• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.

KK2 - Gain settings

#1
Hi-

Built a quad anycopter and having a hard time with dialing in and making the quad stable.

Looking for a couple different profiles, one for stable flight to shoot video and one for more fun flying.

Would anyone mind sharing their PID and Stick Scaling numbers?
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
#4
I do have an Anycopter running 1000 kv motors and 1045 rotors in an X config. When I had the KK2 on it the settings changed dramatically whenever I changed the lengths of the booms and when I went from 1450 kv and 8045s to the heavier set up. Tuning PID is a VERY personal thing. Every copter is different. As you develop as a pilot your settings will change.

If you use mine, your copter won't fly to its potential and neither will you. Don't cheat yourself. Take the time to tune PI yourself for your copter.

That said, if you post video and your settings we will help you tune your board.

Remember to always tune PI in acro mode.
 
#5
Hi Crainial-

I do understand what you're saying. I've been flying and tuning and quite get something figured out.

I am running with the Turnigy 1360kv motors that are part of the FT recommendations. Here are my settings.

Aileron/Elevator
P Gain: 17
P Limit: 80
I Gain: 0
I Limit: 20

Rudder
P Gain: 50
P Limit: 20
I Gain: 10
I Limit: 10

Stick Scaling
Roll: 25
Pitch: 25
Yaw: 60
Throttle: 60

When I am at low speeds and I do a right rudder turn, the quad will dip it's right arms down and want to almost flip the left side over. So instead of yawing, it'll want to flip. That's the behavior that we're trying to trim out.

Thanks for the help.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
#6
Are you running with rubber bands over your rotors on those 1360kv motors or are you using some type of collet or prop nut?

I gain at 0 will make for a VERY tough to fly copter. VERY VERY VERY hard to fly.

Are you flying with autolevel on or off?
 
#8
The ESCs are the Turnigy(http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__714__711__Multi_Rotors_Parts-Speed_Controllers.html)
- I am not running Simon K on the ESCs.

The motors are the Turnigy Park 300 and I am using the silver bulleted prop nut that comes with it.

They were in the recommended parts.

My understanding of the I Gain is that it controls the wandering nature of the quad. We started at 0 and then went up in +5 increments trying to get rid of the wandering. What number would you recommend we test at?

We adjust the gains with in acro mode. We're flying in Autolevel when is does that slow speed flip/flop.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
#9
Autolevel won't work right until P and I are tuned. I am not surprised you are having trouble with the I gain at 0.

You set I AFTER you set P. Once you set P you can set I and I can impact P (allow you to go a touch higher). For an acro quad, you want the highest P gain you can set.

The first steps in tuning P and I are the hardest. You are going to make your copter almost unflyable on purpose so do this where you can chop throttle and not destroy your copter.

All of this is done in acro mode.

BE VERY CAREFUL HERE. If you go too high on P the copter can rise while you are reducing throttle and can easily gain 20 or 30 ft before you chop throttle and the copter falls. I have to go to P of 150 to do this, but you may encounter this earlier depending on your build. If you increase by 10 and don't get greedy, this is not likely to be an issue, but fly over soft ground just in case.

For aileron and elevator Set P gain to 30, P limit to 100, I gain to 0, I limit to 20. For yaw set P gain to 50, P limit to 20, I gain to 0 and I limit to 10.

The copter should fly but not well. Increase P limit on A and E by increments of 10 until you see the copter make rapid oscillations. Once you see (or hear in the motors) the fast oscillation, back it off by 2 or 5 until it is gone. My anycopter usually ends up with a P gain around 70 but again, I run Simon K.

Once you have P set, increase I gain to 50% of P. Mine usually end up in the 30s (Simon K again).

If after you set I gain you see a wobble in acro mode, reduce it by 2 and try again.

This should help lock in your copter.

Let me know how this goes and if you shoot video it will help us troubleshoot any remaining issues.
 
#10
Autolevel is actually flying fine...at least to my understanding of how it should function. If I give it some aileron, then center the stick, the quad will level itself out.

The way you describe the tuning process is how I started it out. I'll go back out and try starting at your suggested numbers though.

Are the Turnigy ESCs I have, Simon K flashable? You have a good link for that?
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
#11
Multistar ESCs are notorious for problems. Most on this forum will suggest you toss them and buy modern hardware.

Autolevel masks PI tuning issues. Once PI is tuned Autolevel has no issues to mask.

Autolevel makes it harder to tune PI and therefore makes it harder to fly IF you have the skill to fly in acro mode. It is a catch 22.
 
#12
What ESCs would you recommend?

I'll still try to head out and tweaks the gains. A little windy today. Thanks for all of your help/feedback. I'll let you know what I get.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
#13
Not sure where you are, but native Simon K requires no flashing.

I the US I would look at Altitude Hobbies or MultiRotor Super Store or Ready to Fly Quads to source Simon K ESCs. I have ESCs from Altitude and MRSS on 4 copters in my hangar today.

Many people get the Multistars to work. But, without Simon K you are likely to end up with much lower P gains and therefore much less precise control of your copter. This can be ok for a big quad carrying a camera where you fly slow hovers with minimal stick movements. But who assembles a quad with the dream of flying a Buick?

Gains take patience. After a year of building and flying, I can do a KK2 in about 20 minutes, a MW in about 2 hours. When I started out with my first Anycopter hex it took me 2 days to do a KK2 and I still only got it halfway. A big chunk is being able to fly in acro mode with 0 I gain. Based on your earlier post showing 0 I gain, I'd say you have a great start on the hardest part.
 
#15
Hi Crainial-

Went through your recommended steps and this is what I ended up at:

Aileron/Elevator
P Gain: 25
P Limit: 100
I Gain: 7
I Limit: 20

Rudder
P Gain: 50
P Limit: 20
I Gain: 0
I Limit: 10

Stick Scaling
Roll: 25
Pitch: 25
Yaw: 70
Throttle: 60

However, now I can't get any rudder response. It's really slow or mushy in it's turn. Got any ideas?
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
#16
Stick scaling determines how quickly the copter will respond to your commands.

I would start with something closer to:
Roll: 30
Pitch: 30
Yaw: 60
Throttle: 90

I am surprised you don't have the P Gains higher. I typically can get up to 80 or 90 for Aileron/Elevator and maybe a touch higher for Rudder before I see the copter start that high frequency wobble and I need to back it down a touch. Even without Simon K, I think you can go higher and that you will want to.

What firmware are you running and which version of the KK2 are you running, the 2.0 or the 2.1.5?