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Question about fps on fpv cameras

#1
Having seen some fpv videos on youtube I am now building my own bixler 2 with fpv. While shopping for a ccd cam there was always 1 question in my mind: how smooth is the image going to be. I read some stuff about PAL and NTSC and for what I have read NTSC has a 60hz interlaced video stream and PAL has 50hz interlaced. Now when I read the description of some of these ccd cameras usually with the cheap ones I can't find the frequency (hz) at which they operate. That made me a little bit hesitant to buy the cheaper fpv cameras because I definately want the 60 hz fluidness.

Note: I am talking about FPV cams, I want the video on my AV monitor to be smooth when im flying.

So my question is: Do all ccd cameras no matter how cheap use 50 hz PAL or 60 hz NTSC, or do cheaper models have lower framerate?
 
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RoyBro

Senior Member
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#2
NTSC and PAL are based on those frequencies. Frame rate can be dependent on the video resolution and the capabilities of the camera itself. A good example are the capabilities of the GoPro Hero 3 White Edition. It captures at different frame rates at different resolutions. See below.

GoproWhiteRez.PNG

But that may not actually what you really want to know. What kind of videos do you want to make?
 

colorex

Rotor Riot!
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#3
Having seen some fpv videos on youtube I am now building my own bixler 2 with fpv. While shopping for a ccd cam there was always 1 question in my mind: how smooth is the image going to be. I read some stuff about PAL and NTSC and for what I have read NTSC has a 60hz interlaced video stream and PAL has 50hz interlaced. Now when I read the description of some of these ccd cameras usually with the cheap ones I can't find the frequency (hz) at which they operate. That made me a little bit hesitant to buy the cheaper fpv cameras because I definately want the 60 hz fluidness.

So my question is: Do all ccd cameras no matter how cheap use 50 hz PAL or 60 hz NTSC, or do cheaper models have lower framerate?
If you are going to record video footage to look beautiful, then you need a separate camera like a GoPro. If you're concerned about lag on the FPV system, it's not really noticeable to the human eye. The FPS, I don't know, but it's very good actually since it's an analog system and not a digital one.
 
#4
I am not talking about digital video cameras for recording. I am talking about cameras that output an analog signal for fpv. All I want is a smooth experience when I am watching my AV monitor on the ground and I am wondering if the cheap 17 dollar cameras from HK have the same framerate as the uber expensive ones, because I can live with lower image quality.
 
#5
Yes exactly! I want to view my AV monitor and see a smooth image when I turn my airplane. So from your experiences it is really smooth even with the cheaper cameras?
 

colorex

Rotor Riot!
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#6
Yes exactly! I want to view my AV monitor and see a smooth image when I turn my airplane. So from your experiences it is really smooth even with the cheaper cameras?
Well, I don't have a cheaper camera :) I have a PZ0420 clone, (according to some the clone is as good as the original one). It's heaps better than the Fatshark camera, according to bmsweb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdsc-WmJmfI

This is the one I got from a US vendor, perfect everything, no issues, recommended (SierraRC)

http://www.sierrarc.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=356

This is the famous original one:

http://www.securitycamera2000.com/products/600TVL-SONY-SUPER-HAD-CCD-D%252dWDR-Color-Board-Camera-with-OSD-Menu-DNR.html

The original is an excellent camera according to several sources. The clone is very good too, by personal experience. a 2.8mm lens is very suitable for FPV.

No info on the HK $17 camera, but you could contact bmsweb over youtube, or PM him right here for a personal opinion.
 

RoyBro

Senior Member
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#7
The picture quality on your monitor is more dependent on your downlink connection than the camera. Different frequencies offer different advantages and disadvantages. So I recommend looking into what transmitter and receiver you intend to use.
 
#8
The picture quality on your monitor is more dependent on your downlink connection than the camera. Different frequencies offer different advantages and disadvantages. So I recommend looking into what transmitter and receiver you intend to use.
I am going to use 5.8 ghz ( this set http://www.ebay.com/itm/161090332806?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) as far as I know only the frequency determines the picture quality, since 5.8 ghz has more bandwith than the other frequencies it is going to be the best. But its not about picture quality. I just want to know if all ccd cameras no matter how cheap will broadcast at 50 hz PAL or 60 hz NTSC. I do not want to buy a ccd cam that has lower framerate than that.
 
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colorex

Rotor Riot!
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#9
You might as well get some 5.8 GHz cloverleaf and skewplanar antennas for it or your range is going to be very small and dodgy.
 

RoyBro

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#10
I just want to know if all ccd cameras no matter how cheap will broadcast at 50 hz PAL or 60 hz NTSC. I do not want to buy a ccd cam that has lower framerate than that.
Frequency doesn't necessarily equal frame rate. Buying a cheap camera, you may have to choose between NTSC and PAL. Better cameras will do both. Next you will choose the resolution / frame rate combination. They are usually linked. For example, you can choose 320 X 240 @ 60 fps or 640 X 480 @ 30 fps. Those would be for NTSC. PAL would offer something similar. Regardless of which camera you choose, it will probably outperform your 5.8ghz FPV system.
 
#11
Frequency doesn't necessarily equal frame rate. Buying a cheap camera, you may have to choose between NTSC and PAL. Better cameras will do both. Next you will choose the resolution / frame rate combination. They are usually linked. For example, you can choose 320 X 240 @ 60 fps or 640 X 480 @ 30 fps. Those would be for NTSC. PAL would offer something similar. Regardless of which camera you choose, it will probably outperform your 5.8ghz FPV system.
What are you talking about? Frequency does equal framerate, PAL 50hz means 50 frames per second (interlaced that is) and NTSC 60hz means 60 frames per second. Yes ofcourse any digital camera will outperform my FPV setup, I'm not asking that. All im asking is if the cheap CCD cameras have that 50 hz or higher refresh rate or do the cheaper ones have a lower refresh rate.
 

xuzme720

Dedicated foam bender
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#13
What are you talking about? Frequency does equal framerate, PAL 50hz means 50 frames per second (interlaced that is) and NTSC 60hz means 60 frames per second. Yes ofcourse any digital camera will outperform my FPV setup, I'm not asking that. All im asking is if the cheap CCD cameras have that 50 hz or higher refresh rate or do the cheaper ones have a lower refresh rate.
The NTSC systems refresh rate is only applicable to the broadcast portion, which is different than what the camera records it's video in. Cameras have a distinct shutter speed also expressed in FPS. That is where the confusion is I think.

If the camera outputs video in NTSC, then yes it the video link will be at 60hz.
 

RoyBro

Senior Member
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#14
What are you talking about? Frequency does equal framerate, PAL 50hz means 50 frames per second (interlaced that is) and NTSC 60hz means 60 frames per second. Yes ofcourse any digital camera will outperform my FPV setup, I'm not asking that. All im asking is if the cheap CCD cameras have that 50 hz or higher refresh rate or do the cheaper ones have a lower refresh rate.
At 60 hz, the TV screen is refreshed 60 times per second. But because each frame is interlaced, it takes two refreshes to build one frame, which makes for 30 frames per second.
So, frequency doesn't necessarily mean frames per second. I copied the text below from an article describing the difference between NTSC and PAL.

NTSC is the video system or standard used in North America and most of South America. In NTSC, 30 frames are transmitted each second. Each frame is made up of 525 individual scan lines.

PAL is the predominant video system or standard mostly used overseas. In PAL, 25 frames are transmitted each second. Each frame is made up of 625 individual scan lines.
 
#15
At 60 hz, the TV screen is refreshed 60 times per second. But because each frame is interlaced, it takes two refreshes to build one frame, which makes for 30 frames per second.
So, frequency doesn't necessarily mean frames per second. I copied the text below from an article describing the difference between NTSC and PAL.

NTSC is the video system or standard used in North America and most of South America. In NTSC, 30 frames are transmitted each second. Each frame is made up of 525 individual scan lines.

PAL is the predominant video system or standard mostly used overseas. In PAL, 25 frames are transmitted each second. Each frame is made up of 625 individual scan lines.
Yes I know I stated it was interlaced...(hz=interlaced framerate) My only question again and again: Do cheap ccd fpv cams have lower fps then the standard 50hz PAL or 60Hz NTSC.
 
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RoyBro

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#16
Yes I know I stated it was interlaced...(hz=interlaced framerate) My only question again and again: Do cheap ccd fpv cams have lower fps then the standard 50hz PAL or 60Hz NTSC.
No. By definition of the standard. Otherwise they wouldn't work with other video equipment.
 
#17
No matter how cheap the camera if it states PAL it will operate at 50Hz. If it states NTSC it will operate at 60Hz.

In my experience there is no noticeable difference between a refresh rate of 50 or 60 during FPV.
For me the key is how well the camera handles light changes and the resolution of the image. This is generally poor in the cheaper cameras.