how do larger quads handle wind?

[jipp]

hey guys, im happy to say im feeling well enough to say i have flew for two days in a row.. woohoo, and i have gone through my 4 battery's and no crash's.. still hovering around, almost thought about walking the dog.. but i will hold off for a few more battery's.. i hope i keep feeling good enough to fly, it sure is fun!! and i need the repetitive practice which i just do not get when i fly one day and then feel blah so do not try to fly for a few more days.. that is just not gonna cut it for controlling these things.. you need daily practice. ( at least in rate mode )

anyhow, the question i had in my mind when i was hovering and a gust of wind blows through and the quad starts to compensate and can get a little erratic in what it will do.. sometimes it goes down in altitude more than not it just tilts one way or the other tho.

so im wondering would a larger heavy quad just shrug off wind? or would the surface area just act like a parachute

i decided i get out and fly before the wind was real strong. we sure are having a windy spring.. by this afternoon it will be to windy to fly. laughs i learn that yesterday, rock on. hope everyone gets to burn through a few battery's today.. sure makes all the learning you have to do for this hobby worth it.. its quite a good feeling to fly for some reason.
chris.

 

[cranialrectosis]

It depends on the shape of the copter and the gust of wind.

I find that adding a little ballast often allows my copters to 'cut' through the wind better. But, if I have a wide flat surface on my copter and a gust of wind catches that, it will make my copter 'floaty'.

The real key is that copters that are trying to hover in a stationary spot are ALWAYS impacted more by wind than if they are going somewhere.

 

[jipp]

It depends on the shape of the copter and the gust of wind.

I find that adding a little ballast often allows my copters to 'cut' through the wind better. But, if I have a wide flat surface on my copter and a gust of wind catches that, it will make my copter 'floaty'.

The real key is that copters that are trying to hover in a stationary spot are ALWAYS impacted more by wind than if they are going somewhere.

thanks, i guess that is why i noticed it so much,.. as that is all im really doing hovering and going around in a circle type hover.. i guess you know what i mean im sure that type of behavior is typical in hovering.

today im feeling pretty good. to bad this was/is not always the case. ( one day it would be cool to not have to live off pain meds, blah.. that is not gonna happen tho.. o well ) laughs.
chris.

 

[razor02097]

This is only a theory...I'm by no means an expert... I love physics problems though so

If the muli-rotor is struggling in the wind it may actually be too heavy. Weight may help the model cut through the wind but more weight will make the motors work more to keep the model in the air thereby reducing the amount of thrust that can be used for transitional flight (in this case compensation for high wind).

I played around with a toy multi-rotor the syma X5C-1 and since it is so light in higher wind the thing is like a kite... almost difficult to get down if you aren't in full transitioned flight.

I would love to hear your experience if you decide to try adding weight to see how the wind affects your copter.

 

[jipp]

This is only a theory...I'm by no means an expert... I love physics problems though so

If the muli-rotor is struggling in the wind it may actually be too heavy. Weight may help the model cut through the wind but more weight will make the motors work more to keep the model in the air thereby reducing the amount of thrust that can be used for transitional flight (in this case compensation for high wind).

I played around with a toy multi-rotor the syma X5C-1 and since it is so light in higher wind the thing is like a kite... almost difficult to get down if you aren't in full transitioned flight.

I would love to hear your experience if you decide to try adding weight to see how the wind affects your copter.

i have a zmr 250 frame. no FPV, no camera.. im runnig 1806 GemFan 6x3 1300mah 35-55C battery.

id think id be on the light side for this frame? i was thinking it could do with how flexible the gemfans are.. if i had stiffer props it would cut through the air?
i wish i had some gemfan 5x4 props.. to see if they would be more efficient than the 6x3.. lots of test could be done here. heh.
i do see how it could be interesting to someone who like physics tho.

chris.

 

[Ocean]

i have a zmr 250 frame. no FPV, no camera.. im runnig 1806 GemFan 6x3 1300mah 35-55C battery.

id think id be on the light side for this frame? i was thinking it could do with how flexible the gemfans are.. if i had stiffer props it would cut through the air?
i wish i had some gemfan 5x4 props.. to see if they would be more efficient than the 6x3.. lots of test could be done here. heh.
i do see how it could be interesting to someone who like physics tho.

chris.

These might help.

 

[jipp]

These might help.

hey cool, im glad i went with 6x3 instead of 6x4 props..

but still good info to have. i did order some of these indestructible props that are 6x4 but they are not as efficient as gem fans.. but thats not the point of them.. they do not break ?? so ill be ok running them.

cool stuff.

chris.

 

[Ocean]

hey cool, im glad i went with 6x3 instead of 6x4 props..

but still good info to have. i did order some of these indestructible props that are 6x4 but they are not as efficient as gem fans.. but thats not the point of them.. they do not break ?? so ill be ok running them.

cool stuff.

chris.

I ran some 6045s on my emaxs, I can now say none of them work anymore. The 6030 seem like the best prop for 1806s.

After seeing Brucey's review those indestructible props look really good, albeit not very efficient.

 

[finnen]

I'm going to guess that you use some kind of auto level mode? I find flying my 250 in auto level in windy condition to be somewhat annoying, with the constant corrections that you are talking about. But, when flying in acro mode my 250 is one of my least wind sensitive crafts. I'm not sure, because I don't have it anymore, but I believe my 550 quad with 9x5 props was slightly more sensible to wind than my 250, although I had the same experience with that regarding auto level.

If you were to fly a fully stabilized board with gps, compass and baro it might be different, but this is my experience with no frills FC's at least.

 

[jipp]

hi, nope.. i fly in rate/acro only like recommend. i want to learn to become a decent pilot one day. laughs.

chris.

 

[Robbie]

hi, nope.. i fly in rate/acro only like recommend. i want to learn to become a decent pilot one day. laughs.

chris.

Yeh you tell 'em Chris, can't be allowing autolevel noobes on the forums!!!!!!!

 

[jipp]

LOL, I did not mean it to sound mean or anything. just mean no, was in rate as recommend by the good pilots

i can say i fail when it comes english. bows in envy. if i would of known i would be communicating this way i think i wold of made a fuss about getting kicked out of 6th grade English class by Mrs. Chow.... for the year. laughs.
the hardest classes i had in college were english 101, and 102.. the rest were easy.

chris.

 

[SteevyT]

I built a tricopter based on David's V3 plans (although I 3D printed it because I can't really afford David's frame yet). I felt comfortable with it in 18mph wind with 25mph gusts. Hovering was at some goofy angle, but it didn't feel awful or out of control.

 

[jipp]

I built a tricopter based on David's V3 plans (although I 3D printed it because I can't really afford David's frame yet). I felt comfortable with it in 18mph wind with 25mph gusts. Hovering was at some goofy angle, but it didn't feel awful or out of control.

that is interesting, i did not even consider tri-coptors how they handle the wind compared to a quad. i wonder if the tail of a try helps stabilize them better in windy conditions?


no clue, but it is interesting to think about.

chris.

p.s

anyone know how much fpv camera/antenna + a gopro?

the weight for a go pro seems to be around:

gopro 4 - 73.99g

not sure about the fpv camera/antenna and wires etc.. im thinking ill try razors idea and see how it flys with extra weight.. Im thinking of testing it. i could use one of my empty pain bottles and fill it with balance of some type and then use my battery velcro strap to mount it ..

 

[jhitesma]

I ran some 6045s on my emaxs, I can now say none of them work anymore. The 6030 seem like the best prop for 1806s.

I've been running 6045's (Both FC and HQ) on my 1806 emax and 1806 DYS for almost a year (August of 2014 for the DYS and Sept for the emax) with no issues....and that includes plenty of flying in the 110F+ days we have here in the summer

I did notice they run noticeably cooler once I upgraded to the KISS esc's (which I know you're not a fan of) than with either the emax ESC's or BS12's with simonk or blheli.

Even after flying a full pack my motors are still way more comfortable to touch than say the door handle on my truck if it's been in the sun I can easily hold the motors for as long as I want and not feel discomfort...but opening my truck door I've been known to use my shirt as an oven mitt

The DYS motors don't seem to be holding up nearly as well as the emax - but I don't find that surprising as they were far worse out of the box than the emax motors. (louder, rougher, one didn't even move because it had iron filings jamming it up.)

I found I prefer the 5x4 HQ and even 5030 gemfans's to the 6030 (either HQ or gemfan) - but I still tend to fly the 6045's most of the time as I enjoy them most of all.

 

[jhitesma]

Back to the original topic....

I've flown my 230 acro, my knuckle, my 250 fpv and my mini hex all in 20-30mph winds just to see how they do.

They all have the power to fight the wind...but none of them are particularly fun to fly in the wind

I find I enjoy the 230 the most because it seems least affected by the wind. It's light weight and high power to weight ratio combined with minimal surface area seem to make it most immune to getting blown around.

The hex I expected to do better than it does - I figured with 6 2204 motors spinning 6045 props it would have plenty of power to overcome the wind. And while that's true - it doesn't mean that it's not affected by the wind since it's a bigger heavier setup with more surface area it just tends to get blown around more.

In steady winds that's no big deal - the power can overcome the wind and flying is no big deal. But we don't get steady sustained winds here very often. Instead it's usually gusty crazy winds that change direction and force nonstop. And in that kind of wind the extra power almost seems like a liability since when I correct for the wind the wind will often change before my corrections fully take effect and when they kick in...oops the wind has shifted and now my corrections are just making things worse

 

[jipp]

yeah if its metal.. i always am careful come summer 110F - 115F sure heats up metal like no other. heh.

yeah i should of explained our wind conditions better. as it is gusty like i mention but that could mean a lot of things.. when in fact you said it best.. gusts of wind come and go..

and maybe that is what i was having a problem with.. correcting the quad then the wind would change direction is probably what i was experience and failing to recognize it.
chris.

 

[jhitesma]

I really wish I could find more time to do some tests with position hold on Tau right now. There's upgraded code in git and with the winds this month it would be a good torture test Thankfully this killer project I've been working on at work is starting to near the finish line...at least for the bulk of my involvement. Still a few more weeks of minimal free time ... but at least by the time flitefest rolls around I should be able to relax and enjoy it

 

[ZoomNBoom]

You have steady winds, and gusts. No flying craft feels the steady wind its flying in. From its perspective, it just sees the earth move against the wind at a steady speed. So to counter that, you only need sufficient speed. And it helps (a lot) flying in acro mode, because autoleveling will become more like autodrifting in the wind. If you rely on GPS, it gets more complicated and may get a bit ugly with GPS control fighting the other sensors.

Then there are gusts; how they impact the craft will depend mostly on its mass and aerodynamic properties. In general, heavier will be better, and smaller surface area's will be better. Having a cg thats close to the 'aerodynamic center' (there, I invented a term! I guess the correct term is 'center of pressure') should also help prevent wind vane effects. And lastly, props count too, they will catch wind, especially if the relative wind comes from an angle above or below, so counter intuitively, smaller props will be better at handling gusts (assuming constant thrust).

 

[finnen]

ZoomNBoom: spot on =)

I don't have a lot of gusts, mostly steady wind. Any flying object is going to be affected by wind, there is no way around it, and gusts are the worst. I do feel more comfortable with my 250 than most of my other crafts (a mix of foam planes and some helis) in wind, but nothing is very fun to fly in excessive wind. But, with experience that threshold can be raised, so I guess my conclusion is to just keep practicing