grether2000
Junior Member
I'd say yes. It is small, and will fly pretty slow. It is also pretty tough and cheap and easy to build/repair.
FT Mini Speedster Build (Mighty Minis)
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I'd say yes. It is small, and will fly pretty slow. It is also pretty tough and cheap and easy to build/repair.
AeroMaestro
Senior Member
Well, I just got a chance to fly mine for real today. I had about 45 minutes of calm wind and sunshine after work, so I flew 5 batteries. And this is exactly the plane I was hoping it would be, and it's even better in many ways! It's the perfect plane to keep in the trunk of my little car with a stack of batteries and a spare transmitter. I was thinking of buying a UMX beast to keep in the car, but not anymore. This plane is fun enough.
With gentle wind, it flies nice and slow and docile. (I'm flying 3S, with an 1800kv motor) It cruises around at about 40-50% throttle and it's just a really fun, gentle plane to fly. But it can also kick into pretty high gear. With my setup I've got unlimited vertical, a pretty good top speed, and it will harrier around and even hover pretty darn well! In fact, I can hover this plane much better than I can hover my E-Flite Inverza 280!
Will it work for a beginner? I think so. It flies every bit as well as my Hobbyzone Champ did when I taught myself to fly two years ago. But it's also much more durable, and also capable of more advanced flying. I'm really looking forward to taking this plane home for the holidays to buddy-box with my nieces and nephews. But my advice for a beginner is DO NOT try to fly it in wind. A gust of wind on the side can tip-stall this plane and knock it into the ground in the blink of an eye if you're an inexperienced pilot. But with no wind (or under 5 mph) it's a great beginner plane, in my opinion.
I initially thought I was going to have to add some ailerons to have any fun with this plane, since I haven't flown a 3-channel in a long time. But it's very fun as it is!
... and I just checked my batteries. I'm flying 500mAh 3S Zippy Compact batteries. I flew each for 6 minutes, and they all have 11.5 volts left. Not too shabby! That's even including a few minutes of "3d" flying -- hovering, harriers, etc. And a few minutes of just zipping around as fast as I can.
With gentle wind, it flies nice and slow and docile. (I'm flying 3S, with an 1800kv motor) It cruises around at about 40-50% throttle and it's just a really fun, gentle plane to fly. But it can also kick into pretty high gear. With my setup I've got unlimited vertical, a pretty good top speed, and it will harrier around and even hover pretty darn well! In fact, I can hover this plane much better than I can hover my E-Flite Inverza 280!
Will it work for a beginner? I think so. It flies every bit as well as my Hobbyzone Champ did when I taught myself to fly two years ago. But it's also much more durable, and also capable of more advanced flying. I'm really looking forward to taking this plane home for the holidays to buddy-box with my nieces and nephews. But my advice for a beginner is DO NOT try to fly it in wind. A gust of wind on the side can tip-stall this plane and knock it into the ground in the blink of an eye if you're an inexperienced pilot. But with no wind (or under 5 mph) it's a great beginner plane, in my opinion.
I initially thought I was going to have to add some ailerons to have any fun with this plane, since I haven't flown a 3-channel in a long time. But it's very fun as it is!
... and I just checked my batteries. I'm flying 500mAh 3S Zippy Compact batteries. I flew each for 6 minutes, and they all have 11.5 volts left. Not too shabby! That's even including a few minutes of "3d" flying -- hovering, harriers, etc. And a few minutes of just zipping around as fast as I can.
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I haven't built mine yet, just got it cut yesterday and just got my servos in the mail today...hopefully it will be ready for a maiden by Friday or at worst Saturday
So keep that in mind with my response....
I'd say it looks like a potentially good beginner plane, but maybe not a great first plane.
I'd still suggest the FT Flyer as a first plane. It flies slow, it's super quick and easy to build, and is just plain fun (I believe in the Who's David episode our favorite Sweede even called it his favorite plane...I could be wrong on the episode but I know I remember him saying the Flyer was his favorite at some point.)
I've built most of the swappables and the Flyer and old Fogey are the two I keep coming back to and flying the most because they're so simple and fun. (I've been meaning to build a "full" Speedster since it was released but have been too busy with my multis to get to it....it's so similar to the Fogey though I'm pretty sure it would perform similarly.)
The mini's are RET planes like the Flyer, Nutball, Fogey, Speedster so they all control the same - even if they behave a little differently in the air.
The mini's seem a little more finicky to setup due to their small size. Air and lift don't scale either which adds another issue. That's just the nature of something being smaller. The bigger planes are a bit more forgiving in the air and more tolerant of mistakes in construction.
So my advice would be to start with a Flyer, then try a full size fogey or speedster to get a feel for the more advanced building techniques, and then move on to the mini's once you've got the basics of foam building/flying under your belt.
Though, knowing that you're in an area where inside flying is going to be a good idea this time of year and knowing your skill level on building....I'd say you would probably be ok with the mini as a first plane. But in general personally I'd still say the flyer is a better first plane.
T-Richard
Active member
I disagree, the scout make a great trainer. The ft flier needs to be well balanced and have precise throws and hates wind. Different power set-ups make it a different plane... I made a scout and it flew fantastic. I think it's fine as a trainer. Of all FT planes its second only to a light and mildly powered Simple soarer as a trainer. More fun tho
May build a speedster next tho I worry how it'll react to wind. There is always a lot of that here.
I really like the mini scout. Will at least try to make a mini speedster when there is an indoor event (my first). I can't wait for the next few.
May build a speedster next tho I worry how it'll react to wind. There is always a lot of that here.
I really like the mini scout. Will at least try to make a mini speedster when there is an indoor event (my first). I can't wait for the next few.
I just ordered this along with some other goodies. I have a spare Cobra 2204-2300 motor I'll toss on this along with a 5x4x3 prop.
I am going to attempt on a second frame to install ailerons for grins and giggles and ordered a 3.5g micro servo for them. It is more of an experiment than anything to see what it will be like.
The build;
FT Mini Speedster
Cobra 2204-2300kv motor
ZMR 10a esc
HQ Prop 5x4x3
HK HXT 5g servos for rudder and elevator
HK S0361 3.6g servos for ailerons
I'll build a mini fpv vtx as well with some other modifications to it. Shall be good times!
I am going to attempt on a second frame to install ailerons for grins and giggles and ordered a 3.5g micro servo for them. It is more of an experiment than anything to see what it will be like.
The build;
FT Mini Speedster
Cobra 2204-2300kv motor
ZMR 10a esc
HQ Prop 5x4x3
HK HXT 5g servos for rudder and elevator
HK S0361 3.6g servos for ailerons
I'll build a mini fpv vtx as well with some other modifications to it. Shall be good times!
Thanks, jhitesma.
I was hoping for something more challenging than an FT Flyer or Nutball. Flying them may be fun but the build looks pretty boring.
To fly fixed wing I need something that can fly in a small, outdoor area (50' x 100') and with the size, the dihedral and the fact that I have a stack of DYS 1806 and a few Suppo 1510s and even a few emax 1804s sitting around makes these pretty tempting.
I presume the Speedsters issue with wind is due to the dihedral causing the wing tips to push up into banks in a gust.
I was hoping for something more challenging than an FT Flyer or Nutball. Flying them may be fun but the build looks pretty boring.
To fly fixed wing I need something that can fly in a small, outdoor area (50' x 100') and with the size, the dihedral and the fact that I have a stack of DYS 1806 and a few Suppo 1510s and even a few emax 1804s sitting around makes these pretty tempting.
I presume the Speedsters issue with wind is due to the dihedral causing the wing tips to push up into banks in a gust.
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The Nutball is a bit tricky to get setup and flying well, the FT Flyer when built to FT's plans "just works" in my experience. It's not an exciting build - but that's a big part of why I think it's a great first plane. You're going to crash. And the Flyer is so minimal and light that it takes minimal damage when it does crash and is super quick to build a second when it's beyond repair.
The mini's are similar is weight, but the build is considerably more complex. That does mean there's more enjoyment from the build - but it also means when you crash there's more time before you're back in the air.
The Flyer and the Mini's are both about one sheet of foam, the flyer does tend to use a slightly heavier motor and servos, but given it's size and weight I'm pretty sure it would fly with the 250 sized motors just fine. The 24g motor is no slouch, but the DYS 1806 motors are a bit more powerful so should have no issues pulling the flyer around - though given their higher Kv they may not fly as well quite as slowly...but that's the same on the mini's.
100' x 50' is pretty cramped...even the mini's I don't think you'd have much luck in that much space. I could be wrong but my gut is telling me that making a turn in 50' is going to be tough. Will know more soon. Got my airframe 90% completed last night and my electronics 90% as well. Need to work out an issue with my RX (I'm only getting servo movement in one direction for some reason and it was too late last night to keep investigating why) then get the gear mounted up and it should be ready for a maiden. Fingers crossed that the calm air we've had the past few days continues through the weekend
I'm really enjoying the mini build so far. Being so small has made it possible for me to work despite not getting the kitchen counter to work on
But - being so small has also added a few additional challenges. Blade gets a little dull and pulls at the foam a little...on a bigger plane the mistake is easy to ignore. On this it can leave a whole piece unusable. I used more blades cutting my mini speedster out than I did my last Spitfire!
After over four nights of fighting with this lemon ultralight RX I finally got it working tonight. (Not all in a row, I spent two nights fighting with it when I built my FT-22 then gave up and tossed my original 9x RX in there but I didn't want to use a bigger heavier RX on this plane.)
Turns out the problem, as far as I can tell, was the double sided mounting tape that came with it. No clue why since I can't get a reading off the tape with my ohm meter...but when I put the tape on the bottom the RX just did all kinds of crazy things. Like only moving servos in one direction and input on one channel causing two channels to respond.
I kept thinking it was the programming in my TX, but tonight I finally gave up and grabbed another brand new identical RX from my parts box...and everything worked perfect. I then took the tape off the bottom of the original one and tried it again - and now it's working fine as well.
Can't explain this one since the tape doesn't seem to be conductive...but after wasting four evenings fighting with it I figured I better share in case anyone else runs into the same problem!
Turns out the problem, as far as I can tell, was the double sided mounting tape that came with it. No clue why since I can't get a reading off the tape with my ohm meter...but when I put the tape on the bottom the RX just did all kinds of crazy things. Like only moving servos in one direction and input on one channel causing two channels to respond.
I kept thinking it was the programming in my TX, but tonight I finally gave up and grabbed another brand new identical RX from my parts box...and everything worked perfect. I then took the tape off the bottom of the original one and tried it again - and now it's working fine as well.
Can't explain this one since the tape doesn't seem to be conductive...but after wasting four evenings fighting with it I figured I better share in case anyone else runs into the same problem!
Ready for a maiden tomorrow, fingers crossed that the week of no wind we've had holds out and I can find time to hit the park!
No landing gear yet since I have wire that's too thin and too thick...but none that's "goldilocks", looks like an excuse to hit the hobby shop tomorrow
I used HXT500 servos and thankfully they're short enough you can put them just about anywhere as I wound up with them a touch further forward than I meant to and they wound up with the tallest part of the servo just over the highest part of the wing...but they just barely clear! Getting the servos glued in was tricky. Had to do it with them attached to the RX and powered up so I could keep them centered as I kept bumping them trying to install them. Kind of tight quarters fitting them in there too!
Oh, and I noticed Josh said 1cm to the hole on the servo arm..but if I did that then they were too long and hit each other. But a little later he said 1/4" which is almost 1/8" shorter than 1cm. So I trimmed them down a touch more until they cleared. Caused me a bit of confusion and ended up going by visual more than measurement on that.
I didn't have any 1/16" ply on hand for the control horns...I cut some out of 1/8" ply but they were ridiculously chunky. So instead I went back to what I used on my first planes and made some out of a used up gift card:
With the servos that far forward I'm actually having problems positioning the nanotech 370mah 2cells I picked up for these planes...can't push it far enough back or my ESC gets in the way (may have to lengthen the motor/esc wires to get a bit more wiggle room) so I put it on the lower plate...but down there it has to stick forward a bit more than I like to balance.
Will play with final battery position a bit more tomorrow once I can get the gear built.
Only question is did I miss something or is the little trapezoidal piece of poster board not actually used? Watched the video three times but don't see it being used anywhere.
No landing gear yet since I have wire that's too thin and too thick...but none that's "goldilocks", looks like an excuse to hit the hobby shop tomorrow
I used HXT500 servos and thankfully they're short enough you can put them just about anywhere as I wound up with them a touch further forward than I meant to and they wound up with the tallest part of the servo just over the highest part of the wing...but they just barely clear! Getting the servos glued in was tricky. Had to do it with them attached to the RX and powered up so I could keep them centered as I kept bumping them trying to install them. Kind of tight quarters fitting them in there too!
Oh, and I noticed Josh said 1cm to the hole on the servo arm..but if I did that then they were too long and hit each other. But a little later he said 1/4" which is almost 1/8" shorter than 1cm. So I trimmed them down a touch more until they cleared. Caused me a bit of confusion and ended up going by visual more than measurement on that.
I didn't have any 1/16" ply on hand for the control horns...I cut some out of 1/8" ply but they were ridiculously chunky. So instead I went back to what I used on my first planes and made some out of a used up gift card:
With the servos that far forward I'm actually having problems positioning the nanotech 370mah 2cells I picked up for these planes...can't push it far enough back or my ESC gets in the way (may have to lengthen the motor/esc wires to get a bit more wiggle room) so I put it on the lower plate...but down there it has to stick forward a bit more than I like to balance.
Will play with final battery position a bit more tomorrow once I can get the gear built.
Only question is did I miss something or is the little trapezoidal piece of poster board not actually used? Watched the video three times but don't see it being used anywhere.
Sounds like your build went very similar to mine, besides leaving the servos powered and centered, I also used the magnets on stick tip to keep the control surfaces centered while installing the servos...and had the same initial question/issue on servo arms, solved the same manner. For what it's worth, I ended up using the 2nd hole of a trimmed arm.
I believe that trapezoid you mention is the control throw test gauge. One side is a 13* angle, the other is 16* angle for high/low rates on rudder & elevators.
I had similar COG issues, finally added a 3g screw under the tail to help. This allows me to use my 850-950mah 2S cells I have laying around from my V262, and velcro them under the motor pod.
I believe that trapezoid you mention is the control throw test gauge. One side is a 13* angle, the other is 16* angle for high/low rates on rudder & elevators.
I had similar COG issues, finally added a 3g screw under the tail to help. This allows me to use my 850-950mah 2S cells I have laying around from my V262, and velcro them under the motor pod.
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I wound up in the 3rd hole, but may move it into the second. They clear on the 3rd but just barely...And 100% on my TX matches the high gauge perfectly with that setup. Though when I setup my low rates right rudder still maxes out for some reason (control arm hole is right over the hinge) even though left and both elevator setups lowered no problem.
Nope, the throw gauge is foam and is marked with an H and L. The little piece on the posterboard has two tiny little tick marks but no explanation what it is or why it's there. I see it in the video when Josh is doing the turtle deck...but it's never used in the video as far as I can tell.
I added some bamboo skids to the bottom of the tail to help a bit. It's still REALLY touchy about CG though, shift the battery 1/4" and it goes from severe nose down to severe tail down.
Was hoping to see how it would do today...but woke up to the sound of 35mph sustained winds ad 50mph gusts. Looks like I won't be flying ANYTHING today
Yeah, OK...forgot about the piece of posterboard...I didn't use it for anything either. Maybe a leftover from an early design attempt? I did a similar mod for skids also, but used a couple pieces of 3mm CF boom leftover from mini quad projects, it fit's nicely in the foam groove.
slarti42uk
Junior Member
Confused over power setup
Hi,
I'm still new to RC flight and find the power train requirements still very confusing, though I thought I was getting it. Assuming all the recommendations in the list would work together I chose the following items:
Emax 1804 2480KV Motor
EMAX Simon Series 12amp ESC
6030 Gemfan Props Standard Rotation
Turnigy nano-tech 460mah 2S 25~40C Lipo Pack
HXT500 6.2g / 0.6kg / .08sec Micro Servo
Having built it and powered it up for a test with the prop on (holding it as if to launch) I have found that at full throttle, the motor cuts in and out. I'm not sure if I *should* hold it and throttle right up, but anyway. While trying to research the cause of this I found that the emax motor spec page calls for a 3S battery and a 5x3 prop (http://www.emaxmodel.com/pic/201404/2819631.jpg).
I thought I was starting to understand things with number of cells, Kv and prop size, but maybe not. Is it correct that the motor should run at lower rpm with a 2S than a 3S? And in turn if you increase the prop size you'd get similar thrust as with a 3S on smaller prop?
So my questions would be:
I can post a video of the motor pulsing if that helps any.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Hi,
I'm still new to RC flight and find the power train requirements still very confusing, though I thought I was getting it. Assuming all the recommendations in the list would work together I chose the following items:
Emax 1804 2480KV Motor
EMAX Simon Series 12amp ESC
6030 Gemfan Props Standard Rotation
Turnigy nano-tech 460mah 2S 25~40C Lipo Pack
HXT500 6.2g / 0.6kg / .08sec Micro Servo
Having built it and powered it up for a test with the prop on (holding it as if to launch) I have found that at full throttle, the motor cuts in and out. I'm not sure if I *should* hold it and throttle right up, but anyway. While trying to research the cause of this I found that the emax motor spec page calls for a 3S battery and a 5x3 prop (http://www.emaxmodel.com/pic/201404/2819631.jpg).
I thought I was starting to understand things with number of cells, Kv and prop size, but maybe not. Is it correct that the motor should run at lower rpm with a 2S than a 3S? And in turn if you increase the prop size you'd get similar thrust as with a 3S on smaller prop?
So my questions would be:
- Can I use the motor with a 2S pack?
- Should it cut out like this if held and throttled up full?
- Is it me causing too much load on the ESC?
- Will it fly if it's cutting out like this?
- Would keeping the same motor and prop work with 2S or 3S?
- Would it just be faster on the 3S?
I can post a video of the motor pulsing if that helps any.
Thanks in advance for any help.
mikemacwillie
Senior Member
A 6x3 prop on 2S is fine with that motor, and a 12A ESC should be good with that combo. When it cuts out, does it just stop altogether? Or does it oscillate back and forth? Any chance the mounting screws you used are a bit long and have nicked the windings? If not, the problem is most likely in the ESC, or connections to the ESC.
Yeah, that setup should work, I'd double check your connections to make sure you don't have a bad solder joint somewhere. Is anything getting unusually hot?
I run that emax motor/esc combo on one of my quads off 3S with 6x4.5 props and haven't had any problems - it shouldn't have any issues on 2s unless you've got a bad connection or component.
I would suggest against the gemfan 6030 props though, they're very weak and flex a lot. A number of people have had them throw blades on high Kv motors even without any impacts or damage! I wonder if the problem could be the prop flattening out, on 3S that would be my first guess, but on 2s I'm not sure. The HQ 6x4.5 are much better props that you should be able to swing with that setup no problem. HQ also makes 6030's but they're much lower thrust if you want to keep things a bit tamer. If the HQ props are too price the FC props from himodel are cheaper and much better than the gemfans - but break quite a bit easier than the HQ's.
I run that emax motor/esc combo on one of my quads off 3S with 6x4.5 props and haven't had any problems - it shouldn't have any issues on 2s unless you've got a bad connection or component.
I would suggest against the gemfan 6030 props though, they're very weak and flex a lot. A number of people have had them throw blades on high Kv motors even without any impacts or damage! I wonder if the problem could be the prop flattening out, on 3S that would be my first guess, but on 2s I'm not sure. The HQ 6x4.5 are much better props that you should be able to swing with that setup no problem. HQ also makes 6030's but they're much lower thrust if you want to keep things a bit tamer. If the HQ props are too price the FC props from himodel are cheaper and much better than the gemfans - but break quite a bit easier than the HQ's.
slarti42uk
Junior Member
Thanks for the reply. It's reassuring to know that this should be a working combination. I took a video to show what it was doing. I Looked at the solder joints fro ESC to motor and they did look a little iffy. However I've now re-soldered it all and it's got a new problem. Now when I throttle up the prop is just jittering. If I power up just a little bit and get it spinning, it the powers all the way up without problem. I've posted a video of what it's doing now too.
I guess this may not be the right place to post this now?
I guess this may not be the right place to post this now?
mikemacwillie
Senior Member
That looks like a sync problem to me. You can sometimes correct this by increasing the timing advance in the ESC. You can do this with a couple of stick programming commands, or the program card. The stick programming instructions can be found here:
http://img.banggood.com/images/upload/2012/chenjianwei/SKU122899.6.jpg
http://img.banggood.com/images/upload/2012/chenjianwei/SKU122899.6.jpg
That first video looked like desync, which is kind of surprising on that setup since like I said I've been using those same motor/esc's on 3S with 6x4.5 props and no problems - and descync usually happens at higher power demands. But I also changed a few settings on my ESCS (I bumped the PWM rate to high to get rid of the high pitched squeal and I raised the timing to mid-high (default is mid)
So you may want to give that a try...
The jittering at start doesn't concern me quite as much - have you calibrated your ESC yet? You may just be starting with too low of a setting for that motor to run smoothly. Most brushless motors will stutter like that at very very low settings.
@ttprigg - I was thinking it could be a windshield...but it just doesn't look right any way I try to hold it on there. Maybe it was meant as a windshield but got abandoned.
I finally got mine out today and it flew great! My landings weren't very good but it handled them with grace and only took minimal damage. Few scuffs on the wings, and the wing slot is a bit longer now Also knocked my wheel pants loose, but a few drops of hot glue and they'll be good as new.
The only major issue I had was my bamboo skewers have really wallowed out the holes in the body. The pod was wrapped in tape so it's holes have held up fine, but the whole pod wobbles around in there like crazy now because the body holes took such a beating. I think on my next one I may install the fake motor pieces - but instead of gluing them to the skewers as shown in the video I'll glue them to the chassis as doublers. I may also put a bit of old gift card / hotel room key behind them to make sure the skewers can't work loose. Other than that the plane is great but the motor mounts got so torn up I'm almost considering building a replacement plane already after just 3 battery packs. $1 worth of foam board is no big deal...but it was quite a bit of time to cut and build so I'd rather put a bit more effort into making it last a bit longer
Here's the maiden - I tried to keep it low close and slow so it would show up on camera better - by far my best maiden yet!
The DYS 1806 with a 6x4.5 prop and 2s 450mah nanotech pack ran great. I was afraid I'd be wanting 3s power but the 2s did perfect, I think 3s would be overpowered on this guy.
Glad I messed up and printed a second set of plans by mistake - after I finish my scout I'll definitely build another one of these!
And now I've got one more reason to replace the 1806 motors on my acro quad...I like these DYS motors on planes a lot better than on my quads
So you may want to give that a try...
The jittering at start doesn't concern me quite as much - have you calibrated your ESC yet? You may just be starting with too low of a setting for that motor to run smoothly. Most brushless motors will stutter like that at very very low settings.
@ttprigg - I was thinking it could be a windshield...but it just doesn't look right any way I try to hold it on there. Maybe it was meant as a windshield but got abandoned.
I finally got mine out today and it flew great! My landings weren't very good but it handled them with grace and only took minimal damage. Few scuffs on the wings, and the wing slot is a bit longer now
Also knocked my wheel pants loose, but a few drops of hot glue and they'll be good as new.The only major issue I had was my bamboo skewers have really wallowed out the holes in the body. The pod was wrapped in tape so it's holes have held up fine, but the whole pod wobbles around in there like crazy now because the body holes took such a beating. I think on my next one I may install the fake motor pieces - but instead of gluing them to the skewers as shown in the video I'll glue them to the chassis as doublers. I may also put a bit of old gift card / hotel room key behind them to make sure the skewers can't work loose. Other than that the plane is great but the motor mounts got so torn up I'm almost considering building a replacement plane already after just 3 battery packs. $1 worth of foam board is no big deal...but it was quite a bit of time to cut and build so I'd rather put a bit more effort into making it last a bit longer
Here's the maiden - I tried to keep it low close and slow so it would show up on camera better - by far my best maiden yet!
The DYS 1806 with a 6x4.5 prop and 2s 450mah nanotech pack ran great. I was afraid I'd be wanting 3s power but the 2s did perfect, I think 3s would be overpowered on this guy.
Glad I messed up and printed a second set of plans by mistake - after I finish my scout I'll definitely build another one of these!
And now I've got one more reason to replace the 1806 motors on my acro quad...I like these DYS motors on planes a lot better than on my quads
1 question for you Jhitesma, will this plane fly straight and where you want it to? It looked like you were really fighting it to stay up. Were you doing that on purpose? I have the full size Speedster and it is more like I have to keep it from crashing more than fly where I want it to. Ever so slight wind really pushes it around. I bought the mini speed build kits for my son and I to put together and a he is not a very experienced pilot yet.
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