Yup. Totally agree. Glad she will be all buttoned up and ready to go for FFE! I get back tomorrow afternoon and have a ton to do to get ready
BBA/Winter Build 2017/18 - Top Flite Corsair
- Thread starter willsonman
- Start date
Yup. Totally agree. Glad she will be all buttoned up and ready to go for FFE! I get back tomorrow afternoon and have a ton to do to get ready
Yep. Loads to do and work has been keeping me fairly limited from preparations. Robart still has not shipped but I do have a couple weeks left. In the meantime, I plan to hop back over to the Dauntless to address the issues there.
I've not made any final calls but I'm likely to only bring the Dauntless and the Corsair to FF. Since I'm picking up another FTer on my way there, I need to keep room in the car for his stuff too. It's possible I may just throw my Goldberg Eagle II in for something to bang the sticks on but my glider may take it's place since I can easily remove the wing and stow the whole shmear on bungee cords on the ceiling, out of the way. Dunno yet.
I've not made any final calls but I'm likely to only bring the Dauntless and the Corsair to FF. Since I'm picking up another FTer on my way there, I need to keep room in the car for his stuff too. It's possible I may just throw my Goldberg Eagle II in for something to bang the sticks on but my glider may take it's place since I can easily remove the wing and stow the whole shmear on bungee cords on the ceiling, out of the way. Dunno yet.
Ok, so I called Robart yesterday to see what was going on. It was hard to tell from their website whether or not the cylinders were something they keep in stock. Nice lady on the phone was unsure so she checked on things and called me back. They assembled the cylinders yesterday and were currently testing them and they should be shipped tomorrow. That means I should get them just in time to install them both for FF and have zero issues.
As a stop-gap I tried a couple other things to repair the one bad cylinder. I ended up using epoxy and it held pressure for over 12 hours, losing only 10 psi. If something catastrophic happens, I do have a backup plan.
As a stop-gap I tried a couple other things to repair the one bad cylinder. I ended up using epoxy and it held pressure for over 12 hours, losing only 10 psi. If something catastrophic happens, I do have a backup plan.
I got nitification of shipment of the cylinders. Should be here in about a week. Plenty of time to get them installed before I leave for FF.
I got the new cylinders yesterday and the install was super easy. Only took a couple of minutes.
This morning I got both new cylinders fitted into the aircraft.
This morning I got both new cylinders fitted into the aircraft.
I got my airplane rack built yesterday. Since I'll be picking up a friend on the way to FF, I wanted to make sure I had thinks packed efficiently as possible. Not to mention... Pittsburgh roads... They always seem to do something. Stacking these vertically should prove very efficient for travel and allow over half of the SUV for gear and whatever stuff I pick up at the airport. Cost for this rack was about $40 in PVC parts. Uses 1/2" Sch40 PVC and is quite sturdy. Between both airplanes we are at about 25 pounds of airplane.
Attachments
The airplane was fully assembled and had a FULL systems check. All the parts were tested and tugged on. Everything is secure. I checked the landing gear fully with the new cylinders and had to re-adjust the needle valves for up and down. No leaks and held pressure for over 20 cycles. Hopefully the sun will not change that too much. I put the wing in a padded bag I have to protect it a bit more and strapped the bombs into the battery bay. The fuselage is covered with a painters drop cloth to protect a bit in the rack.
She is ready for the big ball.
She is ready for the big ball.
Flight report:
There was no flight.
After Carl had a few botched take-off attempts with the P-40, and my botched attempt to fly the Dauntless, I decided that the only way she would fly was to take off and land on the grass. While there were ruts from farming growth lengthwise with the runway, there were a significant amounts of bumps in the grass from the knobby tires of the harvesting tractor. These caused my tail gear to break at a spot where they broke before. With the tail gear collapsed, I have no tension on the pull-pull wires to steer. Not safe and there was no way I was going to risk others, or the airplane, just to have her fly at one event.
So, she sat on display and I still had great conversations with folks. On my way back from my flight attempt I did pass by the Horizon tent. They were super impressed with the build and shot some video for their use. HH has every intention to continue the Top Flite brand. There are complications to that, as they explained, causing sourcing issues. The tooling, moulds, and dies used for these kits do wear and it seems that Hobbico did not pay up to get new ones made to continue to supply parts and kits. Some suppliers got burned by Hobbico and are now asking Horizon to pay the Hobbico bill before they start producing parts for Horizon... and Horizon is happy to pay for the new parts! So, the long-run of this story and strong takeaway that I got was that there will continue to be support for the Top Flite brand but it will take some TIME for things to settle down and get into the groove. Another note is that according to the marketing guys there, kits are just not selling anymore. The likelihood of getting new kits made is very low due to just doing business. ARFs sell and in order to make money, a company needs to sell product. If a product is not selling, they will not make it. I get that.
My big takeaway here is that my mind is slowly being shifted. I love kit building. HOWEVER, there can be a LOT of work done to ARF-bash a build and it be just as much work as a kit build with exceptional results. I used to frown upon ARF-bash builds but if done right, I can start to see that you can approach a build with the same fervor as a kit build. Thoughts from others would be welcome to be discussed in this space.
There was no flight.
After Carl had a few botched take-off attempts with the P-40, and my botched attempt to fly the Dauntless, I decided that the only way she would fly was to take off and land on the grass. While there were ruts from farming growth lengthwise with the runway, there were a significant amounts of bumps in the grass from the knobby tires of the harvesting tractor. These caused my tail gear to break at a spot where they broke before. With the tail gear collapsed, I have no tension on the pull-pull wires to steer. Not safe and there was no way I was going to risk others, or the airplane, just to have her fly at one event.
So, she sat on display and I still had great conversations with folks. On my way back from my flight attempt I did pass by the Horizon tent. They were super impressed with the build and shot some video for their use. HH has every intention to continue the Top Flite brand. There are complications to that, as they explained, causing sourcing issues. The tooling, moulds, and dies used for these kits do wear and it seems that Hobbico did not pay up to get new ones made to continue to supply parts and kits. Some suppliers got burned by Hobbico and are now asking Horizon to pay the Hobbico bill before they start producing parts for Horizon... and Horizon is happy to pay for the new parts! So, the long-run of this story and strong takeaway that I got was that there will continue to be support for the Top Flite brand but it will take some TIME for things to settle down and get into the groove. Another note is that according to the marketing guys there, kits are just not selling anymore. The likelihood of getting new kits made is very low due to just doing business. ARFs sell and in order to make money, a company needs to sell product. If a product is not selling, they will not make it. I get that.
My big takeaway here is that my mind is slowly being shifted. I love kit building. HOWEVER, there can be a LOT of work done to ARF-bash a build and it be just as much work as a kit build with exceptional results. I used to frown upon ARF-bash builds but if done right, I can start to see that you can approach a build with the same fervor as a kit build. Thoughts from others would be welcome to be discussed in this space.
Thanks for the info they were willing to share! Yeah, kit building is a small fraction of a relatively small hobby unfortunately. ARFs certainly have taken over and I own my share of them, but I'd much rather scratch-build from plans if needed.
I guess its the difference between a cake decorator and a baker! When I looked over your Corsair I could fully appreciate the time and effort to bring a pile of sticks to the level that folks like you and Carl achieve. You folks motivate me and keep me trying to make my builds even better. Please keep up the good work and leave the ARF bashing to others. As a side note its a good thing I went home on Friday cause my wife had her Appendix removed later that day. Not sure what would have happened if I had not gone home! Looking forward to FF19 and another winter balsa build. Steve
nhk750
Aviation Enthusiast
Well, Horizon could always update the old die crushed kits to laser cut and just supply laser cut kits per demand like the other laser cutting companies do. I would think that would reduce overhead and then you no longer need to maintain and replace expensive dies. Just supply kits per orders and run batches per month. Your lead time would be higher, but if you want to kit build you usually can wait.
I think, after I finish my next 4 "factory" kits, I may try some of the laser cut short or complete kits that the laser cutters are offering.
I think, after I finish my next 4 "factory" kits, I may try some of the laser cut short or complete kits that the laser cutters are offering.
Well, to get the CAD work done from any old dies, should they exist, would be also very expensive and time consuming. It would almost be better to ebay a kit and get a flatbed scanner and trace each part to get it done.
I can absolutely get on board with kit bashing. I look at it as a happy medium between buying an ARF because you like the look and just want to enjoy flying it and scratch-building a bird EXACTLY how you want it. You can take someone else's engineering and design and tweak it to make it unique (or more realistic) and get to a finished product faster. If (when) it goes in you don't have the same emotional investment. It also can be a fun distraction between tedious parts of larger builds by providing a little (relatively) instant gratification.
I know him pretty well and I'm certain willsonman would never limit himself to JUST kit bashing. I'd love to see what he could do with one of HH's ARFs
I know him pretty well and I'm certain willsonman would never limit himself to JUST kit bashing. I'd love to see what he could do with one of HH's ARFs
F106DeltaDart
Elite member
Sorry to hear about the damage, but glad to hear that you were treated well by the guys at Horizon. Hopefully they keep the Top Flite kits going, even if it means an extra investment. I would personally love to see a new kit version of that huge Hellcat they’re bring out. As for ARF bashing, it’s a lot of fun and I highly recommend it. Of course, it can’t replace kit building, but it’s a great side project. I’m eyeing up the new Hangar 9 Hellcat for a bash job. Skin the wings, add a tail retract, flaps, cockpit detail and a big old scale diameter 3 blade up front.
On the kit front, although many less big name companies are selling them, the variety available from private kit cutters is amazing now. No one would risk making big, obscure kits of planes like the XF-12 and Martin Mars, yet both are readily available. Then there’s are jet side, and places like Jet Hangar Hobbies that do simply amazing work. I definitely do hope that at least a few places keep the big name kits around though.
On the kit front, although many less big name companies are selling them, the variety available from private kit cutters is amazing now. No one would risk making big, obscure kits of planes like the XF-12 and Martin Mars, yet both are readily available. Then there’s are jet side, and places like Jet Hangar Hobbies that do simply amazing work. I definitely do hope that at least a few places keep the big name kits around though.
All good comments here, fellas. The community, in general, has seemed to take the approach that ARF-bashing is inferior to kit building. My additional thoughts on this relate back to the cake analogy above. As a decorator, you do not necessarily need to do the cake making itself. You may have the recipe delegated to another baker and the foundation for your cake is made. You take away and add to that foundation to create something as an end-product. While I do know how to make the foundation of a fantastic airplane, I can focus on the artistic bits more, which frankly I enjoy more.
There is another perspective we can look at here. A lot of folks do know the challenge and time investment in a build and just run out of steam at the end and get tired of a build. This leads to lackluster details and shortcuts that generally do a subject an injustice to the modeler's abilities. The ARF provides a path around this to help someone learn and do the detailing skills to really make something over the top. Not everyone is made for a 2-year long project. Being able to spend a few short months focusing on the fine details of an ARF that already has the backbone of a flying model will yield a higher caliber of finishing and we are apt to see more and more amazing flying works of art.
The more I think on this the more my heart is softening to the idea and I feel like we need to find new nomenclature to describe this type of building. ARF-bashing just seems like such a put-down with shame and disdain associated with it. There is a world of difference between assembling an ARF and really building/detailing an ARF.
There is another perspective we can look at here. A lot of folks do know the challenge and time investment in a build and just run out of steam at the end and get tired of a build. This leads to lackluster details and shortcuts that generally do a subject an injustice to the modeler's abilities. The ARF provides a path around this to help someone learn and do the detailing skills to really make something over the top. Not everyone is made for a 2-year long project. Being able to spend a few short months focusing on the fine details of an ARF that already has the backbone of a flying model will yield a higher caliber of finishing and we are apt to see more and more amazing flying works of art.
The more I think on this the more my heart is softening to the idea and I feel like we need to find new nomenclature to describe this type of building. ARF-bashing just seems like such a put-down with shame and disdain associated with it. There is a world of difference between assembling an ARF and really building/detailing an ARF.
Tench745
Master member
I'm sure you know, but others may not, "kit-bashing" is a common term in the modeling world for taking parts of multiple kits and/or fabricating new parts to modify a kit to make a model of a new subject. So, ARF-bashing, by extension would be combining ARFs to create a new plane.
This is a different thing than adding a lot of detail to an existing model kit, which is called "Detailing" or in the case of some builds "Super-detailing." So ARF-detailing would be my vote.
Similar threads
