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Indecise about frame for long range..

#1
I'm new to DIY and was thinking about building a long range FPV, I was looking for some frames on Aliexpress and found out this Andy hd8 350mm, wich seens a pretty good option for FPV as there will be no propeller in front of the camera, and if everything go right I would use a gimbal with some action cam, I know, It will become quite heavy but I would be using some 6000mAh+ battery so I could get a smaller one, but anyway, the only problem that I see is that this frame use DJI Mavic Pro motor, and I haven't found any other info about it (aside some project where the drone got absurd flight time with same motor).

Or should I get a XL9 390mm frame and some 2306 motor (or smaller) and maybe get better results (and yes I would also consider a gimbal)..

Aside from de frame and motor, I would use f722s control module with 50a ESC, GPS M8N w/ stand, Frsky Q X7 with r9m module and r9 Slim+ receiver, and the VTX transmitter I was thinking about this 5.8g 1W iFlight, but I'm very doubtful about the claimed 10km+ range considering the frequency that it operates.. And the camera would be anything with 1200tvl or more.
 
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evranch

Well-known member
#2
Your links require login and I don't have an account. However I did search the hd8 350mm and it indeed has mounts for the DJI Mavic Pro motors! I had to fabricate my own custom arm ends to use these! My frame can fly about 30 minutes using them and a 7700mAh 3s.

These are great motors. Very efficient and folding props have a number of benefits especially in the 8" size. You can buy them cheap on Ebay as a refurb. You are limited to running on 3s though, since you are stuck with one prop size. And you will never mount them to another frame unless you make your own arm ends, since they have a different bolt pattern.

The frame itself looks a little flimsy, arms are very long and I'd be concerned about vibration or snapping them in a crash. Also if you load the frame down with a big battery, gimbal etc. remember all the weight is resting on these slim arms. For $30 I'd be tempted to give one a try though since I have a spare set of Mavic motors here.

You are right to doubt a 10km+ range on 5.8, remember that the curvature of the earth will cut off the signal before you can get that far. 5.8 requires direct line of sight.
 

FDS

Well-known member
#3
I wouldn’t touch FRsky right now, their firmware is a mess. Get a Jumper T16 and TBS Crossfire Lite, it’s way better. The Jumper T16 is superior to the QX7 in every respect.
 
#4
Your links require login and I don't have an account. However I did search the hd8 350mm and it indeed has mounts for the DJI Mavic Pro motors! I had to fabricate my own custom arm ends to use these! My frame can fly about 30 minutes using them and a 7700mAh 3s.

These are great motors. Very efficient and folding props have a number of benefits especially in the 8" size. You can buy them cheap on Ebay as a refurb. You are limited to running on 3s though, since you are stuck with one prop size. And you will never mount them to another frame unless you make your own arm ends, since they have a different bolt pattern.

The frame itself looks a little flimsy, arms are very long and I'd be concerned about vibration or snapping them in a crash. Also if you load the frame down with a big battery, gimbal etc. remember all the weight is resting on these slim arms. For $30 I'd be tempted to give one a try though since I have a spare set of Mavic motors here.

You are right to doubt a 10km+ range on 5.8, remember that the curvature of the earth will cut off the signal before you can get that far. 5.8 requires direct line of sight.
Uh I forgot that Aliexpress now require login to access the pages, but I fixed the links.

And this is my main concern, I would need to buy "dedicated" parts just for this frame (motor and 3s battery) that wouldn't work well if I decided to use another frame, so this is my main problem with this frame, and about vibration.. I didn't thought about this, but I hope that this is minimal, principally with some considerable weight.

About the VTX transmitter, I found another one that is a 2w beast (but the temperature and power consumption is absurd on 2W), I saw a video about the Akk Fx2 Ultimate and in line of sight with helical antenna on receiver side and got more than 26km so I guess that it's more than great for me.
 
#5
I wouldn’t touch FRsky right now, their firmware is a mess. Get a Jumper T16 and TBS Crossfire Lite, it’s way better. The Jumper T16 is superior to the QX7 in every respect.
Agree but for me it's expensive.. That' why I'm choosing Q X7 + R9m.
 

evranch

Well-known member
#6
I wouldn’t touch FRsky right now, their firmware is a mess. Get a Jumper T16 and TBS Crossfire Lite, it’s way better. The Jumper T16 is superior to the QX7 in every respect.
Is FRSky firmware an issue with the R9, or is it just the ACCST/ACCESS mess?

I haven't bought a new FRSky RX in awhile, but I recently updated my TX to the latest firmware and nothing bad happened with ACCST or R9. I have a Taranis X9D+ and all ACCST receivers other than my R9 stuff.

@Chriexpe I like being able to fly 3s batteries as most of my fixed wing planes are running 3s. YMMV depending what other aircraft you have. If I was building only quads I'd probably think about going 4s or even 6s.

Dedicated bolt pattern is definitely an issue, but if you get the motors cheap enough who cares is kind of my opinion. And the frame is only $30! You can get aftermarket DJI 8330 props really cheap as well. These are a very good long range motor/prop option. I have not tried freestyle flying with them though, I'm not sure how a folding prop would hold up. If you are just cruising I would seriously consider them.

Your linked absurd flight time drone is flying 3s3p 16850s which are an option due to the very low draw of these motors. Mine can hover at only 9-10A. Lithium ions are very light and energy dense, but have low continuous currents. I'm currently working on building a pack out of them for my quad.
 
#8
@Chriexpe Crossfire Lite and a Jumper T16 is actually about the same price. Jumper T16 will also run R9M. It’s a way better radio all round than the QX7.
Sorry but on Aliexpress it cost $50 more than QX7, so for me it's quite expensive buying it and I don't know if worth this extra for the same functionality (buttons and switches).
 

FDS

Well-known member
#9
It’s a way better radio, screen is better, no Access/ACCST bullshit, crossfire ready out the box and a multi protocol module inbuilt that will run ANY major brands receivers. There’s a pro version with Hall Effect gimbals, that might be the one you are looking at. I would recommend buying gear from a hobby seller not Aliexpress/Banggood as you will then have proper customer service and after sales, plus you support hobby businesses that often give back via sponsorship and events.
 

evranch

Well-known member
#10
Consider the Jumper should come with the 4-in-1 module as well, which lets you bind almost anything. Spektrum receivers, Orange/LemonRX, FlySky RX, toy quads, RTF foamies, etc.

I believe that module is worth $40-50 or so so take that into consideration if you ever want to use Spektrum equipment or the cheap FlySky and Lemon receivers.

I know I kind of wish I had it because for awhile it was hard to get FrSky RX in Canada, while there is a pile of FlySky and Lemons sitting at the local store.
 
#12
@Chriexpe I like being able to fly 3s batteries as most of my fixed wing planes are running 3s. YMMV depending what other aircraft you have. If I was building only quads I'd probably think about going 4s or even 6s.

Dedicated bolt pattern is definitely an issue, but if you get the motors cheap enough who cares is kind of my opinion. And the frame is only $30! You can get aftermarket DJI 8330 props really cheap as well. These are a very good long range motor/prop option. I have not tried freestyle flying with them though, I'm not sure how a folding prop would hold up. If you are just cruising I would seriously consider them.

Your linked absurd flight time drone is flying 3s3p 16850s which are an option due to the very low draw of these motors. Mine can hover at only 9-10A. Lithium ions are very light and energy dense, but have low continuous currents. I'm currently working on building a pack out of them for my quad.
Hmm seems that the nominal voltage of the motors is 11.1v, so I would need a 3s battery, and as the current needed will be lower than 30a I would be able to get a less expensive control module/ESC combo (like this one) and 30c battery (6000mAh, just hope that the 2w VTX don't drain it quickly).
 
#13
It’s a way better radio, screen is better, no Access/ACCST bullshit, crossfire ready out the box and a multi protocol module inbuilt that will run ANY major brands receivers. There’s a pro version with Hall Effect gimbals, that might be the one you are looking at. I would recommend buying gear from a hobby seller not Aliexpress/Banggood as you will then have proper customer service and after sales, plus you support hobby businesses that often give back via sponsorship and events.
I can't find the normal version anywhere, only Pro with Hall gimbal
 

evranch

Well-known member
#14
Hmm seems that the nominal voltage of the motors is 11.1v, so I would need a 3s battery, and as the current needed will be lower than 30a I would be able to get a less expensive control module/ESC combo (like this one) and 30c battery (6000mAh, just hope that the 2w VTX don't drain it quickly).
I'm running a similar stack with these motors, just not from Ali. Mine is a HGLRC and my VTX is on the stack as well. I think it's a 40A ESC. Max total draw at full throttle is ~30A.

2W is really kind of excessive for a VTX, it will be running super hot. I'll give you the standard ham radio advice - money spent on power is better spent on antennas. Get a good directional patch for your goggles before you start trying to pump 2W of video power. (By the way, these powerful VTXs are totally illegal if you don't have your ham license)
 
#16
2W is really kind of excessive for a VTX, it will be running super hot. I'll give you the standard ham radio advice - money spent on power is better spent on antennas. Get a good directional patch for your goggles before you start trying to pump 2W of video power. (By the way, these powerful VTXs are totally illegal if you don't have your ham license)
2w is just to make sure that I won't loose signal if the drone get behind some tree or whatever, and yes it get 90°C+ when running at 2w. About law, where I live there's no regulation about this (I mean, no one care here) so I won't bother about...

About the antennas, this is quite complex but I'm thinking about using Pagoda 2 both on drone and and receiver, with Crosshair (was between it and helical but everyone says that Crosshair is better).
 
#17
About the controller, I think that I'll be sticking with RadioMaster TX16S, same company that worked on Jumper T16 and will come with some improvements costing way less (around $130)..
 

LitterBug

Troll Spammer
#18
I have a Flight Test FT270 started for my long range quad. I've been doing more wings recently since they are WAY more efficient for long range and haven't finished the 270 yet.

I have the FrSky R9 gear on an X9D+ with Hall gimbals, pre-cluster mess and am sticking with the stable year old firmware without much thought about going to their newer gear or firmware. The latest firmware may not be compatible with my alternate recievers.... FrSky has really, well.... They took a really good platform and put a bunch of nonsensical upgrades and such to make their mostly open source system more closed and not so friendly and compatible like it used to be. It should be plausible for the older hardware to run the newer gear with some limitations, but they have even made some of the new features that should work with no issue on their old hardware not work either. REALLY not pleased with their path... to be polite.

Cheers!
LitterBug
 
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FDS

Well-known member
#19
The RadioMaster T16S looked really good. It would be super funny if it’s a “clone” of the Jumper T16 after all the fuss about that radio! It will work just as well as the Jumper version I suspect.
 

Aireal Anarchist

Well-known member
#20
Agree but for me it's expensive.. That' why I'm choosing Q X7 + R9m.
Frsky and its hardware/fimware issues is very confusing ......
I just went thru this same scenario, I even returned one transmitter to avoid firmware and incompatibility issues I was so confused and opted for the QX7 ACCST version from rotor logic .....there are a ton of "How to Videos" on YTube for the ACCST version and it IS compatible with the 2019 red version of the R9M long range module, I didnt need to fool around with flashing firmware just go directly to the setup follow the setup directions and your good to go
 
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