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Attack Drone????

FDS

Elite member
#81
I would certainly consider deliberately not registering anything.
If we actually looked at what causes most near miss or strike scenarios in civil aviation I would think we would be looking at tagging all birds above sparrow size and putting weights on their feet so they can’t fly above 400ft.
The proposal also includes lowering the 400ft limit for flying. I can understand that possibly in controlled airspace or urban areas but it still smacks of pointles laws that are unenforceable and targeting the wrong problem.
 
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IanSR

Active member
#82
We won't have to register anything, it's a pilot registration scheme (which is even worse lol).

For the record, the CAA knew nothing of Graylings announcement until he stood up in Parliment. Just goes to further prove they don't know what they are doing.

I did read in the last BMFA newsletter that they were trying to negotiate a registration examption for members flying at BMFA designated sites, but knowing them they'll also exclude multi rotor pilots from that like they did with the height limits exemption last year. The BMFA really need to stop burying their heads in the sand over this, nobody outside the organisation gives a shit about the difference, we're all drone pilots to Joe Public regardless of what we fly.
 

IanSR

Active member
#84
He's rocked up at Heathrow too.

Amazing, millions of pounds worth of equipment and new laws "guaranteed" to stop this invested/installed in the last two weeks, yet planes are now grounded at Heathrow as a result of a "drone".

Is Heathrow up for sale by any chance?
 

FDS

Elite member
#85
Which was probably outside the existing 1km but still caused them to stop everything.
Meanwhile a whole flock of geese and several swans sat on the nearby gravel pits BLANTANTLY preparing to FLY in the airspace...
 

CarolineTyler

Legendary member
#86
Quote from BBC website...

BBC cameraman Martin Roberts, who works with drones, said he was driving on the M25 past Heathrow airport at about 17:45 GMT when he saw what he believes was a drone.
"I could see, I'd say around 300 feet up, very bright, stationary flashing red and green lights, over the Harmondsworth area," he said.


He was driving on the M25, and could tell it was stationary and 300 feet up???
It was dark - so judgement of height is far more difficult.
He was driving - so judgement of if an object in the sky is stationary or not is far more difficult.
He was driving on a motorway - so he attention should be on the road, he's ability to properly identify the 'drone' is impaired.
 
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Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#87
Quote from BBC website...

BBC cameraman Martin Roberts, who works with drones, said he was driving on the M25 past Heathrow airport at about 17:45 GMT when he saw what he believes was a drone.
"I could see, I'd say around 300 feet up, very bright, stationary flashing red and green lights, over the Harmondsworth area," he said.


He was driving on the M25, and could tell it was stationary and 300 feet up???
It was dark - so judgement of height is far more difficult.
He was driving - so judgement of if an object in the sir is stationary or not is far more difficult.
He was driving on a motorway - so he attention should be on the road, he's ability to properly identify the 'drone' is impaired.
Ever think he was right about everything BUT that he was driving. Perhaps he was stopped on the shoulder and flying his drone for the cameras!

just a thought!

have fun!
 

FDS

Elite member
#88
This post is well worth reading, linked in Bruce’s excellent Heathrow rant!
https://jethead.wordpress.com/2015/08/08/airliners-vs-drones-calm-down/

Nicely points out that the number of drones near aircraft will never exceed the number of heavier birds, strikes from which are by far the most common incidents and against which aircraft are quite reasonably tested and hardened.
Where is the balance in the media coverage right now? If I was to write an article and submit it to a news agency would it be published? Probably not. If I said I had bad quality video of what may or may not be a drone near or far away from an airport would they PAY me for the video? Probably.
 
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cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
#89
BBC cameraman Martin Roberts, who works with drones
Media trying to be the story.

I think anymore the more excited and breathless the reporter, the more likely I am to change the channel. I miss the days of Walter Cronkite when reporters reported the news and didn't try to be the news.

There's a lyric from a song that fits here... "Neither the brave nor bold will write as the story is told." -MJK

Love this thread. It's really bringing out my inner anarchist. :)
 

IanSR

Active member
#90
To be fair the BBC camera-man was probably stationary for so long on that stretch of the M25 he could have had afternoon tea before moving its that gridlocked most of time, if I have to go past Heathrow I do it at 6am, and even then it's down to a 40mph crawl most days.

But it does make me laugh, he saw flashing red and green lights in the air, next to the Countries busiest airport? What did he honestly expect to see, flying unicorns?
 

FDS

Elite member
#91
There is grainy footage on DM online which reputedly shows the drone, I couldn’t see it being near the perimeter fence, it looked more like it was over the other side of the road, not in a great place and probably within 1km (geofence fail) but outside the fence.
It was a DJI style outline, as opposed to a hobbyist style quad.
Do they ground all flights if a goose flies the other side of the fence? I know the bird team are there to keep them off the field itself but I can’t imagine clearing all the ducks or larger birds from even a 1km radius of the fence is possible.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
#92
What did he honestly expect to see, flying unicorns?
I guess if he's been smoking what he's been reporting, anything is possible.

Been watching old clips of George Carlin while running DB updates since 3:00am this morning.... I'm tired and cranky and watching old and cranky. Can you tell? :)
 

JTarmstr

Elite member
#93
Quote from BBC website...

BBC cameraman Martin Roberts, who works with drones, said he was driving on the M25 past Heathrow airport at about 17:45 GMT when he saw what he believes was a drone.
"I could see, I'd say around 300 feet up, very bright, stationary flashing red and green lights, over the Harmondsworth area," he said.
Wow, BBC spotted the drone, you don't say, that definitely improves credibility.

If you see a airplane head on by the airport you will just see the wingtip lights provided the landing lights aren't on yet. But i don't even believe that, the news companies don't really care about credibility, all they care about is clicks, you want a crisis they give a crisis. They will move to the next sensational story as soon as the old scandal is exhausted. Drones just fit the bill, they aren't dangerous, they are just clicks waiting to happen, they are trending with social media. Its unfortunate but drones (and model fixed wing aircraft by classification) are the scapegoat now.

Anyway its to bad what they are doing in England. I'll bet the FAA has some nice laws planned for us in the states.
 

Captain Video

Well-known member
#95
Can you expand at all about the concessions? I fly mostly fixed wing but I do have a quad that is not a toy and I am building a 250mm quad as well.
 

FDS

Elite member
#96
Full report is here, it’s the consultation upon which legislation will be based.
Current laws in the UK do not require registration. That starts November this year, applies to quad over 250g. Existing laws which apply today also prohibit flight near airports and stipulate that if a drone has a camera or digital recording device it;
  • Must not be flown within 50m of buildings or persons
  • Pilots must already maintain DIRECT AND UNAIDED line of site with the aircraft, so no FPV beyond visual range.
  • Must not be flown within 150m of densely populated areas.
In addition as of July 2018 the 1km/400ft rule was in place around airports. This has already been proposed to be extended as outlined in numerous hysterical press rants.
Exemptions are currently going to be extended to members of the following organisations that are CAA approved die as a result of their excellent safety culture and training programs. BMFA, SAA, FPVUK, LMA.
Members of these organisations may, if qualified under their schemes,
  • May operate above 400ft within CAA guidelines. This seems to be aimed at flight over club fields and at meets etc.
  • Fly any UAV up to 3.5kg below 1000ft WITHOUT unaided visual contact PROVIDED uninterrupted first person view is maintained.
Those are the concessions to clubs as they stand, there is still room for further pressure. It looks like drones have been lumped in with fixed wing under the legislation. I might have been mistaken in the wording, to me a model aircraft is not a “drone” as it has no automated flight features at all and is fully under the control of the operator.

If you look at every bit of footage in the last series of incidents AND all the others I have seen showed UAV’s with cameras already breaching all the existing laws. These have been in force for some time and have clearly not stopped misuse, I have no idea why they think further regulations will suddenly stop rogue users. Every year more laws are passed governing what you can and cannot do whilst driving, yet most do not deter criminals or repeat offenders from breaking them.
I doubt any of this will make any difference in my local area. You rarely see any police here and it usually takes at least 30 mins for them to get here, by which time my battery will be flat and I will be off!
 

IanSR

Active member
#97
The new regulations make no distinction between fixed wing and drones, in fact if it is not a balloon or a kite and flies outdoors, then it's a drone and covered by the regulations,, no exceptions. That means a 250g quad is considered just as dangerous the same as a 10kg 1/3rd scale Spitfire. Our club guy is quiet pissed because this new clarification makes DLG and flight line models now drones if over 250g and the flight line field is within the new Gatwick NFZ.

That document issued by Failing Grayling is laughable, they couldn't even get the details of the exemption issued to BMFA members by the CAA right, so what hope is there of them not one upping the Canadians when this all goes before Parliment and doing something stupid like making all objects in the air such as birds, illegal.

I asked the CAA for clarification a while ago on what was considered a drone and they couldn't give it because even they didn't know, I asked this because under the way the wording was, it made an r/c car doing stunts at the local skate park a drone, along with footballs, cricket balls etc. I'm glad to see they have clarified it now, but it's still about as clear as mud.

Our club has quiet a good relationship with the local airfield and they've already said they'll give us an exemption if the time comes because these new regulations have now made the 20+ years established flying fields illegal.

As for the "video", we live three clicks from the Police/AA base and that "drone hovering ove the runway" looked an awful lot like the copper chopper does when it's on final approach, so I wouldn't be suprised if again, someone saw the helicopter hovering and screamed drone, which is incidentally what happened a Gatwick.

As @FDS says, the coppers are so over stretched around here, it took them three days to respond to a burglary in progress at the school over the road last year, so what hope have they of nicking me with my race quad when the battery runs out after 5minutes. Although given that they will be able to issue fixed penalty fines, it wouldn't surprise me if drone reports were given higher priority than burglary and murder, that just the kind of incompetence I've come to expect from Surrey and Susex plod.
 
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kpixels

Antigravity or bust...
#98
No real answer required but rather a sounding board for those who fear that such a witch hunt could leave them with a hobby that becomes illegal!

have fun!
If it really did happen, then it probably wasn't RC or FPV at all. That's the only way anyone could have got away with it. It probably wasn't a DJI or other common off the shelf drone like everyone supposes either. With gps, any scratch built copter can be programmed to follow a predetermined path without external control. Law abiding RC and FPV enthusiast and artists will likely suffer from the hysteria tho.