Skill level to fly FT spear?

[Ialwayslaugh]

I am a fairly new pilot, I wanted to know when is the right time to fly the FT spear. In your opinion what is the skill level required to fly it?

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Its not an easy unit to fly, you have to constantly pay attention to it. There is no such thing as hands off flight from my experience. But take it for what it is because this was almost a year ago and my skill level has significantly gotten better since. If I was to build it now then it might be a different story. As the vids title suggests this was the 2nd attempt at the maiden, the first was wrought with unforeseeable issues, like the dog pouncing on the Spear while it was on the ground. That didn't help the situation either. But check out the vid and decide for yourself...

Now as in FT forum fashion there will be others on here that will tell you otherwise based on their experiences possibly, but this wasn't the last revisit for this wing for me. If you check out other vids on my channel with wings, mostly vids shot around the same time as this one, it was a comedy of failed attempts. I even cheated the wing once or twice and added an elevator H style tail and made the elevons into ailerons and still had issues, (more vids on that in the channel too)

Like I said now I have a better handle on wings. I do have suggestions of where to start with the whole wing genre, but if you want to try the Spear, it is just FB and time. Good luck though, keep us posted

 

[Ialwayslaugh]

Its not an easy unit to fly, you have to constantly pay attention to it. There is no such thing as hands off flight from my experience. But take it for what it is because this was almost a year ago and my skill level has significantly gotten better since. If I was to build it now then it might be a different story. As the vids title suggests this was the 2nd attempt at the maiden, the first was wrought with unforeseeable issues, like the dog pouncing on the Spear while it was on the ground. That didn't help the situation either. But check out the vid and decide for yourself...

Now as in FT forum fashion there will be others on here that will tell you otherwise based on their experiences possibly, but this wasn't the last revisit for this wing for me. If you check out other vids on my channel with wings, mostly vids shot around the same time as this one, it was a comedy of failed attempts. I even cheated the wing once or twice and added an elevator H style tail and made the elevons into ailerons and still had issues, (more vids on that in the channel too)

Like I said now I have a better handle on wings. I do have suggestions of where to start with the whole wing genre, but if you want to try the Spear, it is just FB and time. Good luck though, keep us posted

I really don't know if I will be able to fly it, this looks really hard. Would you say this is fine as a second plane?

 

[JasonK]

the build documentation has it as flight skill level of 2/5, the tiny trainer is also a 2/5. So either the documentation's flight skill level stuff is rather arbitrary, or it should be fine once you can fly the trainer comfortably.

When I first flew a FT Dart (a smaller wing, so more twitchy), it was a rather easy thing to fly. One thing that I think will be the case for all wings (and if I am wrong I would love for someone to tell me what I am doing wrong), is that trim is going to work for a very narrow throttle band (because the effectiveness of the control surfaces changes with the speed of the craft and wings are always "nose heavy" (CG in front of the NP), there are lots of things about them that are going to be airspeed dependent for flight characteristics).

 

[dap35]

I am pretty new and def on the beginner end of the scale. For me getting it balanced and trimmed was a challenge and without help from a more senior club member I wouldn't have gotten there. I needed to increase the reflex over what the plans called for - ie it needed more up than I could give just through trim. I also have the Aura 5 installed which makes launches and flight much easier.

 

[Ialwayslaugh]

I am pretty new and def on the beginner end of the scale. For me getting it balanced and trimmed was a challenge and without help from a more senior club member I wouldn't have gotten there. I needed to increase the reflex over what the plans called for - ie it needed more up than I could give just through trim. I also have the Aura 5 installed which makes launches and flight much easier.

so I have flown a trainer but do you think I should be able to handle this?

 

[dap35]

so I have flown a trainer but do you think I should be able to handle this?

The Aura 5 covers up a lot of skills gap and in my opinion, is a cheap insurance. I also spent some time on RF9 with the Arrow and that helped. I probably rely too much on the Aura 5, but I do have the option to switch it off or to a different mode during flight.

I modified my Spear to include drag rudders, which can help with tighter turns, but also does make it more tail heavy.

 

[Ialwayslaugh]

The Aura 5 covers up a lot of skills gap and in my opinion, is a cheap insurance. I also spent some time on RF9 with the Arrow and that helped. I probably rely too much on the Aura 5, but I do have the option to switch it off or to a different mode during flight.

I modified my Spear to include drag rudders, which can help with tighter turns, but also does make it more tail heavy.

Right, is it a lot harder without the aura 5. I just have a normal gyro inside just gives some input for level.

 

[JasonK]

all this talk about using flight stabilizers for fixed wing stuff... haven't used one yet. I do have a build planed that will need one..

 

[Ialwayslaugh]

all this talk about using flight stabilizers for fixed wing stuff... haven't used one yet. I do have a build planed that will need one..

same, I just have a gyro lol. but I have it on my apprentice and it's great

 

[JasonK]

same, I just have a gyro lol. but I have it on my apprentice and it's great

well, the one that is going to be using it is my vtol, which is going to have multiple flight modes, including a 'hover' mode which needs flight stabilization (just like a quad does). I am also trying to get away with only 2 servos and 2 motors to do both hover and forward flight, so I definitely need some 'brains' to handle all the mixing/etc.

 

[dap35]

all this talk about using flight stabilizers for fixed wing stuff... haven't used one yet. I do have a build planed that will need one..

Its a simple add. I was also able to add a speed brake mode to the drag rudders using the Aura. It has been a good learning experience.

As I have posted on other threads, the launch assist on the Aura is amazing. Using 75-100% throttle, I give a gentle overhand frisbee toss up with my right hand and away she goes.

 

[JasonK]

Its a simple add. I was also able to add a speed brake mode to the drag rudders using the Aura. It has been a good learning experience.

As I have posted on other threads, the launch assist on the Aura is amazing. Using 75-100% throttle, I give a gentle overhand frisbee toss up with my right hand and away she goes.

didn't say it wasn't a simple add, just haven't had much need for it.

 

[Ialwayslaugh]

well, the one that is going to be using it is my vtol, which is going to have multiple flight modes, including a 'hover' mode which needs flight stabilization (just like a quad does). I am also trying to get away with only 2 servos and 2 motors to do both hover and forward flight, so I definitely need some 'brains' to handle all the mixing/etc.

what is that build? just curious..

 

[Ialwayslaugh]

So, to conclude, I can fly it..right?

 

[JasonK]

what is that build? just curious..

link is in my signature... it is currently most a wall of notes as I have been working through stuff. hoping to find some time to get back at it here shortly.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

so I have flown a trainer but do you think I should be able to handle this?

The only plane I have that has a FC is the Sport Cub S from Horizon Hobby, my first plane that got me into the hobby. As good as it was to learn the basic maneuvers it as to how this flight stuff works, it really is just a crutch. If you depend on it you will never learn to fly yourself, it will always fly for you.

As far as the Spear that I flew in the posted vid, the reflex was not an issue. It may have been in the first try of the maiden and yea I did need to make adjustments. But pitch control wasn't and issue. As @JasonK mentioned just like most airframes they will be pitch sensitive to variations in speed, which is why I mix elevator trim with my throttle stick now to compensate with amazing success and accuracy. When I say it was not a hands off ride means I was having trouble with roll stability at the time. If it tipped to the left i would put in right to straighten, it would level off but then keep tipping to the right. I would give a touch of left to bring it back, it would level then continue to the tip left. Its not like a Cub or Scout that will sit center and you can go grab a cup of tea. It has to be constantly monitored. An FC would definitely help with the stability on this unit, especially if you want to use it as a camera platform.
Or you could just keep maneuvering it so it doesn't fly straight so you don't have to worry about it.

As a first or second plane I would say no. As a first flying wing, I would also say no. There are little tricks you can do to help the stability of the Spear as in using Vortex Generators on the wing tips just on the inside of the wing tip fences to help the wing tips stall last. Not only does it help in roll stability but helps with the yaw wobble as well. Much more stable on any wing. But if you have never flown a wing or even a plane set up with elevons you need to progressively move to the Spear. If you are just gonna toss a FC in it then build whatever you like and let it fly for you. But there are other ways to develop you own skills then using an FC or gyro to do it for you.

If I was you I would start with the FT-22. Its a pusher like the wings and uses elevons. The third thing about the FT-22 that makes it a good beginner wing model is you can play with the CG and it still flies nice. IT has a CG that can moved 3-4" in range depending on how you want it to fly. Play with that and get used to it. Then once you have that sorted move to say the FT Arrow or a smaller KFm wing for simplicity and durability, because you will crash it lots. Actually the KFm would be a better option. This will help you see how sensitive the balance is on a wing, and it is sensitive, trust me. This will teach you what flight characteristics to look for to troubleshoot balance issues. Once you have that dialed in you are pretty much ready to rock any wing you like. But remember this is a learning process for you, not a FC. A FC is just a band aid for a bad build, bad balance, and a bad pilot. Usually two out of the three and sometimes its a hat trick.

I am just saying this because I spent so much time and effort in my builds that it is so disappointing to see them go down and demolish on the first flight or two. I am trying to save you the heart ache. A smart man will learn from his own mistakes, a wise man will learn from the mistakes of others.

 

[Ialwayslaugh]

The only plane I have that has a FC is the Sport Cub S from Horizon Hobby, my first plane that got me into the hobby. As good as it was to learn the basic maneuvers it as to how this flight stuff works, it really is just a crutch. If you depend on it you will never learn to fly yourself, it will always fly for you.

As far as the Spear that I flew in the posted vid, the reflex was not an issue. It may have been in the first try of the maiden and yea I did need to make adjustments. But pitch control wasn't and issue. As @JasonK mentioned just like most airframes they will be pitch sensitive to variations in speed, which is why I mix elevator trim with my throttle stick now to compensate with amazing success and accuracy. When I say it was not a hands off ride means I was having trouble with roll stability at the time. If it tipped to the left i would put in right to straighten, it would level off but then keep tipping to the right. I would give a touch of left to bring it back, it would level then continue to the tip left. Its not like a Cub or Scout that will sit center and you can go grab a cup of tea. It has to be constantly monitored. An FC would definitely help with the stability on this unit, especially if you want to use it as a camera platform.
Or you could just keep maneuvering it so it doesn't fly straight so you don't have to worry about it.

As a first or second plane I would say no. As a first flying wing, I would also say no. There are little tricks you can do to help the stability of the Spear as in using Vortex Generators on the wing tips just on the inside of the wing tip fences to help the wing tips stall last. Not only does it help in roll stability but helps with the yaw wobble as well. Much more stable on any wing. But if you have never flown a wing or even a plane set up with elevons you need to progressively move to the Spear. If you are just gonna toss a FC in it then build whatever you like and let it fly for you. But there are other ways to develop you own skills then using an FC or gyro to do it for you.

If I was you I would start with the FT-22. Its a pusher like the wings and uses elevons. The third thing about the FT-22 that makes it a good beginner wing model is you can play with the CG and it still flies nice. IT has a CG that can moved 3-4" in range depending on how you want it to fly. Play with that and get used to it. Then once you have that sorted move to say the FT Arrow or a smaller KFm wing for simplicity and durability, because you will crash it lots. Actually the KFm would be a better option. This will help you see how sensitive the balance is on a wing, and it is sensitive, trust me. This will teach you what flight characteristics to look for to troubleshoot balance issues. Once you have that dialed in you are pretty much ready to rock any wing you like. But remember this is a learning process for you, not a FC. A FC is just a band aid for a bad build, bad balance, and a bad pilot. Usually two out of the three and sometimes its a hat trick.

I am just saying this because I spent so much time and effort in my builds that it is so disappointing to see them go down and demolish on the first flight or two. I am trying to save you the heart ache. A smart man will learn from his own mistakes, a wise man will learn from the mistakes of others.

Thank you so much, I understand.

 

[Ialwayslaugh]

The only plane I have that has a FC is the Sport Cub S from Horizon Hobby, my first plane that got me into the hobby. As good as it was to learn the basic maneuvers it as to how this flight stuff works, it really is just a crutch. If you depend on it you will never learn to fly yourself, it will always fly for you.

As far as the Spear that I flew in the posted vid, the reflex was not an issue. It may have been in the first try of the maiden and yea I did need to make adjustments. But pitch control wasn't and issue. As @JasonK mentioned just like most airframes they will be pitch sensitive to variations in speed, which is why I mix elevator trim with my throttle stick now to compensate with amazing success and accuracy. When I say it was not a hands off ride means I was having trouble with roll stability at the time. If it tipped to the left i would put in right to straighten, it would level off but then keep tipping to the right. I would give a touch of left to bring it back, it would level then continue to the tip left. Its not like a Cub or Scout that will sit center and you can go grab a cup of tea. It has to be constantly monitored. An FC would definitely help with the stability on this unit, especially if you want to use it as a camera platform.
Or you could just keep maneuvering it so it doesn't fly straight so you don't have to worry about it.

As a first or second plane I would say no. As a first flying wing, I would also say no. There are little tricks you can do to help the stability of the Spear as in using Vortex Generators on the wing tips just on the inside of the wing tip fences to help the wing tips stall last. Not only does it help in roll stability but helps with the yaw wobble as well. Much more stable on any wing. But if you have never flown a wing or even a plane set up with elevons you need to progressively move to the Spear. If you are just gonna toss a FC in it then build whatever you like and let it fly for you. But there are other ways to develop you own skills then using an FC or gyro to do it for you.

If I was you I would start with the FT-22. Its a pusher like the wings and uses elevons. The third thing about the FT-22 that makes it a good beginner wing model is you can play with the CG and it still flies nice. IT has a CG that can moved 3-4" in range depending on how you want it to fly. Play with that and get used to it. Then once you have that sorted move to say the FT Arrow or a smaller KFm wing for simplicity and durability, because you will crash it lots. Actually the KFm would be a better option. This will help you see how sensitive the balance is on a wing, and it is sensitive, trust me. This will teach you what flight characteristics to look for to troubleshoot balance issues. Once you have that dialed in you are pretty much ready to rock any wing you like. But remember this is a learning process for you, not a FC. A FC is just a band aid for a bad build, bad balance, and a bad pilot. Usually two out of the three and sometimes its a hat trick.

I am just saying this because I spent so much time and effort in my builds that it is so disappointing to see them go down and demolish on the first flight or two. I am trying to save you the heart ache. A smart man will learn from his own mistakes, a wise man will learn from the mistakes of others.

So my next step would probably be building a plane with a kfm airfoil (not a wing) like the previous one we were discussing yesterday learn of that, then build a smaller plane that uses elevons like a t22, and THEN move on to the spear. I think it's better that way because like you said it is pretty hard to watch all your work go down like that. So its better to get some practice this way, let me know if this would be an ideal plan, appreciate the response and help.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Thank you so much, I understand.

You just made my day bud thank you.

Good Luck on your wing endeavour and keep us posted