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Dat Guardrail

Monte.C

Legendary member
#21
Thanks bud!
I started with the pencil and drafting table as well. I used to use AutoCAD daily about 20 years ago. I still teach AutoCAD and Key Creator to high school kids on occasion.

Sketchup is not bad, but very limited. If you can get used to the user interface, I would suggest trying Blender. It is a very powerful suite and it is free. The down side is the UI, I can't get used to the way it works on a basic level. I am too used to the standards like 3DS MAX and Maya. But starting from scratch, you will not have that baggage to deal with.
Hey we speak the same language! Yup I've heard of Blender but know nothing about it. If this hobby takes me there, that might be where I have to go. I can push the limits of 2D work but I can't very well pull off all those sexy angles you've got there. Double like.
 

Tench745

Elite member
#22
I played with Blender a bit in college, maybe around 2008? I don't know if they've changed it since then, but the thing that drove me crazy about it was the lack of any kind of unit scale. Sure, you had a grid, but there was no way of knowing your zoom level or the end size of an object as you were sculpting it. It was a fun tool to putter around with and it gave me a better understanding of how 3D modelling can work.
 

Monte.C

Legendary member
#23
I played with Blender a bit in college, maybe around 2008? I don't know if they've changed it since then, but the thing that drove me crazy about it was the lack of any kind of unit scale. Sure, you had a grid, but there was no way of knowing your zoom level or the end size of an object as you were sculpting it. It was a fun tool to putter around with and it gave me a better understanding of how 3D modelling can work.
Hopefully in 12 years they made it more useful...
 
#24
While I don't use blender too much, I am sure that part of it has not changed. 3D programs like Cheetah 3D and Blender are geared more towards artists rather than engineers. There is a unit of measure, but it is completely arbitrary. A unit is a unit. you can use that unit as anything. As long as you keep that unit the same on your project, you will be good.

It is exporting that data to make plans that things get interesting. If exporting as a vector/poly line to a DXF or similar, you can continue to use your unit as the scale. If exporting UV data as a raster as I do, you have to export a reference object along with your plans to use as a scale key in whatever 2D program you chose to finish the plans.

But yes, Blender has been through a plethora of changes over the years. I just wish they would make a 3DS MAX like interface mod. :cautious:
 

Monte.C

Legendary member
#25
If I can flatten the surfaces and export as vector to Cad then we're home free. In fact I can scale anything in Cad any way I like. In Blender I can decide the unit is an inch. And work in 10ths, which I find convenient for these models anyway. (I have a little machinist's scale.) Thanks guys for your valuable advice. Now I'll NEVER leave the house. !!!
 

jfaleo1

Junior Member
#26
Sweet, thanks brother!(y)

I saved it right to my desktop and that is where it will stay until I get back to this. I am unsure what to do next after the F-15 Active build. I planned on doing the Starscream build next, but maybe I will switch to this to take a break from the skin builds for a few.
If you need other references I have them but sharing over open forum may not be OK right now. Let me know if you need anything though.
 
#28
Made some good progress today...
RC12U01.gif RC12U02.jpg
I am pretty much done with the foam skin, now it's on to the structure. There are a lot of details I need to work out, but I think I am going to address some of those issues during the build. The biggest of those being the elevator. Two separate elevators that pivot on different axes mounted high on a T tail. If it was a bit larger, I would just use the same approach to took on the Phantom build, but I would rather not destroy the looks and AUW with dual pushrods running from the cabin.

The easy thing to do is make a single elevator and straight. I don't want to do that just yet though. I have an idea, but I have to test it first.

Anyway, time to get serious on this. I am off to make another pot of joe.
 
#29
This is what I am thinking at the moment.:unsure:
RC12U03.jpg RC12U04.jpg RC12U05.jpg RC12U06.jpg
That front section of the vertstab is 3 foam thick. A "U" shaped piece wrapped around a center piece. The servo will embed into the three layers. The servo wire will run in a gap between the front of the "U" and the center piece. The pushrod will be a interesting bend, but doable. I also may have to slot out the servo control horn depending on how ridged the control assembly is.

It is worth a shot anyway. I have a ton of smaller scrap foam I can prototype this assembly with.
 

Tench745

Elite member
#30
This is what I am thinking at the moment.:unsure:
View attachment 166433 View attachment 166434 View attachment 166435 View attachment 166436
That front section of the vertstab is 3 foam thick. A "U" shaped piece wrapped around a center piece. The servo will embed into the three layers. The servo wire will run in a gap between the front of the "U" and the center piece. The pushrod will be a interesting bend, but doable. I also may have to slot out the servo control horn depending on how ridged the control assembly is.

It is worth a shot anyway. I have a ton of smaller scrap foam I can prototype this assembly with.
That seems a bit over-complicated. Why not just tie the two elevator halves directly together with a u-shaped piece of wire glued into the elevator halves? If you need to you can add a bit of tubing for it to pass through the v-stab. Attached is a very quick mockup to illustrate; adjust lengths and widths as necessary.

IMG_1305[1].JPG
 

Wildthing

Legendary member
#31
This is what I am thinking at the moment.:unsure:
View attachment 166433 View attachment 166434 View attachment 166435 View attachment 166436
That front section of the vertstab is 3 foam thick. A "U" shaped piece wrapped around a center piece. The servo will embed into the three layers. The servo wire will run in a gap between the front of the "U" and the center piece. The pushrod will be a interesting bend, but doable. I also may have to slot out the servo control horn depending on how ridged the control assembly is.

It is worth a shot anyway. I have a ton of smaller scrap foam I can prototype this assembly with.
It's cool looking but I think the rod is going to flex and twist on the servo arm and the left elevator won't do much.
 
#32
That seems a bit over-complicated. Why not just tie the two elevator halves directly together with a u-shaped piece of wire glued into the elevator halves? If you need to you can add a bit of tubing for it to pass through the v-stab. Attached is a very quick mockup to illustrate; adjust lengths and widths as necessary.
That would definitely work if I wanted to keep the split elevator and make the pivot straight. That might be the best option, it would certainly be the easiest.

It's cool looking but I think the rod is going to flex and twist on the servo arm and the left elevator won't do much.
With the rod I use there will be no flex :p, but yeah it will twist. I saw that this morning when I looked at it with fresh eyes. I could put a flat rigid piece between the foam layers attached to the middle of the passthrough part of the rod, but it would have to be something other than just foam in there. It would probably bind under load otherwise.

The straight pivot elevator would make life so much easier, but it looks so wrong.:cautious:
I will think of something.

Working on bulkheads and formers. I might even get to the build itself tonight.
C12.jpg RC12.jpg
The C12 vs RC12. Not much different other than the lack of parts and the slightly different vertical stab. The painted skins would be a lot different though.
 
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jfaleo1

Junior Member
#33
This is what I am thinking at the moment.:unsure:
View attachment 166433 View attachment 166434 View attachment 166435 View attachment 166436
That front section of the vertstab is 3 foam thick. A "U" shaped piece wrapped around a center piece. The servo will embed into the three layers. The servo wire will run in a gap between the front of the "U" and the center piece. The pushrod will be a interesting bend, but doable. I also may have to slot out the servo control horn depending on how ridged the control assembly is.

It is worth a shot anyway. I have a ton of smaller scrap foam I can prototype this assembly with.
I just was thinking two servos 5 g or less.
 
#34
Two servos total? Or two servos for the elevator?
I thought about a single servo for the ailerons, but the compound dihedral on the mains puts the kibosh on that. Without using a universal joint that is.

As far as the 5gr servos, I have had nothing but bad luck with those. It would be easy enough to adapt those in the 9gr slots though.

I got all of my electronics together and printed up the motor mounts.
RC12U17.jpg
I am using EMAX RS2205 Red Bottoms with 5x5x3 Lumenier Butter Cutters for the props. (just what I had laying about) I hope I do not rip the wings off, but it should be fine on 3s.

Laying out the final details before I make prints.
 

jfaleo1

Junior Member
#35
Two servos total? Or two servos for the elevator?
I thought about a single servo for the ailerons, but the compound dihedral on the mains puts the kibosh on that. Without using a universal joint that is.

As far as the 5gr servos, I have had nothing but bad luck with those. It would be easy enough to adapt those in the 9gr slots though.

I got all of my electronics together and printed up the motor mounts.
View attachment 166533
I am using EMAX RS2205 Red Bottoms with 5x5x3 Lumenier Butter Cutters for the props. (just what I had laying about) I hope I do not rip the wings off, but it should be fine on 3s.

Laying out the final details before I make prints.
One servo per elevator. 5 total. 2 elev, 2?ail, 1 rud.
 
#36
I think I am done...:unsure:
RC12U18.gif

Basic assembly and serviceability test animation.
Prints will have to wait until tomorrow.:sleep:

One servo per elevator. 5 total. 2 elev, 2?ail, 1 rud.
I do not have a rudder, but one could easily be added. You would definitely want to use the smaller 5gr servos with that many though. For the prototype I am planning on 3 9grs. Yaw will be diff thrust.

This would be a good candidate for a larger detailed build. Maybe 1:10-1:12 or so. Retracts and such.
 

jfaleo1

Junior Member
#37
I think I am done...:unsure:
View attachment 166566
Basic assembly and serviceability test animation.
Prints will have to wait until tomorrow.:sleep:


I do not have a rudder, but one could easily be added. You would definitely want to use the smaller 5gr servos with that many though. For the prototype I am planning on 3 9grs. Yaw will be diff thrust.

This would be a good candidate for a larger detailed build. Maybe 1:10-1:12 or so. Retracts and such.
Fantastic!
 

Daniel Liutan

Well-known member
#38
I think I am done...:unsure:
View attachment 166566
Basic assembly and serviceability test animation.
Prints will have to wait until tomorrow.:sleep:


I do not have a rudder, but one could easily be added. You would definitely want to use the smaller 5gr servos with that many though. For the prototype I am planning on 3 9grs. Yaw will be diff thrust.

This would be a good candidate for a larger detailed build. Maybe 1:10-1:12 or so. Retracts and such.
Beautiful!!!

Looking for building one soon.
 
#39
I have a rough set of prints started...
RC12U19.jpg
That is everything I need to build the Fuselage and Vertical Stabilizer.
RC12U20.jpg
I did not put a lot of tabs on the parts, just the ones where alignment was critical. Once I am happy with the design I will add those kind of details.

I am off to make a pot of joe. I plan to get this fuse done tonight.:D
 
#40
I have never have had such a bad time scratch building anything as I had on this airframe. :oops::cry::p
RC12U20.jpg RC12U21.jpg RC12U22.jpg RC12U23.jpg
(FYI both the F15 and the RC12 are 1:20 scale)

The first issue was I had my blade wander twice during cutting. One part was salvageable, the other was not. Of course the one that I could not save was the largest piece of the bunch. (the rear fuselage wrap) :rolleyes:

The second issue was I thought I would be slick and try a new way to wrap the skins around the formers. It does not change the model or design, it just changed the way I layout and cut the skins and saves an extra seam.:unsure:

NOPE!

It worked. Kind of. It just took too much wrestling and force to get the seam right. This thing is full of wrinkles from the pressure of my hands trying to hold things in place while curing. It was worth a try and it does work well on small parts, but it is not worth the frustration.

Minus those two major issues, everything fit pretty well. I went ahead and hand sketched some windows on the canopy so it did not look so plain. Even if someone was to build this without the painted skins, window decals will be a must. It just does not look right without them.

I was half tempted to just abandon what I have and start over with the old wraps, but I think I am just going to continue with this and see how it does in the air. She won't be pretty, but it only a test build anyway. Wings will be tomorrow.
 
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