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Solved Operator ID

#1
I am 14, in the UK and have taken the online proficiency test which I thought to give me a right to fly my models providing I had the Operator ID number labelled in/on the plane. However, I think because of my age, I have not been given/cannot find an operator ID number to put in my plane. I. Think this means that I have to fly with another registered operator over 16 whilst I fly my models which is annoying but fine. However, I am confused as to whether I need to still display an operator ID number on my plane and if so, whose it should be as it may be different people who I fly with.
 

quorneng

Well-known member
#2
Ollie
The Operator number is only issue to over 18's. You as a minor have to display an operators ID number on any planes you fly. He is then the responsible adult if anything goes wrong.
The regulations states:
"An unmanned aircraft operator's responsibilities cover not only their own flights (where they are also the remote pilot), but also the flights that another person - the remote pilot - makes with that operator's aircraft"
This suggest you may have to change the number displayed on your plane to match that of which ever operator is accepting the legal responsibility for that flight.
The regulations also state:
"It is important for the operator to take care to put in place sufficient management oversight for all flights, for which they are responsible."
It does not specifically state the Operator must be present for each flight but it might be hard to demonstrate he was properly executing his 'oversight' if he was not.
 
#3
Ollie
The Operator number is only issue to over 18's. You as a minor have to display an operators ID number on any planes you fly. He is then the responsible adult if anything goes wrong.
The regulations states:
"An unmanned aircraft operator's responsibilities cover not only their own flights (where they are also the remote pilot), but also the flights that another person - the remote pilot - makes with that operator's aircraft"
This suggest you may have to change the number displayed on your plane to match that of which ever operator is accepting the legal responsibility for that flight.
The regulations also state:
"It is important for the operator to take care to put in place sufficient management oversight for all flights, for which they are responsible."
It does not specifically state the Operator must be present for each flight but it might be hard to demonstrate he was properly executing his 'oversight' if he was not.
OK, so how do you go about getting another operator ID for somebody that will be there with me when I fly, but do not actually fly themselves, they will just be the 'operator' for legal reasons.
 

IanSR

Active member
#4
I thought the operator ID could be issued to an over 13 with parental consent? Or is that the Flyer ID?

This is stupidly confusing, get your Mum or Dad to register as the operator for the nine quid and slap their number on the craft, they don't need to be with you when you fly iirc, the ANO is written very ambiguously, and deliberately so, it basically says the model must display a valid operator ID, and the person flying the model must be in receipt of a Flyer ID to prove competency, the operator must satisfy themselves the flyer is in possession of the adequate competency and be happy to take legal responsibility should anything go wrong but is not required to be present at the time of flying.

That is my interpretation, but don't take it as gospel.

It might be worth seeing if there is a local club near you, BMFA or otherwise, and see if you can join that, most BMFA flying sites are on private property and most, like ours, are out in the middle of nowhere so won't fall foul of the new EASA regs coming in July (150m seperation required for all but the smallest models), you might not be too happy at the thought of joining a club, but bear in mind unless you live out in the sticks, the old bill are looking for people to make examples of regarding these new regs now, if you're in a club you'll at least have the mob protection of a club rather than be a single person flying a "drone" at the park.

Police have been turning up at club sites thanks to the BMFA being so open about their locations with a handy "places to try model flying" map online, but they are soon realising the one group of people who won't be breaking the law are club members so scuttling off with their tales between their legs pretty quickly.

Or you could just say screw it and risk flying without any of it depending on where you live and how friendly your local coppers are.
 
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#5
I thought the operator ID could be issued to an over 13 with parental consent? Or is that the Flyer ID?

This is stupidly confusing, get your Mum or Dad to register as the operator for the nine quid and slap their number on the craft, they don't need to be with you when you fly iirc, the ANO is written very ambiguously, and deliberately so, it basically says the model must display a valid operator ID, and the person flying the model must be in receipt of a Flyer ID to prove competency, the operator must satisfy themselves the flyer is in possession of the adequate competency and be happy to take legal responsibility should anything go wrong but is not required to be present at the time of flying.

That is my interpretation, but don't take it as gospel.

It might be worth seeing if there is a local club near you, BMFA or otherwise, and see if you can join that, most BMFA flying sites are on private property and most, like ours, are out in the middle of nowhere so won't fall foul of the new EASA regs coming in July (150m seperation required for all but the smallest models), you might not be too happy at the thought of joining a club, but bear in mind unless you live out in the sticks, the old bill are looking for people to make examples of regarding these new regs now, if you're in a club you'll at least have the mob protection of a club rather than be a single person flying a "drone" at the park.

Police have been turning up at club sites thanks to the BMFA being so open about their locations with a handy "places to try model flying" map online, but they are soon realising the one group of people who won't be breaking the law are club members so scuttling off with their tales between their legs pretty quickly.

Or you could just say screw it and risk flying without any of it depending on where you live and how friendly your local coppers are.
That has made I a lot clearer now. I have spent 9 pounds on my flyer ID and insurance as a Junior member of the BMFA. I just need to spend 9 more pounds on getting a responsible adult to become an operator who decides I am proficient to fly whilst they are not there.
I am already part of a club but it is out of order as the whole field is boggy due to rain so I am flying Ina public field, or was until these laws put a hault to it. I'm pretty desperate to get this sorted as I have 2 new planes to try but I think I can sort it now as this makes sense.
 

IanSR

Active member
#6
That has made I a lot clearer now. I have spent 9 pounds on my flyer ID and insurance as a Junior member of the BMFA. I just need to spend 9 more pounds on getting a responsible adult to become an operator who decides I am proficient to fly whilst they are not there.
I am already part of a club but it is out of order as the whole field is boggy due to rain so I am flying Ina public field, or was until these laws put a hault to it. I'm pretty desperate to get this sorted as I have 2 new planes to try but I think I can sort it now as this makes sense.
The flyer id is free (you just either take the test via the CAA site or the BMFA one - the BMFA one is easier and less questions). , it's the operator id that costs £9, let's back up a moment and don't be in a hurry to pay anybody another £9 just yet...

Who did you pay the £9 to and what for?

Couple points:
As a present BMFA member you are exempt from the Operator ID registration and display requirements until the 20th February (at least), you just need to print the CAA exemption and your BMFA membership and carry those with you.

Similarly, you are also exempt from taking the CAA Flyer ID test until the same period if you have done a BMFA test, such as an A, or their new RCC test, again you print the CAA exemption and your RCC pass certificate and carry them with you, we have been assured by the BMFA that all Police forces have been briefed over what these docs are and what they mean so there should be no problems.

So there is no reason why you can't fly now.

Also, Olli = Oliver? Flooded field? My clubs is flooded too, you wouldn't happen to be in Surrey would you?
 
#7
The flyer id is free (you just either take the test via the CAA site or the BMFA one - the BMFA one is easier and less questions). , it's the operator id that costs £9, let's back up a moment and don't be in a hurry to pay anybody another £9 just yet...

Who did you pay the £9 to and what for?

Couple points:
As a present BMFA member you are exempt from the Operator ID registration and display requirements until the 20th February (at least), you just need to print the CAA exemption and your BMFA membership and carry those with you.

Similarly, you are also exempt from taking the CAA Flyer ID test until the same period if you have done a BMFA test, such as an A, or their new RCC test, again you print the CAA exemption and your RCC pass certificate and carry them with you, we have been assured by the BMFA that all Police forces have been briefed over what these docs are and what they mean so there should be no problems.

So there is no reason why you can't fly now.

Also, Olli = Oliver? Flooded field? My clubs is flooded too, you wouldn't happen to be in Surrey would you?
The 9 pounds I payed was I think for the Insurance with BMFA. That was when I was given the only 'ID' that I have - the membership number. After taking this online test, nothing was actually sent to me about being an operator or even proof that I had done the test or that I can find.
Also, my name is Ollie and no, I am over Warwickshire way.
 

IanSR

Active member
#8
Ok @OlliePackman, I thought you might be the new kid in our club, your description of the flying site conditions was spot on to ours lol.

Something still isn't right though, junior membership of the BMFA is £17 (£13 if tied to a parent), so if you paid £9 then maybe go back and check what it was for (or ask your club membership secretary to check, they should be able to see your membership on the BMFA portal and confirm what you've paid for).

The only £9 anybody is paying to the BMFA is for the Operator ID, and nobody yet has received one because they are not transferring the data to the CAA until later this week, then if you've paid the £9 to the BMFA, they will pass that on to the CAA and the CAA will email our Operator ID's out to us shortly after. So double check what you have paid for and make sure you haven't inadvertently paid the CAA Operator ID fee to the BMFA, that shouldn't be possible because you're a junior member, but you never know, if that has happened (you can see on the portal what is "active", if you have the CAA portion active then you paid for it), call the BMFA and explain what has happened, they should be able to sort it out for you. It's what they are there for after all.

Regarding the Flyer ID and the BMFA RCC test, when you passed this test you should have received an email which had a link in to download the certificate, download it, then upload it to the achievements sections of the BMFA portal, a few days later someone at the BMFA will authorise the achievement. Then go back in and re-print your membership certificate, on it now you will see RCC under achievements, that means you do not need a Flyer ID, just print off the CAA exemption from the BMFA.uk site, staple that to your BMFA membership certificate that has RCC under achievements, and this is your authorised alternative to the Flyer ID, carry it with you blah blah.

If in doubt just call the BMFA and ask what to do, they are very good and well versed with people not understanding these new regulations and walking them through it, our club chairman had to get them to send him the RCC test in written form because he "don't do computers", so someone else not understanding what is what isn't going to be an issue.

At the very least don't panic just yet, just print off all the CAA exemptions from the BMFA website, get the RCC certificate sorted and re-print your membership and you are good to fly "in compliance with the ANO" until the 20th Feb without an Operator ID anyway. Just find out what the £9 was for before paying it again, I know some guys who paid it three times (to CAA, to BMFA and to FPVuK) before they realised they only had to pay it once.
 
#9
Ok @OlliePackman, I thought you might be the new kid in our club, your description of the flying site conditions was spot on to ours lol.

Something still isn't right though, junior membership of the BMFA is £17 (£13 if tied to a parent), so if you paid £9 then maybe go back and check what it was for (or ask your club membership secretary to check, they should be able to see your membership on the BMFA portal and confirm what you've paid for).

The only £9 anybody is paying to the BMFA is for the Operator ID, and nobody yet has received one because they are not transferring the data to the CAA until later this week, then if you've paid the £9 to the BMFA, they will pass that on to the CAA and the CAA will email our Operator ID's out to us shortly after. So double check what you have paid for and make sure you haven't inadvertently paid the CAA Operator ID fee to the BMFA, that shouldn't be possible because you're a junior member, but you never know, if that has happened (you can see on the portal what is "active", if you have the CAA portion active then you paid for it), call the BMFA and explain what has happened, they should be able to sort it out for you. It's what they are there for after all.

Regarding the Flyer ID and the BMFA RCC test, when you passed this test you should have received an email which had a link in to download the certificate, download it, then upload it to the achievements sections of the BMFA portal, a few days later someone at the BMFA will authorise the achievement. Then go back in and re-print your membership certificate, on it now you will see RCC under achievements, that means you do not need a Flyer ID, just print off the CAA exemption from the BMFA.uk site, staple that to your BMFA membership certificate that has RCC under achievements, and this is your authorised alternative to the Flyer ID, carry it with you blah blah.

If in doubt just call the BMFA and ask what to do, they are very good and well versed with people not understanding these new regulations and walking them through it, our club chairman had to get them to send him the RCC test in written form because he "don't do computers", so someone else not understanding what is what isn't going to be an issue.

At the very least don't panic just yet, just print off all the CAA exemptions from the BMFA website, get the RCC certificate sorted and re-print your membership and you are good to fly "in compliance with the ANO" until the 20th Feb without an Operator ID anyway. Just find out what the £9 was for before paying it again, I know some guys who paid it three times (to CAA, to BMFA and to FPVuK) before they realised they only had to pay it once.
That's right. It wasn't 9 it was 27 pound which was payed to the BMFA. I have also printed my certificate off for the operator I'd already so I have actually done everything I can except get my parents operator I'd sorted and on my plane.
 

quorneng

Well-known member
#10
It is worth noting that the CAA regulations also note the possibility of an organisation (BMFA?) or an individual club being considered the 'operator' but they then shoot down the proposal as being very unlikely, however does the fact it is even mentioned leave the door open in the future for what would be an eminently practical solution.
You never know.
 

IanSR

Active member
#11
It is worth noting that the CAA regulations also note the possibility of an organisation (BMFA?) or an individual club being considered the 'operator' but they then shoot down the proposal as being very unlikely, however does the fact it is even mentioned leave the door open in the future for what would be an eminently practical solution.
You never know.
Some small clubs have already done this especially if they have club models, it's a bit like a lot of stuff in the ANO, not punishable other than by a stern telling off and they're simply relying on a persons honesty to comply with it. I know some guy who said he was going to register his models in his dogs name, just like he has his car, but I don't know if he did or not.

@OlliePackman
Don't forget that for your Flyer ID exemption to be valid you need to upload the certificate to the BMFA membership portal and have it authorised.

Regarding the Operator ID, you just need someone over 18 to act as the responsible adult, so that could be an older sibling, mum, dad, crazy uncle etc. Of course if that person already has an Operator ID because they are the person who got you into flying in the first place, they technically don't need a second one and if they're happy can stick their OID on your craft (this is what I will do with my sons plane, and just do it with writing on masking tape under the battery flap, no need to be super technical) either way whoever you get to act as the responsible adult, if they don't have one just get them to register direct with the CAA and pay the £9 to them direct, they don't need to be a member of the BMFA.

You've highlighted the big elephant in the room flaw in this whole system, plus of course there is presently no way for a Police Officer to verify that an Operator ID is registered to the person claiming it is theirs, they can only verify whether it's a valid Operator ID or not, you could drive a bus through the system tbh and in a lot of areas, I can see it'll eventually be a case of the club secretary having to Police it because the local coppers don't have the resources to.
 
#12
Some small clubs have already done this especially if they have club models, it's a bit like a lot of stuff in the ANO, not punishable other than by a stern telling off and they're simply relying on a persons honesty to comply with it. I know some guy who said he was going to register his models in his dogs name, just like he has his car, but I don't know if he did or not.

@OlliePackman
Don't forget that for your Flyer ID exemption to be valid you need to upload the certificate to the BMFA membership portal and have it authorised.

Regarding the Operator ID, you just need someone over 18 to act as the responsible adult, so that could be an older sibling, mum, dad, crazy uncle etc. Of course if that person already has an Operator ID because they are the person who got you into flying in the first place, they technically don't need a second one and if they're happy can stick their OID on your craft (this is what I will do with my sons plane, and just do it with writing on masking tape under the battery flap, no need to be super technical) either way whoever you get to act as the responsible adult, if they don't have one just get them to register direct with the CAA and pay the £9 to them direct, they don't need to be a member of the BMFA.

You've highlighted the big elephant in the room flaw in this whole system, plus of course there is presently no way for a Police Officer to verify that an Operator ID is registered to the person claiming it is theirs, they can only verify whether it's a valid Operator ID or not, you could drive a bus through the system tbh and in a lot of areas, I can see it'll eventually be a case of the club secretary having to Police it because the local coppers don't have the resources to.
Yes I have uploaded it to the portal. I think there is more than one big elephant in the room flaw too. The club just buy one operator ID and have all the members planes labelled to that ID and then you have saved hundreds of pounds.
 

IanSR

Active member
#13
The CAA have effectively said if any BMFA affiliate club does this, then the concessions (exemptions) we have will be withdrawn, so the BMFA have conveyed to clubs that this should not be done since if we are flying fixed wing, we don't have any height limits (which means where we are based, our height restriction is 2500ft) thanks to one of these exemptions.

But of course it doesn't stop five guys who get together every Sunday to fly on a mates farm out in the sticks clubbing together and doing it.

BTW I think also it's a requirement of the exemptions that we must carry our pass certificates with us too, as well as the exemption and BMFA membership certificate for the Pilot ID exemption to be valid.