most futile "look at us doing something" bunch of nonsense the government pirates have pulled in a while. %99 of the things they claim this FAA number is needed for would either not have been prevented by having that stupid registration, or would not have been able to get the number after the event.

aside from the idiots crashing their phantom menaces at the US open or on the whitehouse lawn... show me where putting a stupid number on the side of my RC craft will stop or solve anything?

the ultimate trump card to this argument is always "well one of these days someone is going to take down a jumbo jet full of people with one of those things"

...yeah?

and what do you think happens to the little piece of paper that the number is written on as it gets sucked into and blown out of a friggen jet engine?

= solves nothing.
 

FAA-Tom

Junior Member
#27
So this is how the FAA files claims for Drones. Pilots call them in then boom that is it there is no fallow up that I can tell. Yes this is a power grab. Yes I know it stinks. Yes I understand that this will only get worse. Yes to all of that. I have read everything more then once and the wording is jacked and the outlines of what is or isnt a UAS is jacked. Even the air space limitations is jacked. I get all of that. Has there been strikes of UAS's in the past yes I know first hand yes. Are drones freaking people out yes. The why is the hard part. I know pilots are freaked out about them and know why. We also get calls from people saying drones are flying around their houses looking at them ( which 99.999999% of the time it is crazy people ). The people making the phone calls are not the people in the know, they are dumb people who think every drone they see is looking at them. Never once thinking that they just not that important as people to look at. That being said it gets logged. I love this sport and love flying. I fly "experimental" aircraft and have over 5000 hrs in a RQ-11B SUAV. Small plane big sky there is room for us all. Nothing the FAA is doing is going to stop the stupid people from doing what they want. It will only hurt the hobby as a hole. I think as a hole we need to come together as a group and try and show a better way to self regulate. Now the the government has its dirty hands in the money pot and has control over everything in the air I dont see it going away only getting worse.
 

razor02097

Rogue Drone Pilot
#28
this is the most futile "look at us doing something" bunch of nonsense the government pirates have pulled in a while. %99 of the things they claim this FAA number is needed for would either not have been prevented by having that stupid registration, or would not have been able to get the number after the event.

aside from the idiots crashing their phantom menaces at the US open or on the whitehouse lawn... show me where putting a stupid number on the side of my RC craft will stop or solve anything?

the ultimate trump card to this argument is always "well one of these days someone is going to take down a jumbo jet full of people with one of those things"

...yeah?

and what do you think happens to the little piece of paper that the number is written on as it gets sucked into and blown out of a friggen jet engine?

= solves nothing.
This isn't supposed to solve the issue. It is a crude attempt to make people responsible for their actions. The problem is they are doing it through FEAR. the FEAR that you will be fined...the FEAR that you will be identified if you fly your drone where you shouldn't.

The problem is (and this is proven time and time again through the writings of Charles Darwin) stupidity trumps fear every time. The FAA is trying to push this like it will identify the pilot of the DJI phantom that crashes into a building, plane, runway, car, whatever.

In fantasy land....
  • Idiot buys and registers his DJI phantom
  • Idiot crashes his DJI phantom into something important and runs away
  • FAA number identifies idiot
  • Idiot is brought to justice
  • Repeat

Meanwhile in the REAL world...
  • Idiot buys DJI phantom without registering
  • Idiot crashes his DJI phantom into pretty much anything the media can spin into more public fear and runs away
  • FAA blames the RC community and purposes more regulations
  • RC community suffers
  • Repeat
 
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#30
the ultimate trump card to this argument is always "well one of these days someone is going to take down a jumbo jet full of people with one of those things"
I find it kind of funny that people think 1 "drone" can take down a jumbo jet. All Jets I know of are able to fly on one engine . Now a swarm of "drones" into both engines. Possible, but unlikely.
 
#31
I find it kind of funny that people think 1 "drone" can take down a jumbo jet. All Jets I know of are able to fly on one engine . Now a swarm of "drones" into both engines. Possible, but unlikely.
which brings us to the next logical point...

when are we going to see the FAA force registration of canadian geese?

 
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PeterGregory

CrossThread Industries
#32
You're missing a major point. The FAA is (trying to be) able to say they shot the boogey man. They are throwing all RC flying under the bus to get the sound bites for MSM. This is a PR play as much as anything.

Let them outlaw multirotors completely, I care much more about the heritage of model aviation up to this point in history than to be taken down by multirotors. Let multirotors stand on their own. Let AMA form an add-on for those who choose to fly multirotors or FPV of any kind. This is the clear cut solution. multirotors aren't getting much sympathy from the Rest of World of model aviation.
 
#33
I must respectfully, but vehemently disagree. Either you protect ALL model aviation or you don't protect any of it. You can't just pick one facet of the hobby and claim it deserves protection while all others can be outlawed.

The vast majority of multi-rotor pilots fly in much the same way as sport and 3D flyers -- trying to wring as much performance and precision out of their aircraft as possible over their courses. You don't see quad racers or aerial photography enthusiasts flying over airports or wild fires.

It is those individuals who aren't interested in model aviation or performance flying that should get the blame for all the problems we are facing, not the particular type of aircraft.

If your wish to outlaw multi-rotors comes to pass, you'll see the demise of a good portion of Flite Test. And when self-flying fixed wing aircraft then become the toy of choice for invading airspace, the powers that be will then come for ALL fixed wing aircraft.

While I am enjoying my explorations into multi-rotor flying, my main passion will always be fixed wing... it would be of little impact to me if I couldn't fly multi-rotors ever again. But I will staunchly defend ALL types of model aviation -- they are all important facets of an incredibly rich hobby.
 

FlyingMonkey

Stuck in Sunny FL
Staff member
Admin
#37
You're missing a major point. The FAA is (trying to be) able to say they shot the boogey man. They are throwing all RC flying under the bus to get the sound bites for MSM. This is a PR play as much as anything.

Let them outlaw multirotors completely, I care much more about the heritage of model aviation up to this point in history than to be taken down by multirotors. Let multirotors stand on their own. Let AMA form an add-on for those who choose to fly multirotors or FPV of any kind. This is the clear cut solution. multirotors aren't getting much sympathy from the Rest of World of model aviation.

And the heritage of the hobby will go back to dying out the way it did before the shot in the arm Multirotors and FPV gave us.
 
#38
I will start off by saying that these steps taken by the FAA are obnoxious.

Getting that out of the way, I wish the R/C Aviation community would take a page out of the HAM radio community. Granted you need to apply for a license and take some tests in order to operate on the HAM bands, we are also self policed and relatively self regulated. Sure, the FCC has rules we need to follow but in general we keep each other policed and within those regulations without the the FCC breathing down our necks all the time (as I feel the FAA seems to like to do).

The AMA should take a look at how the ARRL (American Radio Relay League) works with the FCC to ensure the HAMs are self regulated. Sure, the ARRL is not perfect but I feel like it's the best example we have.

/rant on I know fellow gun nuts may say that the AMA should follow the NRA as an example but if the NRA really worked for me, the SBR and SBS designations to the National Firearms Act would have been nulled and void decades ago... /rant off.
 

FlyingMonkey

Stuck in Sunny FL
Staff member
Admin
#39
Hi GM.

I agree, but in a different way. I wish they would work to get our own HAM version of a FPV certification. I have been saying that I would love to see a certification process like they have at dive shops. It is run by an organization (PADI or NAUI) that provides the learning and testing material to local dive shops. You go to them for your training.

If the AMA was to take this up, they could offer the classes at larger events, where they could really do a good job of recruiting new pilots, and drawing in existing pilots who didn't have a local hobby shop to train at.
 
#40
While there are some similarities to the ham world, there are some major differences that must be considered.

My ham radio is capable of emitting 100 watts of radio frequency (RF) power that is capable of traveling around the world, potentially interfering with other radio operators around the world.

Yet, many millions of people use RF emitting devices -- Cell phones, CB radio, FRS, GMRS, WiFi, bluetooth, microwave ovens, etc., without requiring registration of any type.

Imagine requiring every cell phone or WiFi user having to register (i.e., get permission from the federal government) because some nimrods were playing with GPS jammers near an airport.

In the RF world, there are various levels of restrictions based on the frequency on which you operate, as well as the power output (e.g, the range over which you might have an impact). For the vast majority of RF users -- cell phones, WiFi, FRS, etc. -- operation is permitted without any license and registration (with a few notable restrictions about WHERE you may operate these devices, such as in hospitals, commercial airlines, in the vicinity of radio astronomy observatories, etc.). But, if I step up to power output and frequency ranges that might affect a broad area of users, then licensing is required.

Accordingly, there are various levels of licensing for RF users -- several levels of ham radio (hobby) licensing that grant different levels of frequency, mode, and power privileges, as well as marine, aviation, and commercial users, radar systems, etc.

If you want to use the ham radio analogy, there should be no registration for flyers (of any type) as long as you meet certain operational requirements: Altitude, range, proximity to airfields, etc. For the vast majority of r/c flyers, this means that we can operate as before without the FAA having any interest in our activities.

However, there could be levels of certification for those interested in long-range FPV, high altitude flying, commercial operations, etc. In other words, if your activities could conceivably impact other users of the National Airspace System (or the general public on the ground), then you would be required to prove some level of competence, safety, and awareness of appropriate regulations.

And, of course, severe punishments should be meted out for those nimrods who fly their off-the-shelf toys in such a way as to endanger or impede the general public.
 
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