Electric, Nitro, Diesel, Petrol, Balsa, Foam, plastic or Ply - Whats your likes and dislikes ?

[JennyC6]

I live in the UK and its easy enough to get hold of at present, but expensive. The last time I bought some, I had to order a minimum 4 gallons to get my order delivered. That cost me £64 GBP that's roughly $85 USD,

That's actually less than I'm paying on a per gallon basis, though I'm not having to order it in so I'm not dealing with the hazmat fees associated with doing so. If I did I'd have to order in a 4-gallon pallet as well; S&W Fuels would be my go-to if I had to do this because I'd be able to get two gallons of 15% aviation fuel, a gallon of 20% car fuel, and a gallon of 35% 1/2a fuel custom tailored to my own specification.

as for trying to get hold of nitromethane no chance.

Over here in the states the best way to get a hold of nitro is the local dragstrip. Given our petrolhead scene is so so so so so much larger than yours I can see why that might not be an option heh.

Methanol and 2 stroke or Castor are easy to get hold of and reasonably priced, making my own is an option

I wouldn't use gasoline-intended 2-stroke oils in a methanol blend. No guarantee itt'l stay in suspension properly. Castor is best, Klotz synthetic also good if you can get it.

but some engines will run on the 80:20 mix others wont.

That's just a matter of tuning the engine. They will all run on FAI. European engines should run on it just fine right out of the box since high-nitro fuels have never been popular over there, US and Japanese engines will need some adjustment to head shimming and glow plug heat range due to the US market being pretty much addicted to the stuff. The fussiest engines will be the 4-strokes(Their compression is difficult to adjust and they're all set up for nitro; Saitos notoriously love as much as 30-35%!) and the 1/2a stuff(Smaller you get the more nitro helps it stay running), but even these engines will run on FAI fuel.

Interestingly I have to make similar adjustments to the euro engines to get them to play nice with my 15% fuels; my Super Tiger GS45 ABC loves 15%. Tigers are notoriously fussy about high nitro fuels but all I had to do was add one shim and throw an OS 8 plug in it.

Petrol works out a lot cheaper to be honest, so that might be the way forward for me in the future. Plus it lasts longer ie flight times per tank of fuel. Its just the initial cost of buying a petrol engine versus a nitro.

Don't forget about the weight penalty of the second battery, the CDI unit. Or the cost of OS G5 glow plugs. Large part of why my cutoff is such a large engine; that's the absolute smallest I feel the weight penalties of using a gasser aren't outweighing the fuel savings.

Fuel economy itself...meh I mostly fly 4-stroke. I'm already getting ~20 minute flights most of the time. The two strokes I do fly are simply too small to carry all the added weight of a gasser without issue; one literally doesn't even have the room in the fuse for it as it's just a 20 size ship.

I do have one smol gasser in my collection though. It's a project engine. Forster 29. I've got an old Webra 28 carb I want to put on it, and I need to track down a coil and condenser; it has good points, a good plug, and it does run quite well if I stab a glow plug in it. Planning on feeding this one FAI fuel and mounting it in something like a Flybaby or Spacewalker if I can find one of suitable size. If I thought the carb I chose could meter gasoline correctly I might try it, but that engine is so old it calls for 5 parts gasoline to 1 part SAE30w motor oil!

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I have heard you can't use std motor grade 2 stroke oil, it needs to be a high quality synthetic. I think thats why they mix in 10% Castor with the synthetic 2 stroke to help with the suspension issues.
Klotz does ring a bell from the period when I was looking into making my own fuel, but could only source from the US at the time and it wasn't cost effective.
Recently I ended up taking an OS 46 LA out of my WOT trainer and converted it to electric, it can climb vertical from take off and if I fly conservatively I can easily get a 10 to 12 minute flight from a 4S 5000mAh battery. No oiley mess and my nice recently recovered plane stays clean too, I just miss the sound and the smell with the mods and battery it now weighs 2kg.

 

[JennyC6]

I have heard you can't use std motor grade 2 stroke oil, it needs to be a high quality synthetic. I think thats why they mix in 10% Castor with the synthetic 2 stroke to help with the suspension issues.
Klotz does ring a bell from the period when I was looking into making my own fuel, but could only source from the US at the time and it wasn't cost effective.
Recently I ended up taking an OS 46 LA out of my WOT trainer and converted it to electric, it can climb vertical from take off and if I fly conservatively I can easily get a 10 to 12 minute flight from a 4S 5000mAh battery. No oiley mess and my nice recently recovered plane stays clean too, I just miss the sound and the smell with the mods and battery it now weighs 2kg.

throw a 52 4-cylce on the nose and you'll be good for 30-40 minutes in flight. That's what happened when I swapped the 46AX on my NexSTAR for a Magnum 52RFS; literally went from 10m flights to 30m flights.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I would have neck ache if I flew for that lenth of time every flight lol

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

These days I fly a lot of electric and usually take 5 or 6 planes, I start with three 10 minute flights then get the batteries on charge and have a coffee and chat with the other guys. Then swap planes and fly another three or four flights, depending on the weather I can get 20 to 30 minute flights from some of my powered gliders but thats the longest I like to fly these days.
I usually take around 25 assorted lipo batteries of varying sizes and capacity and with charging at the site I can have a full days flying.

 

[speedbirdted]

I'm also not sure why the stuff is so bloody expensive in so many areas. It's only 25 bucks a gallon where I am, and that gallon lasts me a couple months besides. I've got my changeover set to 60-size for 2c and 90-size for 4c, vis-a-vis gasoline or glow. I genuinely don't understand why my LHS can turn a profit selling the stuff for that while other shops won't let a gallon go for less than 40. What gives?

Hell my club used to get stuff directly from Ritch's Brew through the Toledo show. Was pretty darn cheap, I think last year the prices were about 12 a gallon. Every year the membership would have a bulk fuel order averaging about 60 gallons distributed to about 30 guys. Though there's one guy who buys 20 gallons a year. I bought 4 this year in April and only have about half a gallon now so I think I'm gonna have to up it to 5 next year.

I'm worried next year the prices will go to hell. With Toledo gone I'm not sure what the distribution strategy is gonna look like...

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

Its not the fuel you should worry about its the cost of balsa its set to rise by 110% in the next few months. There is a global shortage I believe, plus the Chinese have been buying it bulk presumably to stock pile ?

 

[JennyC6]

I would have neck ache if I flew for that lenth of time every flight lol

bwahahaha. Put some FPV on it and that goes away~. Also a fun challenge to engineer a chair for the camera that minimizes the jello it would otherwise have on a glow bird.

My 20-size Bridi Warlord is FPV'd and I love it. Used some DTFB to build the camera a recliner and that nips jello sufficiently.

These days I fly a lot of electric and usually take 5 or 6 planes, I start with three 10 minute flights then get the batteries on charge and have a coffee and chat with the other guys. Then swap planes and fly another three or four flights, depending on the weather I can get 20 to 30 minute flights from some of my powered gliders but thats the longest I like to fly these days.
I usually take around 25 assorted lipo batteries of varying sizes and capacity and with charging at the site I can have a full days flying.

When I go to the field I usually get my chosen planes fuelled up and then sit back, wait. Let the peeps like you burn out your first charge, head to the charge stand to shoot the . While ya'll are charging I'll just go out there and chain flights back to back to back until I start hearing chargers ding.

It works exceptionally well too. We all get plenty of flight time we're never worrying about midairs.

Hell my club used to get stuff directly from Ritch's Brew through the Toledo show. Was pretty darn cheap, I think last year the prices were about 12 a gallon. Every year the membership would have a bulk fuel order averaging about 60 gallons distributed to about 30 guys. Though there's one guy who buys 20 gallons a year. I bought 4 this year in April and only have about half a gallon now so I think I'm gonna have to up it to 5 next year.

I'm worried next year the prices will go to hell. With Toledo gone I'm not sure what the distribution strategy is gonna look like...

That is a stupid good deal tbh. I usually buy up Omega 15%; if I was in on a deal like that I'd probably have 'em get me 3 gallons of 15%N 9% castor 9% synthetic to roughly equate to Omega 15. And maybe a gallon of 20%N 3% Castor 9% Synthetic for my cars. That would pretty much sum up my fuel supply for the flying season.

 

[JennyC6]

Its not the fuel you should worry about its the cost of balsa its set to rise by 110% in the next few months. There is a global shortage I believe, plus the Chinese have been buying it bulk presumably to stock pile ?

I've found enough fun in buying used planes that I'm not really in the market for new airframes. That, and the sorta stuff I want to fly isn't 'in' right now; classic pattern ships and lo-wing civvy ships are my jam at the mo.

My LHS has a NitroPlanes Long EZ-46 on consignment I'm trying to get a hold of. Got no less than 5 possible engines for it.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I like Warbirds, Gliders and vintage planes.
As I develop my skills and eventually buy more warbirds I will re visit fuel engines for those. The same with the old vintage style planes they deserve nitro engines. However, my gliders and all my Flite test models are electric and great fun plus I dont regret the WOT conversion much better now its electric. But thats just my opinion

 

[Bricks]

I do not understand why no one has copied the electronic CDI box used on the Evolution 10cc engine it`s about half the size and weight of the regular CD box. used for the bigger gas motors.
Depending on how much room I have I will only use one battery for ignition and receiver with an Opto switch so weight wise not much of a penalty, for 40 size planes. And being pumped carbs I can run my fuel tank anywhere I have room and a smaller one if I want.

 

[JennyC6]

I do not understand why no one has copied the electronic CDI box used on the Evolution 10cc engine it`s about half the size and weight of the regular CD box. used for the bigger gas motors.
Depending on how much room I have I will only use one battery for ignition and receiver with an Opto switch so weight wise not much of a penalty, for 40 size planes. And being pumped carbs I can run my fuel tank anywhere I have room and a smaller one if I want.

Reliability, I imagine. The CDI unit is 85% of the reliability of a CDI gasser and I have heard as many people swear by Evo 10cc engines as I've heard swear at them. That, and OS has a glow plug that ignites gasoline just fine; if you're determined to run gasoline in smaller ships put an OS G5 glow plug in and hope the carb will meter the stuff right. Tons of airflow, a 5:1 oil mix(Glow engines lack the roller bearings necessary for typical gasser oil ratios), and you're flying gasoline on as small as a 0.10.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I have seen some reviews on the G5 glow plug and in the short term it will work fine but over time it will be detrimental to your engine, so if your going to use one make sure its an old expendable engine.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

There are conversions kits which are more effective and there are you tube videos of people modifying/converting engines themselves I dont know what longevity they get from those engines once converted.

 

[JennyC6]

Those conversion kits just add CDI to a smol engine. And you'll burn a glow mill up real damn quick if you don't mix the oil in nice and gloopy. Or have it in a cowl, since gasoline burns so much hotter to begin with.

 

[Bricks]

Reliability, I imagine. The CDI unit is 85% of the reliability of a CDI gasser and I have heard as many people swear by Evo 10cc engines as I've heard swear at them. That, and OS has a glow plug that ignites gasoline just fine; if you're determined to run gasoline in smaller ships put an OS G5 glow plug in and hope the carb will meter the stuff right. Tons of airflow, a 5:1 oil mix(Glow engines lack the roller bearings necessary for typical gasser oil ratios), and you're flying gasoline on as small as a 0.10.[/QUOTE

]
The early Evolution 10cc CDI was a non pumped carb and those were finicky to set up IF you set it up like a Nitro with the fuel tank set at the mid line of the carburetor they ran good, when they changed to the pumped carburetor cured all problems with engine. Since Evolution quit making them they are selling for as much if not more then when they were new on Ebay, there is one heck of a market for these engines as the NGH GT9 Pro does not have near the power as the 10cc Evolution, NGH is finally getting them to run better thou as they have changed up the carb on them.

 

[Bricks]

Those conversion kits just add CDI to a smol engine. And you'll burn a glow mill up real damn quick if you don't mix the oil in nice and gloopy. Or have it in a cowl, since gasoline burns so much hotter to begin with.

This not really true there are many 2 and 4 stroke engines converted over and have many hours on them running just fine on gasoline with CDI ignition.. Many are running 20-1 or less which is still a heck of a lot less cleaning then castor.

A ton of information in this thread converting Nitro to gas it`s been done many times with very good success. It starts off with different recommendations then gets more into the gas side of the conversions. This is just one of many threads about converting Glow to gas.

seriously considering converting an os-ft120-II to gas. looking for recommendations. - RC Groups

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

Following the post earlier from JennyC6, I looked up Saito FA 50 engines. Your looking around the £280 GBP range for one to fit a 30 plane ? Thats approx $374 USD. I can buy an electric motor to give me an equivelent wattage in power for £50. I know there is no realism, authentic noise or smell from an electric motor. But if your on a tight budget or a youngster just starting off in the hobby thats way out of therer price range.
All this talk of real engines I was almost tempted to buy one myself, untill I saw the price. I am pretty sure petrol engines are even more expensive, I didnt look. Maybe this is why nitro engines started to fall out of favour and electric flights become so popular ? Its sad really they have probably priced themselves out of the market for a lot of people. The second hand nitro market is still doing well in the UK, probably because its an affordable means of owning a fuel based engine.

 

[JennyC6]

Following the post earlier from JennyC6, I looked up Saito FA 50 engines. Your looking around the £280 GBP range for one to fit a 30 plane ? Thats approx $374 USD. I can buy an electric motor to give me an equivelent wattage in power for £50. I know there is no realism, authentic noise or smell from an electric motor. But if your on a tight budget or a youngster just starting off in the hobby thats way out of therer price range.
All this talk of real engines I was almost tempted to buy one myself, untill I saw the price. I am pretty sure petrol engines are even more expensive, I didnt look.

I have never once in my entire time as a model aviator bought an airplane engine brand new. Used engines are great and it's how we get our engines, especially since there's such a small selection of new ones to choose from in the first place.

I could name maybe four brand new current production aircraft engines I would buy if money were no object. Five, possibly, if it's still in production. Extend it to surface applications and at most we only get 10.

Another point on it...I've got nitro aircraft that cost me less to get flying than a comparable electric foamy would have cost. My Speedyboi 20 is, all up, about $125-$150($45 for the airframe, $20 for the engine, $40 for the receiver, $30 for the battery, $30 for the VTx/Camera, and another $30 or so for the FC that gives OSD). And it lets me do pretty much any aerobatic stunt you could ever want to do with a non-3D aircraft! My Hobbico TwinStar with two OS 25FXs that have a grand total of five tanks through them? $170 or so($100 for the RxR aircraft, $40 for a receiver since I'm a masochist and fly Futaba, and $30 for the battery to power it; engines were already fitted when I got it). My Hangar 9 Valiant 10CC and my SIG 4*20 were both totally gratis even, and I've got a couple engines in my collection that were also totally free.

Point is, fuel planes don't have to be expensive and electric planes aren't always cheap. It really only feels like fuel = expensive electric = cheap if you only ever look at brand new stuff.

Hell even my Futaba 10J wasn't brand new.

Maybe this is why nitro engines started to fall out of favour and electric flights become so popular ?

They fell out of favor because people want the easy way through life. People don't want to learn how to adjust a carb, or read a glow plug, or adjust tappets. They just want to throw a battery in and let it go. And to an extent I can sympathize, but there's just that special something that you feel when an airplane you spent ages working on, an engine you revived from the junk bin, all comes together and flies like it's on autopilot that just isn't captured by throwing a 3s2200 at the 92nd EFlite Turbo Timber to show up in the flight line that day.

I think that's why I have so daggum much fun with Speedyboi 20. It lets me pull off pretty much any aerobatic maneuver this side of 3D and it does so because I put the sweat equity into restoring it. I didn't just take it out of a

As an aside it's also one of the things I love about Flite Test. FT is trying to inspire people to reclaim a little of that with every plane they release just about. You get an FT Speedbuild Kit you get some lasercut foamboard, a few trappings, and....that's it. It's up to you to make it fly. And I think that's why people like flying them so much.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I have never once in my entire time as a model aviator bought an airplane engine brand new. Used engines are great and it's how we get our engines, especially since there's such a small selection of new ones to choose from in the first place.

I could name maybe four brand new current production aircraft engines I would buy if money were no object. Five, possibly, if it's still in production. Extend it to surface applications and at most we only get 10.

Another point on it...I've got nitro aircraft that cost me less to get flying than a comparable electric foamy would have cost. My Speedyboi 20 is, all up, about $125-$150($45 for the airframe, $20 for the engine, $40 for the receiver, $30 for the battery, $30 for the VTx/Camera, and another $30 or so for the FC that gives OSD). And it lets me do pretty much any aerobatic stunt you could ever want to do with a non-3D aircraft! My Hobbico TwinStar with two OS 25FXs that have a grand total of five tanks through them? $170 or so($100 for the RxR aircraft, $40 for a receiver since I'm a masochist and fly Futaba, and $30 for the battery to power it; engines were already fitted when I got it). My Hangar 9 Valiant 10CC and my SIG 4*20 were both totally gratis even, and I've got a couple engines in my collection that were also totally free.

Point is, fuel planes don't have to be expensive and electric planes aren't always cheap. It really only feels like fuel = expensive electric = cheap if you only ever look at brand new stuff.

Hell even my Futaba 10J wasn't brand new.



They fell out of favor because people want the easy way through life. People don't want to learn how to adjust a carb, or read a glow plug, or adjust tappets. They just want to throw a battery in and let it go. And to an extent I can sympathize, but there's just that special something that you feel when an airplane you spent ages working on, an engine you revived from the junk bin, all comes together and flies like it's on autopilot that just isn't captured by throwing a 3s2200 at the 92nd EFlite Turbo Timber to show up in the flight line that day.

I think that's why I have so daggum much fun with Speedyboi 20. It lets me pull off pretty much any aerobatic maneuver this side of 3D and it does so because I put the sweat equity into restoring it. I didn't just take it out of a

As an aside it's also one of the things I love about Flite Test. FT is trying to inspire people to reclaim a little of that with every plane they release just about. You get an FT Speedbuild Kit you get some lasercut foamboard, a few trappings, and....that's it. It's up to you to make it fly. And I think that's why people like flying them so much.

Point taken, to be honest I bought my last WOT trainer for £50 sercond hand with 4 Futaba servos, an OS 46 engine and a 6 volt flight battery installed, I drove 200 miles to pick it up. I took the engine out stripped of the covering off repaired it where necessary, converted it to electric, recovered it from scratch and replaced the servos with new metal gear.
It was very satisfying when it flew .
I also scratch build all of my Flite Test planes, never bought a kit yet. Again, as with the WOT they give me emmence satisfaction both in the building and flying of them.
I was a process engineer so can appreciate the operation of a fine tuned engine thats been lovingly restored, but I also appreciate the simplicity of electric planes and the convenience. I can fly at 6am in the morning when I am on my way home from a night shift, without disturbing people still in bed. I can fit 6 or 7 small flight test test planes in the back of my Honda civic hatch back and with a selection of batteries fly all of them on the same day.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I admire your dedication to restoring older second hand planes and if I had the space available would probably do the same, sadly I am limited at the present time. Sadly good second hand engines are like rocking horse very rare, so I avoid buying off ebay as I cant test before I buy. Fellow members at my flying club dont let them go either, so its only when someone sadly passes away that planes and engines become available.
Right its time to head home shortly, my 12 hour shift is nearly over its soon going to be time for bed.