Edgewater FRIA application status

[Boxo53]

I hope you are correct. But so far you have provided little to no evidence to backup your statements. You have repeatedly told us that we were wrong. I'm sorry, I'm just not going to just take your word for it, I need some kind of evidence.

I will ask again. Please provide a link that says "The FAA was abundantly clear (as surprising as that may be) that FRIAs were for fields used ORGANIZATIONS. Not individuals." And another that says the AMA insurance will still be good after Sept16

OK, first, Im NOT taking sides here, but my old flight instructor habits urge me to bring factual information to FAA related discussions whenever possible. So, here is one first hand data point.

I belong to a small RC club in Pacific Northwest. I’d prefer to not give the exact member count, but a 6 pack covers the post flight ‘discussion sessions’ quite adequately. We are independent, that is, Not affiliated with the AMA or any other organizations . We do, just for the record, have liability insurance that is primary. AMA insurance is ‘secondary’ . If that is not clear, research it, not gonna get side tracked.

I volunteered to take on the FRIA situation last winter and after researching the options available at that time, I paid for a FTCA membership and worked with them to submit a FRIA application to the FAA. It was approved on the first pass about a month ago.
Done Deal.

So, to my point: Based on my experience, the FAA is not limiting FRIA approvals to sanctioned clubs or other large organizations.

Moving to a bit of informed speculation, approval seems to be more influenced by the proposed FRIA boundaries.

Ours is most of a section of farmland ( crop fields) where we lease a corner for the runway and parking, etc. Overflight and careful retrieval is included in the lease. The area I submitted for the FRIA boundaries has no roads, buildings, or other ‘ human activities’ areas.
Credible reports from other clubs that had rejected applications seem to all have overfly conflicts with parking lots, roads, buildings, etc.

The takeaway is that it seems feasible for a small group (club) to have an approved FRIA in a suitable open space, without any affiliations other than a CBO to process the application. As most know, FTCA requires no membership other than the one person submitting the application.

 

[ScottSteward]

I wish YOU would just go away.

It's interesting. I fell in love with Flite Test almost on day one of my getting in the hobby. So many memories of wearing out their videos and building, crashing and repeating their designs. Even today, I have an FT Duster speed build kit sitting in my garage waiting to he built (and I am still going to).

But right now? I am very disgruntled and disillusioned. To a point I can't even begin to explain. And I realize I have been a bit of a jerk here because of my disappointment.

So, you know what I did? I sent Josh an apology message. He saw it (I can tell from the profile light up on messenger). He didn't even respond.

So, at this point, I don't even know what to think about FT. I hate to throw all the memories away. But maybe that's just it. Maybe they aren't tue same Flite Test anymore. Too much success, maybe?

In any case, I'll apologize to you as well. If that's not good enough, maybe I will...."go away".

 

[ScottSteward]

Reading comprehension problem? I said, "anything the AMA did was for their own benefit." You added "only benefits the AMA". I stand by my opinion. The AMA sold the hobby out. When they did that, they simply hoped the FAA would kill them last. It does not work that way.

Well....you're wrong.

 

[ScottSteward]

OK, first, Im NOT taking sides here, but my old flight instructor habits urge me to bring factual information to FAA related discussions whenever possible. So, here is one first hand data point.

I belong to a small RC club in Pacific Northwest. I’d prefer to not give the exact member count, but a 6 pack covers the post flight ‘discussion sessions’ quite adequately. We are independent, that is, Not affiliated with the AMA or any other organizations . We do, just for the record, have liability insurance that is primary. AMA insurance is ‘secondary’ . If that is not clear, research it, not gonna get side tracked.

I volunteered to take on the FRIA situation last winter and after researching the options available at that time, I paid for a FTCA membership and worked with them to submit a FRIA application to the FAA. It was approved on the first pass about a month ago.
Done Deal.

So, to my point: Based on my experience, the FAA is not limiting FRIA approvals to sanctioned clubs or other large organizations.

Moving to a bit of informed speculation, approval seems to be more influenced by the proposed FRIA boundaries.

Ours is most of a section of farmland ( crop fields) where we lease a corner for the runway and parking, etc. Overflight and careful retrieval is included in the lease. The area I submitted for the FRIA boundaries has no roads, buildings, or other ‘ human activities’ areas.
Credible reports from other clubs that had rejected applications seem to all have overfly conflicts with parking lots, roads, buildings, etc.

The takeaway is that it seems feasible for a small group (club) to have an approved FRIA in a suitable open space, without any affiliations other than a CBO to process the application. As most know, FTCA requires no membership other than the one person submitting the application.

Great post. I think FRIAs in general are a case by case situation. In your case, at least it is a group of people. Maybe not large, but enough to sit as a legitimate CBO club.

 

[ScottSteward]

Until then, I will ask again. Please provide a link that says "The FAA was abundantly clear (as surprising as that may be) that FRIAs were for fields used ORGANIZATIONS. Not individuals." And another that says the AMA insurance will still be good after Sept 16.

Directly from FAA dot gov....

 

[CappyAmeric]

Well....you're wrong.

LOL. I recommend lay off the caffeine.

 

[ScottSteward]

LOL. I recommend lay off the caffeine.

I'm deep enough involved in the AMA to know you're wrong. The AMA did more to fight this whole R.I.D. mess than any other organization or group of people out there.

Oh, and for the record - in case anyone is wondering, a certain friend of mine at the AMA office told me that Flite Test reached out to the AMA for help in figuring out the FRIA mess. And lo and behold, Edgewater is approved. Hmmmmmmmmm.....maybe AMA really DOES know what they are doing and really IS out to help everyone involved.

The big question is....will Flite Test actually thank and credit AMA for the help or will they let everyone think it was all their own efforts?

 

[CappyAmeric]

I'm deep enough involved in the AMA…

Yes, we figured that out early on.

 

[ScottSteward]

Yes, we figured that out early on.

I never denied it and I'll gladly own it.

 

[LitterBug]

Great post. I think FRIAs in general are a case by case situation. In your case, at least it is a group of people. Maybe not large, but enough to sit as a legitimate CBO club.

A FRIA does not have to be a "group of people" by the definition on the FAA Web site. It could be Joe who lives out in the middle of nowhere who doesn't want to drive an hour or more to fly when he could fly on his own property without hurting anyone else. He will need to apply through a CBO. This is where the AMA fails the hobby. Fortunately we have the FTCA and FPVFC to fight for Joe.

I am fortunate to have an AMA field 5 minutes from home. This is NOT the case for most people.

 

[ScottSteward]

A FRIA does not have to be a "group of people" by the definition on the FAA Web site. It could be Joe who lives out in the middle of nowhere who doesn't want to drive an hour or more to fly when he could fly on his own property without hurting anyone else. He will need to apply through a CBO. This is where the AMA fails the hobby. Fortunately we have the FTCA and FPVFC to fight for Joe.

I am fortunate to have an AMA field 5 minutes from home. This is NOT the case for most people.

View attachment 240019

Did you miss this part? Look under "Who Can Apply For a FRIA". CBOs only. Very plainly. Look at this attachment from the same page you just sited.

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

Did you miss this part? Look under "Who Can Apply For a FRIA". CBOs only. Very plainly. Look at this attachment from the same page you just sited.

Scott, this is hard to say without sounding like one myself but you are coming across as a complete dill hole and engaging in special pleading. Yes, a CBO or educational org must apply but show me the minimum number an FRIA must serve. Is it 10? 6? 2? If you want to kiss the AMA's ring there are probably better places to do so.

 

[ScottSteward]

Scott, this is hard to say without sounding like one myself but you are coming across as a complete dill hole and engaging in special pleading. Yes, a CBO or educational org must apply but show me the minimum number an FRIA must serve. Is it 10? 6? 2? If you want to kiss the AMA's ring there are probably better places to do so.

That's a shame. Flite Test wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Josh's AMA roots. What's more, a bit of inside info - Edgewater's FRIA approval came after Flite Test reached out to AMA for help. Just sayin.....

 

[ScottSteward]

Hey @ScottSteward, Bruce has a question for you. If all the FAA does is postpone the enforcement of RID, when you fly after Sept 16, outside of a FRIA, with out RID & over 250g. You will not be following the regulation. Just because the FAA is not enforcing a regulation, does not change the regulation.

The question; will your AMA insurance be any good? Or with the insurance company try to weasel out of a labiality claim, saying you were not following the regulation?

FACT: If you get drunk, run a red light and kill a family coming home from church - what does your car insurance do?

PAYS FOR THE CLAIM. Granted, you will probably get dropped. But they still pay it. So, Bruce's point about "not paying because you were non compliant" is horse manure.

I don't know why anyone listens to that guy but anyone who does, deserves the heartburn they get from the toxic garbage they are digesting.

 

[CappyAmeric]

That's a shame. Flite Test wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Josh's AMA roots. What's more, a bit of inside info - Edgewater's FRIA approval came after Flite Test reached out to AMA for help. Just sayin.....

LOL. AMA would not exist if it weren't for individuals looking for an organization to support their hobby. The fact is, the people who are attracted to Flite Test are just airplane people. We are spread out all over the place, the vast majority not anywhere near a AMA field, or if so not interested in "safety officers plus barbecue" - we just want 30 minutes of flying ever so often.

The FAA came hunting for the R/C hobby. They did it out of authoritarianism and a lot of ignorance. AMA acted like they were the only people that flew R/C so the bureaucratic FAA listened to the bureaucratic AMA which was 100% about protecting their flying fields. Problem is the vast majority of R/C hobbies don't fly at "flying fields". AMA saw that as a perfect opportunity - forced AMA membership for the entire hobby because only they would have FRIAs. They did not anticipate FPVFC or FTCA becoming CBOs.

The only reason for CBOs is to obtain FRIAs. The only reason for FRIAs is to avoid Remote ID. A perfect reason why AMA has not given any attention to Remote ID, except to make a point that if you join AMA you can fly at an AMA FRIA and you won't need Remote ID.

The dirty little secret about the lack of Remote ID modules is that few saw a business opportunity. They are unsure about how many hobbyists are even going to comply. That may change in the future, but personally I think it will take years. Peruse GetFPV.com, RaceDayQuads.com, PyroDrone.com, RotorRiot.com, or NewBeeDrone.com - not a word about Remote ID. There really is only Horizon Hobby which has Spektrum's SkyID (pre-order only). Now you have a second option for Remote ID modules, and it is available now - the Flite Test EZ ID. Flite Test has once again proven they are the only folks supporting the individual hobbyist. No need to join a club. No need to pass a test. Just foam board, hot glue, some electronics, and head to the local school yard. Slap on a FT EZ ID, and fly.

Josh Bixler is a "complier" - so naturally Flite Test has developed the ideal Remote ID module, the FT EZ ID. It is 10 grams, includes GPS pass-through, 3.3v to 8s voltage. Plug it into a receiver port for power and no FRIA is needed. Ever. If someone wants to comply with the FAA, they can still fly the same places they've always flown.

So, honestly, is that why you are so upset, out of the blue, with Flite Test?

 

[ScottSteward]

LOL. AMA would not exist if it weren't for individuals looking for an organization to support their hobby. The fact is, the people who are attracted to Flite Test are just airplane people. We are spread out all over the place, the vast majority not anywhere near a AMA field, or if so not interested in "safety officers plus barbecue" - we just want 30 minutes of flying ever so often.

The FAA came hunting for the R/C hobby. They did it out of authoritarianism and a lot of ignorance. AMA acted like they were the only people that flew R/C so the bureaucratic FAA listened to the bureaucratic AMA which was 100% about protecting their flying fields. Problem is the vast majority of R/C hobbies don't fly at "flying fields". AMA saw that as a perfect opportunity - forced AMA membership for the entire hobby because only they would have FRIAs. They did not anticipate FPVFC or FTCA becoming CBOs.

The only reason for CBOs is to obtain FRIAs. The only reason for FRIAs is to avoid Remote ID. A perfect reason why AMA has not given any attention to Remote ID, except to make a point that if you join AMA you can fly at an AMA FRIA and you won't need Remote ID.

The dirty little secret about the lack of Remote ID modules is that few saw a business opportunity. They are unsure about how many hobbyists are even going to comply. That may change in the future, but personally I think it will take years. Peruse GetFPV.com, RaceDayQuads.com, PyroDrone.com, RotorRiot.com, or NewBeeDrone.com - not a word about Remote ID. There really is only Horizon Hobby which has Spektrum's SkyID (pre-order only). Now you have a second option for Remote ID modules, and it is available now - the Flite Test EZ ID. Flite Test has once again proven they are the only folks supporting the individual hobbyist. No need to join a club. No need to pass a test. Just foam board, hot glue, some electronics, and head to the local school yard. Slap on a FT EZ ID, and fly.

Josh Bixler is a "complier" - so naturally Flite Test has developed the ideal Remote ID module, the FT EZ ID. It is 10 grams, includes GPS pass-through, 3.7v to 8s voltage. Plug it into a receiver port for power and no FRIA is needed. Ever. If someone wants to comply with the FAA, they can still fly the same places they've always flown.

So, honestly, is that why you are so upset, out of the blue, with Flite Test?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "No FRIA is needed ever".....AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! So now FT has you talking like their R.I.D. module is their saving grace....AHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!

Enjoy dumping your money on them. I'm going to enjoy the MULTIPLE AMA FRIA sites in my area. 🤣

 

[CappyAmeric]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "No FRIA is needed ever".....AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! So now FT has you talking like their R.I.D. module is their saving grace....AHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!

Enjoy dumping your money on them. I'm going to enjoy the MULTIPLE AMA FRIA sites in my area. 🤣

So I see I hit the mark. Thanks for confirmation of what we all suspected was going on with your rants.

 

[ScottSteward]

LOL. AMA would not exist if it weren't for individuals looking for an organization to support their hobby. The fact is, the people who are attracted to Flite Test are just airplane people. We are spread out all over the place, the vast majority not anywhere near a AMA field, or if so not interested in "safety officers plus barbecue" - we just want 30 minutes of flying ever so often.

The FAA came hunting for the R/C hobby. They did it out of authoritarianism and a lot of ignorance. AMA acted like they were the only people that flew R/C so the bureaucratic FAA listened to the bureaucratic AMA which was 100% about protecting their flying fields. Problem is the vast majority of R/C hobbies don't fly at "flying fields". AMA saw that as a perfect opportunity - forced AMA membership for the entire hobby because only they would have FRIAs. They did not anticipate FPVFC or FTCA becoming CBOs.

The only reason for CBOs is to obtain FRIAs. The only reason for FRIAs is to avoid Remote ID. A perfect reason why AMA has not given any attention to Remote ID, except to make a point that if you join AMA you can fly at an AMA FRIA and you won't need Remote ID.

The dirty little secret about the lack of Remote ID modules is that few saw a business opportunity. They are unsure about how many hobbyists are even going to comply. That may change in the future, but personally I think it will take years. Peruse GetFPV.com, RaceDayQuads.com, PyroDrone.com, RotorRiot.com, or NewBeeDrone.com - not a word about Remote ID. There really is only Horizon Hobby which has Spektrum's SkyID (pre-order only). Now you have a second option for Remote ID modules, and it is available now - the Flite Test EZ ID. Flite Test has once again proven they are the only folks supporting the individual hobbyist. No need to join a club. No need to pass a test. Just foam board, hot glue, some electronics, and head to the local school yard. Slap on a FT EZ ID, and fly.

Josh Bixler is a "complier" - so naturally Flite Test has developed the ideal Remote ID module, the FT EZ ID. It is 10 grams, includes GPS pass-through, 3.7v to 8s voltage. Plug it into a receiver port for power and no FRIA is needed. Ever. If someone wants to comply with the FAA, they can still fly the same places they've always flown.

So, honestly, is that why you are so upset, out of the blue, with Flite Test?

And to answer your question as to why I am "suddenly upset at Flite Test", it really boils down to their posturing with the AMA. They have created (or at least contributed to) a division in this hobby - which is something I never expected Josh to contribute to.

And it's a false narrative. Start reading back as far as you can. We are still flying as we have with 2 changes, 2! A 20 minute “not a test” TRUST and $5 Reg every 3 years. Study what might have been. In the mean time you can go fly the way you always have. You’re welcome. 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️🤨

AMA IN ACTION Advocating for Members - Welcome to the Academy of Model Aeronautics' Advocacy Blog. As the FAA looks to regulate the use of small unmanned aircraft systems (sUAS) and as Congress and state legislatures consider legislation with potenti

Blog of the Academy of Model Aeronautics government team. We represent our members at the local, state, and federal level (including the FAA) on legislative and regulatory issues that could potentially impact our longstanding hobby.

amablog.modelaircraft.org

 

[ScottSteward]

So I see I hit the mark. Thanks for confirmation of what we all suspected was going on with your rants.

The only "mark" you hit is confirmation for my suspicions.

First - FT plays the narrative that they hate the new regs. Then, they get everyone to submit their backyards for FRIAS by paying for a membership. Now that this has failed, they have you submitting to the reg they so adamantly opposed by offering a product they can SELL you - and now you think the R.I.D. module they are selling you is the relief FROM "having to have a FRIA".

Don't you see how they (and YOU) have flipped this?

And I'm sorry....but......WHOOOO....is "lining their pockets"???

 

[CappyAmeric]

It's interesting. I fell in love with Flite Test almost on day one of my getting in the hobby. So many memories of wearing out their videos and building, crashing and repeating their designs. Even today, I have an FT Duster speed build kit sitting in my garage waiting to he built (and I am still going to).

But right now? I am very disgruntled and disillusioned. To a point I can't even begin to explain. And I realize I have been a bit of a jerk here because of my disappointment.

So, you know what I did? I sent Josh an apology message. He saw it (I can tell from the profile light up on messenger). He didn't even respond.

So, at this point, I don't even know what to think about FT. I hate to throw all the memories away. But maybe that's just it. Maybe they aren't tue same Flite Test anymore. Too much success, maybe?

In any case, I'll apologize to you as well. If that's not good enough, maybe I will...."go away".

Not sure if you know this, but Flite Test leadership do not manage this forum, and rarely, if ever, are they here. If you want to send an apology to Josh, I suggest you do it directly.