Building quad for commercial aerial filming

[psychoL720]

Hey Guys/girls,
I know this question is asked in various ways, but from what I have searched through on these forums, I still dont have my answer, so I will ask it here. Appreciate all your help in advance!

Looking to build a quad for my cousin who does commercial filming. He wants a homebrew so it can be future expandable, unlike DJI phantom, in which your kinda stuck with what you get unless you start to crack open the shell etc...

I'm simply looking for build ideas that people have tried and proven. I know I can go to various websites to input weight to battery ratio specs and find out what kv motor to run and props etc.. but I was curious of builds that people did and really liked

Quad will be setup with Naza V2 with GPS, and will be carrying either a GoPro 4 black or blackmagic camera. So the weight of the camera alone could go from like 1lb to 3.5lbs. Thats pretty much the only "extra" payload the quad would need to carry, besides the fundamental electronics. Quad would be setup for FPV to align all video shots, but doesnt need crazy distance with UHF or anything like that. I'm more curious about the following:

What Frame do people recommend (frame will need a good gimbal attached that can accommodate a blackmagic camera)?

What motors do people recommend for a quad with a AUW of about 5lbs where I would need at least 7 minutes of flying time?

Any specific gimbal people have used to carry DSLR's or cameras weighing 3.5lbs that they like, that will also fit on the frame they like?

Thanks guys in advance. While I have alot of experience in building quads, I typically go for TBS frames, blackout or frames that dont support gimbals as my flying doesnt need them

 

[HawkMan]

Are you REALLY set on a Quad ?

if it's for commercial filming you're probably looking more at a Black Magic than a GoPro. but in either case, for commercial AP you want a few things

1: Stability
2: Reliability
3: Redundancy

a Quad somewhat satisfies 1, if it's large enough, technicaly a quad could be considered more reliable than a hex or octo due to less points of failure, but it also ties into 3, and a quad is anything but redundant. One thing goes wrong and you're down a very expensive rig.

If you're not set on a Quad I would suggest something like this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...0UC_Pro_Hexa_Copter_Umbrella_Carbon_Kit_.html

It's a hex so it's more reliable, you can have retractable landing gear on it to get that out of the way for a 3 axis gimbal so a camera operator can be fully independent of the direction of the pilot. even if they're one and the same person. it's also very big and thus very stable. It also has umbrella collapsing for transport. very handy with such a big rig.
The Tarot FY680 is much the same, but folds the arms and and forwards, get's a bit longer but otherwise has the same benefits.

I would probably reccomend somethign like the DYS D800 though
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...r_Aerial_Photography_And_Heavy_Lift_PNF_.html
It's large 800, so it's still rock solid stable, it's a quad, BUT, you can make it a 8X Octo. for extra redundancy, so you can either start out as a quad and upgrade later, or go straight for heavy lift redundancy. it's got arms that you can detach for transport making it easy to fit in a pelican case for transport, and it has all the power and control plugs in the quick connect so no need to worry about hooking up wires again on site. and the arms are color coded so you can't put them wrong. And of course it's big enough to easily support rectractable landing gear and a 3axis gimbal for the blackmagic or gopro.

Of course it's pricey, but it's going to be used as a commercial AP platform so you don't want to go cheap either. But then again, this kit comes with motors ESC's and retractable gear in the price for Quad config. With motors and all that you'll probably hit the same price as the other frames anyway. In Octo config I do believe this one should be able to carry a DSLR as well, at the very least a smaller mirorless model which is what's generally recommended today anyway, like a cheap Canon EOS-M or one of the sony NX models.

 

[psychoL720]

I'm not dead set on a quad, I did look into hexa's. For the hexa you submitted, lets say I wanted to carry the black magic, knowing I would need the hexa to transport roughly 5lbs of weight which includes itself and all electronics, what motors would you suggest? I typically shoot for SunnySky's since they are somewhat cheaper, but super reliable. I was thinking something like 900kv 2212 or 2213 motors? Any suggestions?

Also any preference on gimbals? Zenmuse are highly recommened, but MAN THE PRICE! 380 for a gimbal is kinda steep, although I know they are probably worth it, just hard to swallow. My cousin will probably start out with the gopro 4 black, but probably wants to be able to move up to the hexa carrying a black magic. I'm assuming a gimbal for a gopro would not then be "easily" transferable to carry a black magic? I have no experience with gimbals, I fly a TBS Disco with gopro hard mounted. Appreciate all your help!

 

[HawkMan]

I don't know about gimbals really, ZenMuse is generally suggested yeah, but expensive. For a GoPro a 50buck GoodLuckBuy gimbal with an AlexMos clone controller would probably do the job find, for 2 axis. but for anything other than a GoPro you'll need a lot of PID tuning on it :/

I also can't give much suggestion on motors, the quad comes with them ready mounted though so that one's a good place to start. it also lifts 6.5 KG's as a quad(it'll be a monster with 8 motors). not sure if that payload includes the frame weight. It seems weird to say 6.5Kg payload capacity if it includes the frame, but also 6.5KG sounds a lot in addition to 2.8kg Frame and motors.

 

[nilsen]

For such a setup I would get a GHT gimbal but I know the zenmuse ones are really nice and do a good job out the box.
I have a Tarot 2d gimbal and it needs a lot of setup to get it working correctly so maybe get the "real" stuff and just be done with it.

Regarding the motors, if you want to lift DSLR I think you'll need 390 kv and lower to swing some 16-18 inch props.
I have a hex with 780 kv motors and they can spin max 13 inch prop without overheating, it cannot however lift a DSLR, however with a gopro and gimbal it hovers at around 35% throttle and does easily 12 minutes on a 6000maH.

Hope this helps!

 

[Micha]

If you really want a professional grade camera platform without too many things to look after for.

Just go buy something like this: Spreading Wings S1000+ + A2 + Zenmuse Z15-5D III (HD)

It's got a price tag on it but it's for commercial aerial filming so it might be worth it.

 

[jipp]

but do you really want to trust dji to not shut your multirtor down with a firmware upgrade.. that would make me look far far away from DJI. just that fact they can and did to the one teh FT guys test was more than enough for me to know i would never want to deal with whatever politics they may fall into down the road.

chris.

 

[Ocean]

I agree with Chris and would stay away from DJI, especially due to the fact they can just disable your multi.

 

[HawkMan]

Also while the DJI has detachable arms. the quicj release arms on the DYS with the connectors for power and ESC control built into them is so much more convenient, and assures that not only can you set up your AP platform quickly on site, you can do it and be assured hat everything is correctly wired right away. minimizing possible points of failure and adding safety. Especially since you also won't have to worry about bullets losing connection(if these los connection you've also lost the arm, then you have bigger things to worry about )

 

[psychoL720]

Thanks for your help everybody. While I understand the idea behind the inspire is that if a firmware upgrade is available, the unit will lock if you dont upgrade, I have a question. Either the unit is required to be connected to the internet nightly for "maintenance" or whatever, or the unit is pulling down data from GPS satellites which is really impossible, since DJI doesnt own the GPS satellites. So how does the inspire know there is a firmware upgrade available. It must somehow need to get on your Wifi network each night, or maybe the radio does. Either way, I agree, its shady of them to put something like that in there, but I wouldnt buy a rotor from them that required this functionality. I have 3 FC's from them and there's no way they can mandate me to upgrade them. They just work, and quite nicely. That S1000 is a beast, but way overpriced for me. My cousin is looking into getting into this line of videoing, since he is losing business by not having this available. So dropping $4500 on that guy, is probably not gonna happen.

I'm thinking the hexa frame above is a great place to start for safety/reliability. Some low kv motors as prescribed with some big ole props. Naturally gonna be a 4s setup. Thanks also for the advice on the GHT gimbal, gonna check that out. Gimbal control would most likely be done via the Naza v2 FC. Anyone think that is a bad idea? All my naza's dont have gimbals, but I assume naza does gimbals well

 

[HawkMan]

My assumption is it either has a Amazon like built in 3G connection that allows it to pull down data. or it's a basic timer. i.e. it needs to be connected to a computer at least every so and so many days or it will disable. when it is connected to a computer it will also detect any available firmwares and the deadline to update to it.

another option is that since it's usually flown with a iphone or ipad connected, it can piggyback on those.