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How to Make Plans?

#22
Here is a guy using Fusion 360 to model and slice the skin, then using mesh mixer to flatten it, then reimporting it to Fusion to Export as a DXF file for laser cutting, in reality you could import into inkscape for making PDF plans as well.


pretty simple workflow once you see it. he assumes you already have model to export, but those papercraft plans you posed have some pretty decent offsets to make sketches that you can loft a 3d model from inside 360.
 
#23
What would you use as reference to make the 2d shapes out of? Using 2d blueprints you would need to make a 3d model to make the 2d shapes from
Local fiend did this video for 3d printing, but you need a model for "master series" style plans too, the 2d nerdnic type methods are really difficult to do curved surfaces without reiterating shapes untill they work.


the papercraft plans he posted have offsets that would work for a "standoff scale" and are only limited by how accurate the original artist was when trying to replicate the spitfire. you could also get real historical offsets and go from there.
 

The Hangar

Fly harder!
Mentor
#24
Here is a guy using Fusion 360 to model and slice the skin, then using mesh mixer to flatten it, then reimporting it to Fusion to Export as a DXF file for laser cutting, in reality you could import into inkscape for making PDF plans as well.


pretty simple workflow once you see it. he assumes you already have model to export, but those papercraft plans you posed have some pretty decent offsets to make sketches that you can loft a 3d model from inside 360.
Thanks for sharing - would it work with sketchup do you think?
 
#28
What would you use as reference to make the 2d shapes out of? Using 2d blueprints you would need to make a 3d model to make the 2d shapes from
Was thinking of using the side elevation and the formers that you get with a3 view plans to create the 3d shape (like balsa models )then getting the 3D package to wrap a skin round it .
Then unwrap this skin back into 2d shapes to be cut out of foam.
Then build like nerdnic s corsair,except he didn't,t use CAD for the fuselage pieces ,just trial and error
https://www.nerdnic.com/content/2200mm-nncorsair-build#
 

Flitedesign 3d

Well-known member
#29
Was thinking of using the side elevation and the formers that you get with a3 view plans to create the 3d shape (like balsa models )then getting the 3D package to wrap a skin round it .
Then unwrap this skin back into 2d shapes to be cut out of foam.
Then build like nerdnic s corsair,except he didn't,t use CAD for the fuselage pieces ,just trial and error
https://www.nerdnic.com/content/2200mm-nncorsair-build#
The problem with designing master series in fusion is that as much as I know there is no way to unwrap curved loft (there is the sheet metal unwrap but you cant do loft in sheet metal) so the unwrapping has to be done in another software, Im using solidworks or meshmixer. But making traditional ft planes with no curved surfaces in fusion 360 is very possible
 
#30
Id imagine the workflow would be similar, but I dont think curved surfaces work without a extension in sketchup, however there are a couple options, Curviloft and Soapskin.

It looks like curviloft is the way to go, but i havnt worked either of them, and neither of them actually curve anything, just adds bunches of facets, which is the reason I moved to 360 anyway, nice smooth models without bogging down my machine...

once you have a model, then you need a way to talk to mesh-mixer, you could just get a STL exporter, but thats another plugin for sketchup,then you need a way to finish off the files into something printable or lasercuttable, inkscape is probably way to go for this.

But yeah, the workflow seems to be way simpler, and much more powerful and accurate of an end product, and less taxing on my poor laptop with Fusion.

While i started with sketchup, I now get why people say that its limited, and with fusion 360 being free for us hobbyists, and adding online cloud stuff, even if your computer cant run sketchup or fusion locally, you can use it, i can see them quickly capturing a huge portion of the 3d modeling software market. (and they have already)
 
#31
Hi
I am trying to find a 3D Package to create the 2d cut out shapes that can then be curved to make fuselage panels.
I have found some already made ones with cut out formers included but they aren’t very accurate when scaled up
https://ftforumx2.s3.amazonaws.com/2019/09/251948_ca68849575ab5a0ffb6b20f7ddba2836.pdf


http://from-paper.com/en/news/aviation/2581-models-by-marek-supermarine-spitfire-mk-viii-british-fig...

Using 3D drawings
https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/ww2planes/ww2-supermarine/79153/view/supermarine_spitfire_...

https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/ww2planes/ww2-yakovlev/46750/view/yakovlev_yak-3/

is it possible using fusion 360 to make the 2d shapes that can then be bent to make the fuselage pieces?
The posts above seem to suggest so but never used fusion 360 so would be interested in people's thoughts on this
Thanks
As a Fusion360 noob, it seems to me that it should be possible to use the sheetmetal function to make bent panels, but the bending parameters of DTFB that need to be input into Fusion360 might be the hold up.

My guess is that the tools that paper aircraft modelers use might be better suited to give you rough shapes of the exterior surface dimensions...and then you'd have to trim off edges to make things flush for butt joints to glue up.

I was curious about the same question...I was looking at building a large B-24, but I may just use a large reinforced box fuselage and then use paperboard for the curvy bits.
 
#32
Yeah, you could easily use the paper/metal folding tools to create smooth curves if you use enough faces. You would not have to get too crazy with the number of faces either. It would be easy enough to test, just create a faceted cylinder with a higher and higher number of polygons and test cut the unwrapped template on foamboard. Once you are happy with the results, just make sure to use the number of faces you like in your build.
 
#33
Hi
Thanks to everybody for,their input ,I have asked about this elsewhere and this is the best ideas I’ve seen.
Until now blender was the best alternative anyone had suggested
All I originally wanted to do was build a warbird that was scale but slightly easier than the master series way which is why when I saw those paper plans I jumped at it but having attempted to scale them up the errors just get too big.
Here’s my attempts if you’re bored.
https://forum.flitetest.com/index.p...om-paper-plane-plans.58986/page-4#post-562288

I was warned but didn’t listen as usual!
I think using the above ideas is now the way forward but have never used 3d software before,only just getting my head round Illustrator!
However as lock down is continuing for at least 3 more weeks here in the UK I’ve got plenty of time on my hands.
I only hope my PC can handle this software
 
#34
Ok,remember never done 3d modelling so be gentle
Have watched some of the clips above and...
Plan is to build an Me 109 ,Ialready have a nerdnic style wing built
1.Find a 3 view plan including formers and draw the formers and side elevation To scale,simplifying the formers and side elevation similar to paper plans so each section is a kind of annulus?
Could I use illustrator to do the drawing ,will I be able to import this to fusion 360?
2.use the videos above ,particularly local fiends to create the 3d shape , particularly using the loft tool from fusion
3. Export it to mesh mixer( is that free for modellers or is it part of fusion?) to flatten out the skin.
4. I use paper plans so would I just be able to print off and get cracking?
Or export to illustrator for printing?
 
#35
I use a QCAD in combination with Inkscape to create plane designs and skins. You may want to start with QCAD as the learning curve seems a little less steep. These drawing tools have great tutorials that will help you learn the fundamentals. Both tools have free editions for Linux and Windows.

As mentioned by others, Nerdnic has an incredible set of tutorials that will really get you started. Best of luck and happy designing.
 
#36
Hi
Before I stArt drawing plans in illustrator,it seems there might be a problem uploading them to fusion in terms of scaling.
Wonder if I might be better to just use fusion.
Any thoughts?
 
#37
Hi
I now know how to use an image and scale it ,call this part 1

This is my image
https://web.ipmsusa3.org/sites/defa...ls---book-decals/kagerobf-109a-dprofiles1.jpg
I know it has no top view but I already have a nerdnic wing built so I only want to design the fuselage for now.

What I now want to do is sketch each of the formers from this sketch ( using 360 splinetoolswhich I’m ok with )without having to do part 1 for each former but not sure where to save part 1 in order to do this.
Now all this is sketching ,not bodies or components.
To me the there is only 1 body here ,the finished 3d fuselage,which could then be a component of the final design if I decide to add on my nerdnic wing later??

I know fusion is top down but have a feeling I,m working bottom up .
I need some help organising the workflow,if anyone can help please.
Thanks
 
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Flitedesign 3d

Well-known member
#38
Hi
I now know how to use an image and scale it ,call this part 1

This is my image
https://web.ipmsusa3.org/sites/defa...ls---book-decals/kagerobf-109a-dprofiles1.jpg
I know it has no top view but I already have a nerdnic wing built so I only want to design the fuselage for now.

What I now want to do is sketch each of the formers from this sketch ( using 360 splinetoolswhich I’m ok with )without having to do part 1 for each former but not sure where to save part 1 in order to do this.
Now all this is sketching ,not bodies or components.
To me the there is only 1 body here ,the finished 3d fuselage,which could then be a component of the final design if I decide to add on my nerdnic wing later??

I know fusion is top down but have a feeling I,m working bottom up .
I need some help organising the workflow,if anyone can help please.
Thanks
You should do one "master sketch" where you draw all the formers with the spline tool (obviously draw only half of each one and mirror them) and after that you select one former at a time and copy it by ctrl+c then you exit the sketch and go paste in the particular sketch where the former belongs. So you want to make construction planes with the offset plane tool for every former you want to make. Then you make a sketch for each plane and paste the correct former there. Remember when you paste the sketch from another one it will hold its place so you will have to move every sketch in its place after placing it. I put a reference picture where you can see how each sketch has its own plane
 

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Monte.C

Legendary member
#39
There is a paper folding plugin for sketchup floating around out there somewhere. It only works on faces though. Not actual lofts or curves.

@DamoRC used that plugin and sketchup to make a lot of great designs.
I was using SketchUp 10 or 12 years ago and I'm about to get back in for 3D modeling planes. Seems to me I'll be constructing curves as needed by extruding circles or ellipses, so the extrusions will actually be many-faceted faces, not curves. Should have no trouble unfolding that.
 

Monte.C

Legendary member
#40
The question of how to print from Autocad came up in another thread, so I'll just put this out there.
I know my way around Cad as well as anybody. If you're working in Autocad and have things you want to print but don't know how to do it right, I'll be happy to help you set up in paperspace to print at scale to pdf. Just let me know.

Fusion360 sounds pretty awesome. For me most of my work is in Cad but my next design is of many flat facets and angles to represent a curved fuse like you guys do with jet fighters, so I'll take my Cad work into SketchUp to model the fuse, then unfold and take it back to cad to finish it and set up to plot.
 
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