The-One-Who-Never-Crashes
TOWN-C Aviation
Besides, HobbyKing always tells you what the weight of your product is, and these days, boy is that important!
FAA Drone Registration goes live
- Thread starter PHugger
- Start date
Besides, HobbyKing always tells you what the weight of your product is, and these days, boy is that important!
The-One-Who-Never-Crashes
TOWN-C Aviation
I hope no one does! Even America shouldn't follow suit (meaning us, modelers, not registering).
I don't know if I particularly blame anyone. I think the biggest problem is lack of education. By and large most of the problems are caused by people who simply don't know any better. People buy them and fly them everywhere without a single consideration of safety or others.
As such, I think a really good first step would be ensuring people got that education. Certainly, there are the "I know what I am doing" crowd that know what they are doing is wrong/illegal and don't care but I like to think they are a small percentage.
As such, I think a really good first step would be ensuring people got that education. Certainly, there are the "I know what I am doing" crowd that know what they are doing is wrong/illegal and don't care but I like to think they are a small percentage.
BobK
Banned
I guess I don't see what point you are trying to make or why you would defend this guy..the real point isn't if it was expensive or his friends or he was under the influence, the fact is it was stupid and drew a huge amount of negativity to this hobby and that is the last thing we needed. My point is the few people that make those bad choices are ruining it for the rest of us and that brings me back to the HK/FT comments, the fact that things have become cheaper has opened the door for our hobby to be misused by people that don't respect the certain level common sense needed to be in this hobby.
I obviously wasted my time by commenting my thoughts here, the point I was trying to make isn't being taken seriously.
I will let you guys argue between yourselves.
-Bob
BobK
Banned
Agreed.
Just because people disagree with your points doesn't mean we didn't take you seriously.
Frankly, I've seen excellent pilots pick up a DJI Phantom and perform miracles of photography that would have been difficult in the expert's hands, but the phantoms and inspires made reasonable.
I've seen people with more money than sense waste a $3k airframe to get a picture of their yard, and no more.
I've seen people buy *EXPENSIVE* RTF kits then go turn them into toothpicks on maiden, because they didn't have ANY experience.
I've seen some of the above done with all price range of gear . . .
. . . so why are you blaming the gear?
By saying HK and FT is making it too cheap, IMO, you're not blaming idiots for being idiots (that's going to happen, regardless of price) or blaming clubs and experienced pilots for not reaching out train pilots responsibly, you're blaming the gear for being too cheap to be valued.
bhursey
The Geeky Pilot
Put on my over reacting old fart hat.. We should go back to the old days of. 400-600$ investment. So hard to fly you need a club and ama for a trainer. So an additional 100+$. That was the glory days.
Note that was a joke sorta. We did have a smaller userbase back then so safty was easier controled. However i do like that mote people now can fly. Also cheeper prices my wife is letting my get back into the hobby even though shes not a fan.
You cant fix stupid no matter how had we try.
Note that was a joke sorta. We did have a smaller userbase back then so safty was easier controled. However i do like that mote people now can fly. Also cheeper prices my wife is letting my get back into the hobby even though shes not a fan.
You cant fix stupid no matter how had we try.
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PHugger
Church Meal Expert
Seen on the interwebs -
“If you can get arrested, fined, and thrown in prison for flying your RC toy without a license, but not for entering and remaining in the country illegally — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.”
Best regards,
PCH
“If you can get arrested, fined, and thrown in prison for flying your RC toy without a license, but not for entering and remaining in the country illegally — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.”
Best regards,
PCH
Mostly Harmless
Member
Agreed.... Advancing (and cheaper) technology has always been abused by idiots. But rather than look at these few idiots, look how many young folks the FT gang has inspired to take up responsible model aviation -- and it's the cheaper technology that has made it possible for all young kids to get involved.
BobK: It's easy to lose sight of all the positives of cheaper technology when all the media does is harp on the negatives.
IMO, one of the problems with our society, is that we always seem to focus our energy in the wrong place, when attempting to address an issue. The focus should be on the people who operate in a reckless/unsafe manner, and hitting them with stiff penalties. To me, that would be the greatest deterrent.
tbaucom
AE6VP
I am going to attempt to make a vague comparison to what is happening currently in this hobby to that of amateur radio. Just as this hobby has the AMA, amateur radio has the ARRL. Both entities attempt to work with the appropriate governing body (FAA or FCC) to advocate for its members - and even non-members. Amateur radio however, has a very strong education and "self-policing" philosophy. All legal amateur radio operators understand that the misuse of the radio frequency spectrum (why did I type spektrum at first?) can have VERY serious negative effects. If one does not follow these regulations, the community may come down very hard on the offending operator because it is understood that he/she is damaging the hobby as a whole.
As for the RC hobby, I have seen many recent Youtube videos where the operator of an FPV fixed wing or multi rotor is very clearly operating in the NAS in a manner that could be considered dangerous, whether it be at extreme altitudes or over crowded public locations. I am always surprised to see that most of the comments about the video are in favor of the act (or even asking what equipment was used so it can be repeated). Very few, if any, of the comments state that what they are doing might not be good for the direction of the hobby. (maybe out of fear of being flamed?)
This might be an "apples to oranges" comparison but it is the best I could come up with. There are many differences, the most obvious being one must take and pass an FCC mandated test to legally operate an amateur radio and thus everybody is "forced" to understand the laws and regulations. Secondly, amateur radio tends to be a very "mature" crowd whereas with the recent influx of multi-rotors, the RC aircraft crowd tends to be very "youthful". When I think back to when I was a "youth" and first got my driver's license... Jeeze... I did some very stupid stuff... Third, the RC hobby has to deal with public opinion MUCH more than the amateur radio hobby. Most of the general public doesn't know the amateur radio hobby exists while, thanks to the media, they all know about the "danger of drones"!!! All it is going to take is one major incident and the public with be forever against any "toy" that flies outside.
In my personal opinion we, as a whole, need educate ourselves and be aware of public opinion. I have an AMA membership and so does my daughter. While I do agree with what the AMA is doing in regards to having a dialog with the FAA, I have a slight problem with the price of admission to the AMA. While they do have a free youth membership which is fantastic, what about the adults just getting into the hobby? Even at $38.00 the Park Flyer membership is an expensive addition to the aircraft and radio system they just purchased - which may have cost little more than 38 bucks. At a time like this I feel the AMA should be embarking on a major membership campaign. Maybe something like an educational course offered to new members with a one time discount code if the course is taken...
Just my thoughts...
As for the RC hobby, I have seen many recent Youtube videos where the operator of an FPV fixed wing or multi rotor is very clearly operating in the NAS in a manner that could be considered dangerous, whether it be at extreme altitudes or over crowded public locations. I am always surprised to see that most of the comments about the video are in favor of the act (or even asking what equipment was used so it can be repeated). Very few, if any, of the comments state that what they are doing might not be good for the direction of the hobby. (maybe out of fear of being flamed?)
This might be an "apples to oranges" comparison but it is the best I could come up with. There are many differences, the most obvious being one must take and pass an FCC mandated test to legally operate an amateur radio and thus everybody is "forced" to understand the laws and regulations. Secondly, amateur radio tends to be a very "mature" crowd whereas with the recent influx of multi-rotors, the RC aircraft crowd tends to be very "youthful". When I think back to when I was a "youth" and first got my driver's license... Jeeze... I did some very stupid stuff... Third, the RC hobby has to deal with public opinion MUCH more than the amateur radio hobby. Most of the general public doesn't know the amateur radio hobby exists while, thanks to the media, they all know about the "danger of drones"!!! All it is going to take is one major incident and the public with be forever against any "toy" that flies outside.
In my personal opinion we, as a whole, need educate ourselves and be aware of public opinion. I have an AMA membership and so does my daughter. While I do agree with what the AMA is doing in regards to having a dialog with the FAA, I have a slight problem with the price of admission to the AMA. While they do have a free youth membership which is fantastic, what about the adults just getting into the hobby? Even at $38.00 the Park Flyer membership is an expensive addition to the aircraft and radio system they just purchased - which may have cost little more than 38 bucks. At a time like this I feel the AMA should be embarking on a major membership campaign. Maybe something like an educational course offered to new members with a one time discount code if the course is taken...
Just my thoughts...
The-One-Who-Never-Crashes
TOWN-C Aviation
Bob,
I am certainly not trying to defend him! And of course I am taking everyone's input seriously.
What we need is education, not silly regulation.
Sneeky7
Member
It's natural that the FAA would take the charge on this matter (AMA is a self serving insurance company), and most agree that something needed to be put in place.
The regulation we ended up with was reckless, the language is self-conflicting, the system is poorly implemented, and the whole deal is (or at least portions are) quite likely illegal.
And this attempt to educate, track, and police the flying userbase is going to have a ripple effect with an equal need for education of the drone-scared public, legislators, and the agencies that will be out there enforcing and issuing citations.
octodreamerFNG
Member
i dunno, i think there's more to it than that.
i think the #1 problem here has been the commercialization of drone use, mostly by DJI. DJI made a "good enough" drone with the phantom and suddenly people who aren't interested in model aircraft have access to flying cameras. DJI advertised the crap out of the phantom menace, and it became a "must have" gadget.
#2 problem has been youtube. this lends itself to #1 with popularization of drones (mostly DJI phantoms) to the mainstream audience. for a while there, drone "footage" was hitting the front page of youtube constantly... so these viral video star wannabe's all wanted drones.
#3 problem then became the media, who constantly uses a fear based narrative to generate views. splitting the public into "kids are flying them, old people/soccer moms hate them".
#4 problem then steps in, as they always do... the politicians decide that they can grandstand and make feel-good do-nothing legislation all in the name of self promotion. the most dangerous place to be during any media made crisis is between a politician and a microphone. it's like standing between a momma bear and her cubs...
sure, idiots crashing their phantom menaces on the whitehouse lawn or the us open stands just fueled the fire... but creating this epidemic has been %95 commercialization + media fear mongering, and political grandstanding.
there will always be idiots, but when you have the media and the politicians amplifying the problem you have a manufactured crisis.
anyway... i think the reason we saw such a push from the FAA to pull this bullsh*t in such record time was because they wanted to curb the next wave of drone ownership. they kept putting out higher and higher numbers of how many drones they expected to sell for christmas, again... instilling fear into people... to soften the pushback from the public when they did this power grab.
the point of the speed? to try to get cool mom and cool dad to take back that drone under the christmas tree.
i think/hope that once christmas is over there will be more of a pushback from the hobbyists concerning this, there hasn't been a whole lot of time for anyone to make any formal "screw you FAA" video's yet...
IBCrazy just did a polite one, but i think once the flood gates open there will be tons of these video's getting out there informing the public to hopefully get people to understand the monumental power grab going on here...
we need more video's, we need viral video's of "famous" people within the community who are willing to tell it like it is from our point of view. i want to see a giant "screw you FAA" video on the front page of youtube. the public needs to understand just how absurd and ridiculous this all is.
idiots flying drones aren't the biggest problems... it's the idiots that allow themselves to be so easily manipulated by talking heads and corrupt politicians/government employees.
bhursey
The Geeky Pilot
I started in the high cost days. No way I would of been able to come back to the hobby at the price it was then. Now I can afford it even though my wife thinks I speed to much. I don't think as you say having the hobby cheaper is going to make the hobby any better.
AMA in my opinion over all has done a lot in the hobby. Taking the views of some members does not represent the organization in my experience. Does the org do whats best for its members yes. Do they do the best for the hobby as a whole originally yes, however they seem to or maybe its just the old members are trying to understand and cach up to new tech and are having trouble keeping up..
I do see their points in all this. In the old days AMA was great for the hobby. I do see their place in the hobby now. While we all want to do what we want to do in the air they are strongly focused on safety which being around many events when I started I strongly believe in safety. I have seen things go real bad bad. I just hate seeing AMA be ragged on when they had done so much to get the hobby off the ground to what it is today. If there was no AMA the hobby would not be where it is. Think about that for a sec. Before the growth of the internet, clubs and ama newsletters, magazine, and people at the local hobby shop was the only way to get your information and learn. It may of been more important up until the early 2000's and may not as important as they are now because of wonderful communities like flitetest, rcgroups, fpvlab and so on. I was absolutely stunned when coming back to the hobby after 13 years this year how much it has grown, the tech, and the communities. I admit I was a tad over whelmed and was a little tough caching up on all the new electronics batteries and so on.
I do see the rules have been developed over the years from valid reasoning and experience. I guess you could or want to call me an old fart. Not sure im 34 now and was the youngest member of my club back when I started in 1998. LOL I was 17. The members literally took me under their wing, they helped me teached me, gave my there old radios, and gave me there aircraft they no longer flew because they know I could not afford the hobby. They encouraged me and provided a safe and fun environment to keep me out of trouble as a teen. That is part of the reason I defend clubs because I have seen what they are and can be. Now that's not all clubs but I have a VERY positive experience.
AMA did do a video it has some information on what AMA is doing legally. However you will see they are focusing on their members. However that is what an organization does.. They do indicate registration and education makes since but its all around how it is implemented. Unfortunately the FAA is doing it wrong.
I am for all parts of the hobby. I like and want a racing quad "Dont have the $" I have been flying hotprops , free rider, and soon to be when I have $ liftoff sims, I talked my wife into letting me get a FPV setup when it was on sale with the FPV vapor so now I have Fatshark Teliporter V4's with micro vxt and cam, and I just baught my second vtx and a board ccd cam. I am building a FPV flying wing. I know when fly with others its not about me. If there is allot of aircraft in the air I will fly LOS because its safer. I will fly FPV with a spotter. I will stay in LOS. I know it tempted to push the limits beyond the rules however I can see the dangors. I have been to allot of flying events, and seen issues and crashes occur. Big gasser crashes are very dangerous and large hence the old farts focus on safety. I have seen one come through a catch fence. I can see their points.
In the United States the answer is simple. Liberty and justice is always the answer.
So far as I am concerned, if I harm someone I am responsible, regardless of any law. I fly by AMA rules so as to not harm anyone and so that if I do, I may be held accountable. I do the same when I shoot and for the same reasons.
A better solution here would be to say that if you harm someone you will be sued. If you harm someone while not following AMA rules you can be sued for much much more.
This solution costs taxpayers FAR less, allows people to keep their hobby, airspace and dignity. This is the liberty and justice solution that has worked for the past 80 or so years. The track record is PHENOMENAL whereas no government licensing scheme has ever worked nearly as well.
This is FAA hype trying to get more money and power to the FAA by creating division and fear in our populace. It is not reasonable. It is not feasible. It is not legal.
It should not be tolerated much less obeyed.
bhursey
The Geeky Pilot
Sad day 45k ignorant people gave in.. http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/23/45k-register-their-drones-with-the-faa-in-first-2-days/ Im sure the FAA inflated the numbers as always.
octodreamerFNG
Member
people like that are the reason shows like american idol and dancing with the stars always do so well...
lemmings...
bitogre
Member
I am not sure if that is good or bad but that is very much relative to the actual number of RC pilots and RC aircraft that should be registering. In many ways, I think that number is way too low for it to be a sign that registration will go well for the FAA, especially given that they think there will be over 1.5 million "drones" in the hands of hobbyist this Christmas. And that does not include more traditional model RC planes. But it is about 1/3 of the number of AMA members so it does look it may have more support than the AMA. I suspect that if this number exceeds the number of AMA members by the end of the January 20th free registration period, then it may be a sign the AMA will not get its way. But who knows. Only time will tell.
razor02097
Rogue Drone Pilot
Umm... 45,000 isn't that great when there are MILLIONS that are estimated to be owning affected units.
