The last link, while being really cool, is not about this abused term, "Tip Stall," but rather about relating bird wing geometries to fixed wing aircraft.
Pet Peeve- "Tip Stall" (Please excuse me for being a jerk)
- Thread starter earthsciteach
- Start date
That one may have been a stretch. I admit it.
So far, it looks like the term "tip stall" should only be used for pointed/tapered wings. So, we probably are misusing it rather than abusing it. Even so, I don't know how we can protect you from it, which is a worry.
I won't sleep tonight. Maybe if I leave the light on and keep my head under the covers.
I better not get a 2 am phone call.
Capt_Beavis
Posted a thousand or more times
My pet peeve is when planes tip stall too, I really hate it........
Tench745
Master member
I think the ultimate complaint is not the use of "tip stall" as a descriptor of an airplane's behavior, ie: the sudden loss of lift at the wingtip due to a poorly trimmed/designed wing, but that it is being misrepresented. A plane stalling due to poor piloting and spinning in is not tip stalling. It's just stalling.
The Jenny was known for spinning when she stalled, and killing pilots in doing so. She was so under powered you couldn't use the engine to help with recovery and since it happens at the slow speeds associated with takeoffs and landings if you banked more than ten degrees or so and raised the nose, she'd spin in. That's a rather unimportant bit of trivia.
When the FT crowd designed in under-camber on the spitfire wings it was to allow the wing to stall root first, tip last. Combating that tendency.
I think the secondary issue here is the verbification, (I made that up,) of nouns and the tendency to combine phrases into terms. To stall a wingtip becomes, perhaps incorrectly, 'tip stall.'
I think that tip stall, much like the term drone, should be avoided. If you don't know what the term really refers to, don't use it. Ditto for Drone.
The Jenny was known for spinning when she stalled, and killing pilots in doing so. She was so under powered you couldn't use the engine to help with recovery and since it happens at the slow speeds associated with takeoffs and landings if you banked more than ten degrees or so and raised the nose, she'd spin in. That's a rather unimportant bit of trivia.
When the FT crowd designed in under-camber on the spitfire wings it was to allow the wing to stall root first, tip last. Combating that tendency.
I think the secondary issue here is the verbification, (I made that up,) of nouns and the tendency to combine phrases into terms. To stall a wingtip becomes, perhaps incorrectly, 'tip stall.'
I think that tip stall, much like the term drone, should be avoided. If you don't know what the term really refers to, don't use it. Ditto for Drone.
Tench - you get me. Thank you.
While "tip stall" isn't technically the right term (I can back this up cause I just passed my written) it can still be used to describe the stall. Yes, properly speaking a stall is a stall and we should all probably know that, but the term does have its uses.
I do not argue that it can be useful in describing the characteristics of stall, but it is, in my personal opinion, misused often in the RC community. I'll also argue that many see it, incorrectly, as a completely separate phenomenon than a "stall."
Right. Tip stall shouldn't be eliminated from our vocabulary, but it should be used more properly.
Ok, I'll join the banter. Yes, its an abused term in the RC community. It is a specific TYPE of stall. So, using RC vernacular you have a tip stall and a "mush" stall. These are general in-flight types of stalls. Then there are ground loops and and ground effect lifting tendencies that can also be discussed. They all relate back to a general stall (no lift produced by proper airflow over the wing, not loss in speed). You can stall in a tail wind. Your best bet is to keep the understanding of aerodynamics to yourself. Once you start talking about it then you seem pompous and people tend to think you are just a know-it-all. Ask how I know! Your best bet is to make a suggestion in the form of a question.
Example: someone post how "good" a plane is at tip-stalling. Formulate a question that will invoke the response of someone who would actually want to look up the information... "Do you mean there is no tip-stall tendencies? I understood a tips-stall as... is that right?" Then they are empowered to question what they are saying, so a quick google search, learn the right way, then reinforce it by teaching you something you already knew. That is in an ideal situation. I've always found that by not providing abrupt correction you give an opportunity for someone to learn it better than if you were to start an argument.
I'm not a teacher though, just explaining what I've experienced.
Example: someone post how "good" a plane is at tip-stalling. Formulate a question that will invoke the response of someone who would actually want to look up the information... "Do you mean there is no tip-stall tendencies? I understood a tips-stall as... is that right?" Then they are empowered to question what they are saying, so a quick google search, learn the right way, then reinforce it by teaching you something you already knew. That is in an ideal situation. I've always found that by not providing abrupt correction you give an opportunity for someone to learn it better than if you were to start an argument.
I'm not a teacher though, just explaining what I've experienced.
I fully admit I'm being jerkish about this. It just bugs me, like nails on a chalkboard and fried liver (blech!).
I won't get into "ground loop," then…
I won't get into "ground loop," then…
ViperTech
Member
I wanted to be a smart aleck and say "OH my plane Tail stalled!" Just to fuel the fire. But turns out that's a real thing! I read thru the evidence Teach submitted before shooting off my mouth and found this, "The horizontal tail can not provide the pitching authority needed to support the wing loading (tail stall)". I understand more about this issue of "Stalling" thanks to this thread and will be careful as to ascribing the term tip stall to a spin in event. I think my landing gear stalled?!
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