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Flite Test Monster Cruiser

Flite Test Monster Cruiser 2019-08-21

fliteadmin

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
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#1

JennyC6

Well-known member
#3
Oh wow, that monster Spit had a LAZY powertrain. 6,000RPM on a 20-10 is NOTHING. Could do that with quite a few engines and then some.


Mmmm. Might just be building me a monster spit sometime.
 

SlingShot

Maneuvering With Purpose
#5
I guys,
For this kind of monster plane, do you use thicker foam board, as 10mm, for example?
Thanks.

Jean-Claude
Those plans and the model in the video were based on original foamboard (3/16"). You could blow up the plans for the standard c-pack Cruiser to 200%, make your own strengthening mods, and use the thicker foamboard.
 

Headbang

Well-known member
#11
FA-82 would be too small. 30cc comes out to 1.8 cubic inches, 40cc to 2.45CID. I 'spose if you had a gear reduction drive the FA-82 could swing a 20-10 at 6500 but even then it'd be working pretty hard at it.
Need to bare in mind that a foam board plane ends up half the wieght of a balsa plane. The cruiser on nitro will only come in at 6-8lb. Which is more 60 glow weights. Not going to get down to 6500rpm. But the saito would power it nicely I think and sound very good while doing so!
 

JennyC6

Well-known member
#12
Need to bare in mind that a foam board plane ends up half the wieght of a balsa plane. The cruiser on nitro will only come in at 6-8lb. Which is more 60 glow weights. Not going to get down to 6500rpm. But the saito would power it nicely I think and sound very good while doing so!
I'm looking more at swinging the same prop at the same speed that the Swede was doing with his electric system. If you did step down on the prop you could get away with a much smaller engine.

If it's only 6-7lbs, with the wide wingspan that thing has, you could get away with even smaller than an Fa-82. My NexSTAR 46 weighs 7lbs or so and a Magnum 52RFS swinging an 11-7-3 at 9750 pulls it with authority. It does have a very light wing loading, as trainers oft do, but then again so would that foamboard giant spit since it wouldn't weigh all that much.

As for Bixler's giant scale cruiser...being a twin we could get away with even smaller engines still. A pair of FS40 Surpasses would be more than enough; would fly extremely scale and probably be able to carry an hour's worth of fuel ez.


>.< If I wasn't broke-as-hell I'd be experimenting with this stuff myself! Glow's all I fly and I love foamboard. Blah. Will have to settle for trying to convince my old Spear(The one I put two Cox engines on) to accept an OS 40FP instead.
 

Headbang

Well-known member
#13
I'm looking more at swinging the same prop at the same speed that the Swede was doing with his electric system. If you did step down on the prop you could get away with a much smaller engine.

If it's only 6-7lbs, with the wide wingspan that thing has, you could get away with even smaller than an Fa-82. My NexSTAR 46 weighs 7lbs or so and a Magnum 52RFS swinging an 11-7-3 at 9750 pulls it with authority. It does have a very light wing loading, as trainers oft do, but then again so would that foamboard giant spit since it wouldn't weigh all that much.

As for Bixler's giant scale cruiser...being a twin we could get away with even smaller engines still. A pair of FS40 Surpasses would be more than enough; would fly extremely scale and probably be able to carry an hour's worth of fuel ez.


>.< If I wasn't broke-as-hell I'd be experimenting with this stuff myself! Glow's all I fly and I love foamboard. Blah. Will have to settle for trying to convince my old Spear(The one I put two Cox engines on) to accept an OS 40FP instead.
Only hope to get close to that rpm is to go gas and stay at 3/4 throttle. Personally I do not do glow anymore at all. Either electric or gas. Saito has the fg11. Real nice little motor that power wise is similar to an OS .55. Of course sounds better being a 4 stroke gas. And no need to spend 20mins wiping down the plane when done flying.
Glow motors are easy to come by, hit a plane auction, ppl are offloading them for next to nothing like they are hot potatoes. Seeing 40-60 OS's go for like $5 each.
 

JennyC6

Well-known member
#14
Only hope to get close to that rpm is to go gas and stay at 3/4 throttle. Personally I do not do glow anymore at all. Either electric or gas. Saito has the fg11. Real nice little motor that power wise is similar to an OS .55. Of course sounds better being a 4 stroke gas. And no need to spend 20mins wiping down the plane when done flying.
Glow motors are easy to come by, hit a plane auction, ppl are offloading them for next to nothing like they are hot potatoes. Seeing 40-60 OS's go for like $5 each.
My own personal rule on fuel: Methanol for 60-size and below, gasoline for anything north of 60 size. Glow ignition all the way, though. The OS G5 glow plug ignites standard 87 octane gasoline with standard 2-cycle oil mixed in standard ratios and it does this with the same glow driver we've been using for decades; absolute wizardry went into that plug and they use it primarily in their GGT10 and GGT15 glow ignition, gasoline-fuelled two cycles. This plug is standard thread too, it should fit into p.much any glow engine that accepts normal plugs. Maybe I'll get one, throw it in my 46 AX and my Saito FA-45 MkII, see how they run on gasoline with a G5 plug in. Lessee...16:1 oil mix oughtta be good for those two, aye?

I.....don't feel like screwing around with, or carrying the weight of, CDI units, especially with smaller engines where the CDI unit weighs a fourth as much as the engine it's firing off does. And given my transport situation this is the size range I'm working with. 40-60 size at most; I can't really transport a wing much larger than my NexSTAR's right now.

As for getting engines, I'll have to poke around more. I'm on the Glow Nation FB but those guys know what these things are worth and actually want them so prices there are kinda high from time to time. That being said i've nabbed some real steals from that bunch; an AP 061 for 50 bucks that came with a Cox Medallion 09 RC free and a Norvel 061 with a couple of rando tanks thrown in gratis for 70 bucks. Can't say no that! What I'm really after, however, is OS 4-cycles and Enya 4-cycles.

OS FS26 and FS40 Surpass engines make great powerplants for Flite Test planes and for cars since OS themselves sold them with different cams, carbs, cranks for car use specifically. I'd absolutely love to throw an FS26C-X in my Slayer and my SC10GT but an OG sells for damn near a thousand bucks if it crosses eBay at all...but if I got my hands on a workable FS26 Surpass for a pittance at a swap meet I could just create a new FS26C for a fraction what an OG would cost. Same for FS40.

OS FS52, FS70, FS62V are the bees knees for my balsa plane ambitions. Reliable as a swiss watch, plenty powerful to fly any plane I can transport to and from the flyin' spot.

I want Enya 4-cycles for multi-engine applications. These things use two seperate cams, one for intake one for exhaust, and this quirk allows them to be re-timed for reverse rotation in about five minutes. I think you can get cams for certain Saito engines that will allow them to run in reverse rotation(IIRC It's one of the cams from a twin that used the same cylinder), and if you want an OS FS to run backwards you're pretty much phoning up Crane or Comp or Lunati and asking them to custom-grind one for you since the OS twins are so much more bespoke than the Saito twins.
 

Headbang

Well-known member
#15
My own personal rule on fuel: Methanol for 60-size and below, gasoline for anything north of 60 size. Glow ignition all the way, though. The OS G5 glow plug ignites standard 87 octane gasoline with standard 2-cycle oil mixed in standard ratios and it does this with the same glow driver we've been using for decades; absolute wizardry went into that plug and they use it primarily in their GGT10 and GGT15 glow ignition, gasoline-fuelled two cycles. This plug is standard thread too, it should fit into p.much any glow engine that accepts normal plugs. Maybe I'll get one, throw it in my 46 AX and my Saito FA-45 MkII, see how they run on gasoline with a G5 plug in. Lessee...16:1 oil mix oughtta be good for those two, aye?

I.....don't feel like screwing around with, or carrying the weight of, CDI units, especially with smaller engines where the CDI unit weighs a fourth as much as the engine it's firing off does. And given my transport situation this is the size range I'm working with. 40-60 size at most; I can't really transport a wing much larger than my NexSTAR's right now.

As for getting engines, I'll have to poke around more. I'm on the Glow Nation FB but those guys know what these things are worth and actually want them so prices there are kinda high from time to time. That being said i've nabbed some real steals from that bunch; an AP 061 for 50 bucks that came with a Cox Medallion 09 RC free and a Norvel 061 with a couple of rando tanks thrown in gratis for 70 bucks. Can't say no that! What I'm really after, however, is OS 4-cycles and Enya 4-cycles.

OS FS26 and FS40 Surpass engines make great powerplants for Flite Test planes and for cars since OS themselves sold them with different cams, carbs, cranks for car use specifically. I'd absolutely love to throw an FS26C-X in my Slayer and my SC10GT but an OG sells for damn near a thousand bucks if it crosses eBay at all...but if I got my hands on a workable FS26 Surpass for a pittance at a swap meet I could just create a new FS26C for a fraction what an OG would cost. Same for FS40.

OS FS52, FS70, FS62V are the bees knees for my balsa plane ambitions. Reliable as a swiss watch, plenty powerful to fly any plane I can transport to and from the flyin' spot.

I want Enya 4-cycles for multi-engine applications. These things use two seperate cams, one for intake one for exhaust, and this quirk allows them to be re-timed for reverse rotation in about five minutes. I think you can get cams for certain Saito engines that will allow them to run in reverse rotation(IIRC It's one of the cams from a twin that used the same cylinder), and if you want an OS FS to run backwards you're pretty much phoning up Crane or Comp or Lunati and asking them to custom-grind one for you since the OS twins are so much more bespoke than the Saito twins.
4 strokes are not as easy to come by. I basically replaced glow with electric 3yrs ago. Just made sense for me. Cost of glow fuel has gotten stupid. I can buy a 2200 3s battery cheaper then a gal of glow fuel. Normally I would never use something as small as an 11cc gas motor, but i need to go fuel of some sort for 50 sized vintage kits. Yes somewhere in the 16-25:1 ratio sounds right, just make sure you add a waste container, those little engines make a lot of mess of you just route it out the fuse. Most of my fuel planes are 60cc gas and bigger. My rule is under 60cc go electric, 60cc can go either way, over 60cc go gas.
 

JennyC6

Well-known member
#16
4 strokes are not as easy to come by. I basically replaced glow with electric 3yrs ago. Just made sense for me. Cost of glow fuel has gotten stupid. I can buy a 2200 3s battery cheaper then a gal of glow fuel. Normally I would never use something as small as an 11cc gas motor, but i need to go fuel of some sort for 50 sized vintage kits. Yes somewhere in the 16-25:1 ratio sounds right, just make sure you add a waste container, those little engines make a lot of mess of you just route it out the fuse. Most of my fuel planes are 60cc gas and bigger. My rule is under 60cc go electric, 60cc can go either way, over 60cc go gas.
For me, the engine is half the draw, so electric just is not an option. I'm one of those wierdos, yanno? I don't care if the plane's only got a 20" wingspan, I want an engine on the front of it. Just means an excuse to buy those adorable little Cox motors!

The mess doesn't mean anything to me. It's half a heartbeat to wipe the schmoo off the side. Not a big deal at all and, to be honest, I tend to let my NexSTAR go a month or two between cleanings. Doesn't seem to bother it any.

A gallon of Omega 15% is only about $25 for me, that being said it's part of why I am so insistent on 4-cycles. I can pretty much double my flight times going from 2-cycle to 4-cycle. My NexSTAR will run for 33 minutes at cruise power on a 270cc tank and its Magnum 52RFS; I timed it. The OS 46AX that was there previous would run for about 15. I also think they sound better and look better. Never been fond of that big aluminum tumor of an exhaust that hangs off the side of 2-cycles.

Incidentally I actually lost a few grams on the NexSTAR when I swapped over to 4-cycle, and it's because of those heavy bulky mufflers they use. Heh. Wasn't enough to affect CG any, but still noteworthy.
 

Headbang

Well-known member
#17
For me, the engine is half the draw, so electric just is not an option. I'm one of those wierdos, yanno? I don't care if the plane's only got a 20" wingspan, I want an engine on the front of it. Just means an excuse to buy those adorable little Cox motors!

The mess doesn't mean anything to me. It's half a heartbeat to wipe the schmoo off the side. Not a big deal at all and, to be honest, I tend to let my NexSTAR go a month or two between cleanings. Doesn't seem to bother it any.

A gallon of Omega 15% is only about $25 for me, that being said it's part of why I am so insistent on 4-cycles. I can pretty much double my flight times going from 2-cycle to 4-cycle. My NexSTAR will run for 33 minutes at cruise power on a 270cc tank and its Magnum 52RFS; I timed it. The OS 46AX that was there previous would run for about 15. I also think they sound better and look better. Never been fond of that big aluminum tumor of an exhaust that hangs off the side of 2-cycles.

Incidentally I actually lost a few grams on the NexSTAR when I swapped over to 4-cycle, and it's because of those heavy bulky mufflers they use. Heh. Wasn't enough to affect CG any, but still noteworthy.
Lol glad you think electric is easy. Electricity seems to mystify most glow guys in my club! I am an electronics guy, so mess with electric stuff more then I ever did glow. A motor is just a stator and a can, everything else comes in the windings, bearings, ect. Not to mention all the other stuff. Lots to mess with and tweak to get that last little bit of efficiency and tune just right for the application. On a properly tuned and matched electric system flight times in the 30min range are common, that said my gassers never do more then 8min, not willing to add more fuel wieght, every oz counts.
I give you credit tho, I would not think foam board planes were built strong enough to handle the vibrations of glow, or fuel proof enough. I keep track of stuff you do just to see how it ends up!
 

JennyC6

Well-known member
#18
Lol glad you think electric is easy. Electricity seems to mystify most glow guys in my club! I am an electronics guy, so mess with electric stuff more then I ever did glow.
Yeah I've never downplayed it or tried to claim otherwise. Electric is very much, and quite literally, plug-and-play. It's just not what makes me grin.
I give you credit tho, I would not think foam board planes were built strong enough to handle the vibrations of glow, or fuel proof enough. I keep track of stuff you do just to see how it ends up!
The vibrations are the biggest issue to work through with FT designs. The firewall isn't substantial enough to handle it as-the-plans-call, but with the right tweaks they can be reinforced enough to spread the load around and stay attached.

I have to figure out how I'm gonna make my Spear play nice with an OS 40FP. A 9" prop won't clear the ground with the gear I have on it. Maybe an 8-6-3 will work with that engine? It pulled 10,500 on a 10-6-2, 9-6-2 would prolly put it more in its happy place. Ahh but it's gotta be a pusher prop too....
 

Headbang

Well-known member
#19
Yeah I've never downplayed it or tried to claim otherwise. Electric is very much, and quite literally, plug-and-play. It's just not what makes me grin.

The vibrations are the biggest issue to work through with FT designs. The firewall isn't substantial enough to handle it as-the-plans-call, but with the right tweaks they can be reinforced enough to spread the load around and stay attached.

I have to figure out how I'm gonna make my Spear play nice with an OS 40FP. A 9" prop won't clear the ground with the gear I have on it. Maybe an 8-6-3 will work with that engine? It pulled 10,500 on a 10-6-2, 9-6-2 would prolly put it more in its happy place. Ahh but it's gotta be a pusher prop too....
3 blade would not be a good idea unless you have landing gear, they are very likely to break on a belly landing. Rule of thumb is down 1", up 2 on pitch. So if a 9x6x2 is the sweet spot, then an 8x8x2 would be a good bet. Realistically a 15-25 would be a better fit. But heck, when I used to do glow back in the 80's if it called for a 20, then a os 40sf went in, if it called for a 40, in went a 60 lol
 

JennyC6

Well-known member
#20
3 blade would not be a good idea unless you have landing gear, they are very likely to break on a belly landing.
Landing gear is 100% why I'm concerned about GC at all. If it was a belly lander as intended I'd just throw a 9-6-2 APC pusher on it, clock it such that when it's coming up on compression the prop's level with the floorpan, and that'd be that. Hit throttle-cut right before touchdown and all'd be happy.

But I put tricycle gear on it so getting ground clearance is a concern. If I can't find a suitable prop I might just take the gear off and bellyland it but, eh, kinda not enthused about having to hand-launch something with a screaming pusher engine.
Realistically a 15-25 would be a better fit. But heck, when I used to do glow back in the 80's if it called for a 20, then a os 40sf went in, if it called for a 40, in went a 60 lol
I would quote the patron saint of shop tinkering, but that sorta language is frowned upon on these forums haha. But yah, no, the 40FP is what I have on hand. Either that or a Saito Fa-45 which already has a 10-7-3 pusher on it. The 40FP used to be on my Aerostar 40 but it just wasn't enough engine for a plane that heavy. I had to fly at 3/4 throttle to get it out of high alpha, whereas my NexSTAR flies at 35% throttle quite comfortably. My 46AX and ST GS45ABC are way too powerful for a Spear; if I even could prop them adequately they'd fly it far faster than it's comfortable flying.