Attach Camera to Carbon Fiber Mount Question

[kah00na]

I have an FPV250 with the carbon fiber cage. How are people mounting the camera to the small piece of CF wedged between the upper and lower plates? I've seen some with nylon spacers and some with some anti-vibration connections. I've looked around and can't figure out what pieces they're actually using. I guess they are such simple parts that nobody thinks they are important to mention. I'd like to know the screw size or the nylon spacer size. Also, if anyone can point me to anti-vibration pieces that would work, I'd love it. I'm looking to use just a board camera with no case.

This is more what I'm looking to do:




This guy has the nylon spacers.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

The top photo will not work. Any movement of the isolated plate 'up' will pass the vibration down thru the metal screws.

Get some silicon/rubber bearings, they work awesomely and are dirt cheap.

 

[kah00na]

Based on the 2 sets of dimensions on the DX page, those vibration dampeners are either way too big or way too small to fit in the PZ board cam and CF holes.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

Something that is also a very good method for a compression isolator is getting thick walled surgical tubing. . . something like 1/4" O.D. with an I.D. of 3/32". . . and using plastic screw through the plate and that's large enough in diameter to fit tight down inside the tubing about 1/4" deep. . . from each end. . . with a gap between the two screws of around 1/4".

That's a 3/4" gap, and will work just like the round bearings. The only thing that would need to be checked is that the floating platform can easily hold its mass inverted without pulling free.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

The top picture is the same idea as the Blackout mini H quad and works well.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

From the review by rcmodelreviews, it shows the Mobius mount on the mini-H using total isolation bearings.

But you're right, the cardcam does have O-ring, one direction isolation. I agree with Bruce, the O-rings may be primarily to reduce damage from impact, (compressing the O-rings during forward impact), and vibration mitigation is a bonus. But with 5" props and very high KV motors, I would imagine vibration issues would be minimal with very high frequency vibration produced, if any vibration at all. What I've noticed is the PZ0420 is very forgiving to high frequency vibration. Almost as tolerant as a GoPro.

 

[RAM]

I used to do something called a shimstack. You would have to experiment but it's a simple idea for vibration control.

Just layers of thin metal followed by something flexible (rubber/foam/whatever) followed by more alternating layers of each. Something about that stiff/flex/stiff/flex setup just seems to work.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

From my experience from screwing around with isolation mediums and ultra small cameras (<20g), it all comes down to how loose the mount is and how soft or flexible the medium holding the camera is, IF the method uses only a vibration lowering material.

Using suspension techniques like cable or wire, it's all about using a cross section just small enough to support the mass and removing the vibration vector well out of alignment with the suspension material (coils or bent wire).

And both of the above are helped allot by adding mass to the platform that is suspended to help further drop the frequency.

However, one method I had some favorable results, but never entirely pursued, was using a "stockbridge" type dampener. I happened to recall an entomology course I had taken at university several years ago. Many flying insects have counterbalancing structures called a haltere. Halteres are knob-like protuberances on stalks to help counterbalance and stabilize the wings in flight, and to keep the head of the insect from falling in and out of resonance with the beating wings.

Early on, during my first monstrosity, I attached two skewers with small nuts on the end, and attached them solidly to the camera housing part of a Foxtech V3. (a Foxtech V3 is actually two separate modules, attached by a ribbon) After several flights I had tuned (length of skewer, orientation, size of small nut, etc) the configuration very close to the 'sweetspot' of maximum vibration cancellation and reduced the jello noticeably. It's something I've always wanted to perfect, but never got back to it.

 

[RoyBro]

The top photo will not work. Any movement of the isolated plate 'up' will pass the vibration down thru the metal screws.

Get some silicon/rubber bearings, they work awesomely and are dirt cheap.

Hey Cyber,

Can you show the proper method of mounting the rubber bearings? I picked some up from the Hobby King US warehouse. I've seen them mounted a few different ways but some of them don't really make sense to me (as you pointed out in the top photo).

 

[Cyberdactyl]

It's pretty straight forward. Most silcone/rubber bearings have a main body with a neck and flange at each end. You drill a hole in your plate the size of the neck, or maybe very slightly smaller. You then pinch the flange down and pass it through the hole for mounting.

There's two methods. You can put the bearing in tension or compression. Tension is probably the most unsafe method since it's always putting stress on the thin flange, and high g could rip it away from the dirty frame. However, enough bearings should be used so that flipping inverted doesn't rip the platform and camera free. They are designed for compression, and most configurations do that.

'Dirty' is the part of the copter with the vibration.

But some ingenuity is required to hang an isolated load in compression such as a gimbal. If you look at most small gimbals now, they pass screws from the isolated plate down through the dirty plate to the gimbal with the bearings holding up the isolated plate.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

From the review by rcmodelreviews, it shows the Mobius mount on the mini-H using total isolation bearings.

But you're right, the cardcam does have O-ring, one direction isolation. I agree with Bruce, the O-rings may be primarily to reduce damage from impact, (compressing the O-rings during forward impact), and vibration mitigation is a bonus. But with 5" props and very high KV motors, I would imagine vibration issues would be minimal with very high frequency vibration produced, if any vibration at all. What I've noticed is the PZ0420 is very forgiving to high frequency vibration. Almost as tolerant as a GoPro.

That camera install won't work in a crash because it is set up the wrong way. The camera would have to be hit from behind to compress the rubber mounts. The bolts are nylon too, not metal. Either way the system works well and allows youto change the camera angle as well.

I would take Bruce's view with a grain of salt since Blackout sent that Mini H to Bruce nearly completely assembled since he didn't trust him to do it properly. It was for advertising reasons not because he respected his opinion that it was sent there.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

It was for advertising reasons not because he respected his opinion that it was sent there.

That's sort of an oxymoron.

If they didn't respect his opinion why risk a crappy review? And he would have certainly done that if he thought it was crap and hurt their bottom line. I think a lot of manufacturer's send stuff to him because they want a raw, unbiased review where they stand on their product by someone who's been in the hobby longer than many of us have been alive. That's exactly why many in the hobby run so hot and cold with him.

Also the O-rings DO compress from the copter hitting at the front. But if the camera itself strikes the ground or tree, etc. then you're right, it would be a solid hit.

Also, I shouldn't have said "won't work". I should have said, it's a half measure for isolation. And the cam in Bruce copter should have been mounted 8mm further back.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

Actually he respects Bruce's "pull" on the RC community just like the Flitetest guys. If you can get those people to give the thumbs up you'll a busy boy because everyone tends to blindly follow they're advice. Take RTFQ for example or the sudden popularity of the Naze 32. I think HK owes most of its profit margins from the DT750 to David regardless of if it's a good product or not. It was a given that he'd enjoy the mini h quad once he flew it. The local pilots here have known how how good the idea is for a while. He just wasn't allowed to stuff up the build or setup which could ruin things so he was given it almost ready to fly. I'm surprised Blackout didn't send it with an FC already installed as well. Bruce is still flying on the stock PID's which tells a lot about his tuning/flying skills. Blackout is very savvy about promoting the brand. From shipping the product to the right people to advertise, to keep the mystery of Mr. blackout, he does it well and kudos to him.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

Yes, Bruce was inexperienced to multirotors up until around 2 months ago. Before that he had that little Walkera Ladybird and some clunky quad with an untuned KK2 last year, or at least that's all he referenced. He was raving and giving credit to some mini quad guys (don't think it was the Blackout) as of 3 or weeks ago about putting the battery mass on the floating platform to drop the vibration frequency.

But when it comes to the general RC hobby and electronics, he is pretty knowledgeable and knows a lot the component history.

 

[FinalGlideAus]

This is true, he does a good job with his YouTube channel and his electronics tips it's are quite helpful.