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Red Bull says no!

nhk750

Aviation Enthusiast
#1
I am building an Extra 300S and thought it would be fun to make it a Red Bull plane, but I am running into problems finding any available graphics. I never imagined looking for some decals would be so incredibly difficult for my model airplane... What has this world come too? I don't blame the graphics vendors, but Red Bull replied too, after I asked them permission to put sticker on my model airplane, and you can see below what they said. I was also told by others that Red Bull could file litigation against me if they saw my model with their logos on it out in public. Now I know there are lots of Red Bull models out there and never heard of any one getting sued over sticker. WOW... I did order some from Ocean Palm Graphics, but they have not responded yet to my order, so?

My question to the Flight Test Team and people here is: I know there was a Red Bull challenge just recently where people built and sent in their builds and Red Bull planes to Flight Test. Did each individual get permission from Red Bull to use the graphics? Did Flight Test get permission? How was that contest possible when Red Bull says "No way you can use our graphics ever". Where can I get some Red Bull graphics for my build?

Callie graphics replied:

Hi David,
I'm afraid due to RedBulls strict copywrite laws I won't be able to recreate this scheme for you. So sorry I couldn't help you with this!

Thanks!
Callie

Kirby Graphics replied;

David, we use to provide the Red Bull artwork. However the Red Bull corporations legal department sent me letters telling me to stop the manufacturing of the logos. Sorry we will not be able to assist you with this project.
Dennis G. Kirby
Kirbys Kustom Vinyl Graphics
513-932-2422
www.kirbysgraphics.com


Red Bull replied to my permission request:

Red Bull USA
Sep 28, 17:27
Hey David,
We appreciate your interest, however our logo and phrase are not available for public or individual use as they are reserved for our sponsored athletes, special events, and commercials.
We’re glad you asked because using it would be a trademark infringement, yikes!
Thanks for asking and for being such a fan!
Soaring Regards,
Red Bull
www.redbull.com
#givesyouwings
Download Red Bull TV here:
http://win.gs/RedBullTVAppiOS
http://win.gs/RedBullTVAppAndroid


David Morrison
Sep 28, 01:38
I build and fly RC airplanes for a hobby. I am building an EXTRA 300S rc airplane and would like to put Red Bull graphics on it like the airplane pictured in the attachment. Callie Graphics at https://callie-graphics.com/, said they can not print the vinyl graphics for me because of copyright laws. Can I get permission from Red Bull to have Callie Graphics print the graphics for my RC Airplane?
Thanks,
David Morrison
Attachments:
87809_1250283411.jpg


Red Bull USA
www.redbull.com | @redbull | www.facebook.com/redbull | www.redbull.tv
RED BULL GIVES YOU WINGS
T.USA.NC002
[L7DQ78-PKMP]
 

jaredstrees

Well-known member
#2
Wow they stink. I understand copyrights and all, but to disallow private use like that, where it would probably be like free advertising, is just shameful.
 

AkimboGlueGuns

Biplane Guy
Mentor
#3
I've heard about Red Bull doing that to a few other people, but I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would only be against the law if you were to distribute the logo, or use it for commercial purposes. As long as you do not make money I think the logo falls under fair use. I would think that having a logo appear in a You Tube video or some other monetized media would probably be a larger interest since the reach would likely be wider. Either way, I'm sure the Red Bull lawyers have better uses of their time other than to go after hobbyists wanting to build a replica of one of their airplanes, so if you find a way to either make the graphics yourself or someone willing to make them I doubt you would run into any trouble. That or just misspell Red Bull (Rad Bull?) just to irritate them.

As for Flite Test, I think since they were sponsored to run that contest they were given permission to use the logo for commercial uses.
 
Last edited:

nhk750

Aviation Enthusiast
#4
I know, right, I am just a little fish trying to have some fun... Anyway I may go a different direction and abandon Red Bull, even though I already purchased the Ultracote colors. I did see another Extra out there with the blue and silver colors but different graphics than Red Bull, I just need to find it again as it did look cool. I'm still wondering how the Flight Test guys got away with it?
 

AkimboGlueGuns

Biplane Guy
Mentor
#5
I probably posted my edit as you wrote your response. I added a few things that are likely to be the case with FT's use of the Red Bull logos, and other avenues you could go down.
 

Paracodespoder

Well-known member
#6
I think they don't want the graphics printer you contacted to sell them and make a profit off of their logo, does seem a little mean to not let you use them though. I think you'll be able to come up with a better scheme than Red Bull anyways ;).
 

DamoRC

Well-known member
Mentor
#7
I had heard that RB tightly controlled the use of their logos. Initially I thought it might be just a problem with anyone making the logos and selling them (decal kits, stickers etc). But from the line in the email from Red Bull that states "however our logo and phrase are not available for public or individual use " its clear that they don't want anyone to use the logo.

For the Red Bull competition, I just found what I could on the web and made up the decals myself. Seems like that would be considered an infringement. I am not licensed to provide legal advice but what are the chances they are going to chase you for this? At some point in the future I am going to rebuild the Bull Rider and I will be using the logos again and if they want to send me a Cease and Desist letter, so be it. This is probably not a great example to set for our younger members but not being able to use the logo for personal, non commercial use seems ridiculous

DamoRC
 

IanSR

Active member
#8
It's not just Red Bull, they are just more vocal and upfront about it.

I race in an online league and a few years ago one of the other drivers got served with an injunction by a famous Britsh cleaning products company he had decided to put on the side of his virtual car that nobody outside of the league, would ever see or know about. It turned out that he had posted a render (photo) of the pant scheme on Facebook and the image eventually worked its way back to the marketing department of the company involved who passed it to legal who decided to throw the book at him.

Silly thing was all it needed was a polite email and he would have pulled it, instead they spend tens of thousands obtaining and serving an injunction over something nobody ever saw.
 

kilroy07

Well-known member
#9
Their response has to do with trademark laws.

In layman's terms, IF they fail to "aggressively" defend their trademark, they are in jeopardy of loosing it.
(If someone can prove in court they they endorse "casual" use, they forfeit the exclusive rights to that trademark.)

Copyright laws are the ones that allow "not for profit/parody/Art" use.

At least in the U.S.
 

Merv

Well-known member
#11
Well if it were me asking to use the RB logo, I could understand their position, knowing the way I fly. So the question is, do you fly anything like I do? ;)
 

AkimboGlueGuns

Biplane Guy
Mentor
#12
Thinking about this more, I really don't think you can claim copyright infringement when a logo is created for personal use. Say I was to draw myself a near perfect likeness of the Red Bull logo for a poster I want to hang in my room. Since I will make no profit on the creation of the poster the Red Bull legal team couldn't claim any lost revenue. I don't see any difference between this and the hypothetical.
 

JTarmstr

Well-known member
#13
Thinking about this more, I really don't think you can claim copyright infringement when a logo is created for personal use. Say I was to draw myself a near perfect likeness of the Red Bull logo for a poster I want to hang in my room. Since I will make no profit on the creation of the poster the Red Bull legal team couldn't claim any lost revenue. I don't see any difference between this and the hypothetical.
Thats because you are using Red Bulls trademark. They have a trademark on their insignia and if you put it on, say an aircraft, then it looks like your endorsed by them. However if you were to make an identical soda as the Red bull energy drink, as long as it isn't being sold you can make as much as you want and it wont be a problem.

According to Secureyourtrademark.com

"A trademark protects a name, logo or slogan that is used to identify and distinguish a product or service in the marketplace. Put another way, trademarks are used to differentiate one product or service from competing products or services."

"Instead of protecting a name or slogan, a copyright protects an original creative work, such as a book, a film, or a painting."

Anyway I hope this helps.
 

JTarmstr

Well-known member
#14
As for FliteTest, I would think they approached red bull and asked if they could do an event to promote their air races. Hence why the prizes were Tickets to the air races and the winning designs were at a stall during the event.
 

kilroy07

Well-known member
#15
Thinking about this more, I really don't think you can claim copyright infringement when a logo is created for personal use.
Most people think copyright and trade mark are the same, they are not.

Clearly the company representative misspoke when they said copyright and NOT trademark as they should have.
(I'm sure the corporate lawyers (attorneys HATE to be called that) ;) would correct/flog the rep for the mistake, if called to their attention.)
 

JTarmstr

Well-known member
#16
"RedBull USA
Sep 28, 17:27
Hey David,
We appreciate your interest, however our logo and phrase are not available for public or individual use as they are reserved for our sponsored athletes, special events, and commercials.
We’re glad you asked because using it would be a trademark infringement, yikes!
Thanks for asking and for being such a fan!
Soaring Regards,
Red Bull"

They did say that in the email. For a lot of people trademark and copyright are synonyms but in the legal world they are apples and oranges ;).
 

nhk750

Aviation Enthusiast
#17
Well if it were me asking to use the RB logo, I could understand their position, knowing the way I fly. So the question is, do you fly anything like I do? ;)
Probably, I routinely push the limits learning new aerobatics (like flat spins, harriers, ect, but usually only with my FT foam, the balsa I just do maneuvers I am very familiar with, like hovering, Cubans, loops, knife edge, rolls, ect...
 

AkimboGlueGuns

Biplane Guy
Mentor
#18
Something to note while you have a (mostly) completed airframe is that the manufacturer designed this kit before 3D was a big thing, and it likely won't be a 3D performer. Scale aerobatics are the forte with a lot of these 90's designed planes and they really excel at it. Keep the speed up and fly it like airshow performers do and you'll have a great time. If you try to force it into high alpha it will most likely tip stall and break out of the maneuver.
 

nhk750

Aviation Enthusiast
#19
Ya, I'm not into 3d too much, just experiment with it and save that for my FT Planes, but I love sport pattern flying.
 

PsyBorg

Just cant shut up!
Mentor
#20
Maybe use the color scheme and do brown n blue n silver instead of blue red n silver and use the :poop: logo instead of a bull just to stick a finger in their eye.

Instead of wings use a sneaker on top like it stepped in the :poop:.
Then make a parody video in a pasture dodging cows instead of air gates.