The Saga of the "Versa Rocket"

[wilsonb]

Had a quick moment tonight and uploaded the video of the most "successful" flight we've had so far from a couple different angles. Hopefully I'll get some time to upload some of the failures as well if you guys want to see them.

Enjoy!

This is pretty great. Have you considered extending the launch sled to build up more speed before the aircraft is free?

How are you igniting the motor? Is it just an electric match type ignition?

 

[PsyBorg]

From the looks of it in that short test flight it seemed to nose over a bit after leaving the launch platform and then bit the snow from over correction. Would a bit of angle on the motor in a nose down angle help the airframe get lift as well as momentum with neutral flight controls on ignition since its a short burn vs trying to steer it off the ramps and relying on human reaction to control?

There seems to be enough thrust to use the Versa wing as a test platform. You just need to lessen the outside variables holding back reliable motor testing. Maybe just lock the versa's control surfaces in a known neutral position for a glide with COG of the fully fueled motor on it to start. That should remove more of the human factor and give a much more stable and repeatable test.

 

[area66]

Here the one we launch last fall, 4 pound on a H Cessaroni motor with 50 pounds of trust. The wing don't have airfoil so it's very hard to fly.

 

[area66]

And here the month later with a I motor of 100 pound of trust , The Rocket Glider is equipped with a Triple Fire module, it's a device connected to the receiver 3 x 10A pyro channels , so in case of problem we just flip a switch on the transmitter and a black powder charge open the nose and a chute deploy. Safety is a big concern as we have Transport Canada launch authorisation.

you can find info about the triple fire here

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Electronics_Payloads/Dual-Deployment/TripleFire

 

[makattack]

Thanks for taking the time to document your journey! I agree with psyborg. Some up angle on the motor or reflex on the elevons might help with the nose down on thrust issue.

 

[broken flyer]

This is pretty great. Have you considered extending the launch sled to build up more speed before the aircraft is free?

How are you igniting the motor? Is it just an electric match type ignition?

Yes, thought about that, and I actually think it might be better to launch it at a lesser angle with a longer rail since with the weight of the versa wing the thrust to weight ratio isn't very and I would like to do a single rail in the middle and guides on the wing. Maybe in the next iteration.

And yes, it is just an electric match type ignition.

 

[broken flyer]

From the looks of it in that short test flight it seemed to nose over a bit after leaving the launch platform and then bit the snow from over correction. Would a bit of angle on the motor in a nose down angle help the airframe get lift as well as momentum with neutral flight controls on ignition since its a short burn vs trying to steer it off the ramps and relying on human reaction to control?

There seems to be enough thrust to use the Versa wing as a test platform. You just need to lessen the outside variables holding back reliable motor testing. Maybe just lock the versa's control surfaces in a known neutral position for a glide with COG of the fully fueled motor on it to start. That should remove more of the human factor and give a much more stable and repeatable test.

Might help a bit, it is enough thrust to fly the versa wing but it isn't quite enough to get it up to flying speed by the end of the ramp so I think it'll be better on a smaller/lighter aircraft. Taking variables out is always a good idea, I think when we get a new plane built it'll be more successful since we can get the motor on straighter(there was a bit of a yaw moment I think based on another test that I haven't uploaded the video of yet and that's not helping the control situation) and the air frame won't be so out of wack from former crashes.

 

[broken flyer]

And here the month later with a I motor of 100 pound of trust , The Rocket Glider is equipped with a Triple Fire module, it's a device connected to the receiver 3 x 10A pyro channels , so in case of problem we just flip a switch on the transmitter and a black powder charge open the nose and a chute deploy. Safety is a big concern as we have Transport Canada launch authorisation.

you can find info about the triple fire here

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Electronics_Payloads/Dual-Deployment/TripleFire

View attachment 70017 View attachment 70018

Cool stuff! I'm trying to stay out of the high power class since my motors can't be Tripoli certified and I don't want to have to tell ATC that I'm launching since I'd be outside of a sanctioned event that got clearance ahead of time. I might do a bigger one at some point though still, we'll have to see.

 

[SnowRocker88]

I have a very similar job to yours actually. I'm an Engineering CAD Technician/Designer at Cirrus Aircraft full time and I work in the manufacturing group in the engineering department designer production tooling (things like molds for composite parts and jigs and that sort of thing) for our SF50 jet.

Woah, very cool! You guys hiring? Haha

We fab a lot of our own stuff too and I agree that it wouldn't be too hard to do it that way/make it cheaper that way if I could do them in quantity/had a shop at my disposal but paying another shop to do it gets expensive fast. I was thinking of sort of a hybrid approach if I ever go to bigger motors, taking a welded pressure vessel using off the shelf hardware and then 3D printing the nozzle portion of it. There is this really cool process I heard about through work where you take and machine the shape you want to produce into a piece of billet, essentially like an injection mold, and then inject a charged gas that has nickel in it and the nickel deposits on the surface and then you just open it up and walla you have your hollow part. I think that would be pretty darn cool and it would make for very cheap parts but getting tooled up to do that would be expensive. Another thing I've considered is having them stamped out of sheet metal in halves and having them welded then like some performance mufflers for cars are done, but again, high initial expense to get set up to do that. I'm not sure about coating the inside of the nozzle, I'm sure there's a way, but I haven't found a simple/affordable way to do that.

Right, you're talking pretty high volume before a return-on-investment could be met. I was thinking more along the lines of a cheaper way to do some iterative design and test loops before you committed to a production run style design.

 

[broken flyer]

Woah, very cool! You guys hiring? Haha



Right, you're talking pretty high volume before a return-on-investment could be met. I was thinking more along the lines of a cheaper way to do some iterative design and test loops before you committed to a production run style design.

Not sure if we have anything you'd be interested in, but check the career page on occasion if you're interested in working for Cirrus.

http://rew12.ultipro.com/CIR1003/JobBoard/ListJobs.aspx?__VT=ExtCan

 

[broken flyer]

If anyone's interested in seeing a bit more of the story to this one as well as some spectacular footage of the disastrous and short lived final flight of the Versa Rocket I recommend you all take a look at the article I wrote that Flite Test just published!



http://flitetest.com/articles/fire-and-ice-the-road-to-reusable-rockets

 

[Pieliker96]

This looks awesome!
Any chance you'll be at Midwest Power 14?

 

[broken flyer]

I don't think I'll be able to make it down to Midwest Power 14'. Looks like its less than a 6 hour drive for me, but I don't have anything I could fly there and I'm pretty busy this weekend. I'm kind of a rocketry club outlaw as well with my experimentation since my engines don't fit into the Tripoli code even though they're fine as far as the FAA is concerned. Hopefully though at some point I'll put something together that I could fly at an event since that would be a lot of fun! Might even have to just break down and do a rocket glider or something with an off the shelf certified motor some day.

 

[Pieliker96]

I know that feel bro. I have two salvage rockets, one was in a lake and the other in a tree for six months, that I was planning to fly. Unforunately, even though the fuselage are perfectly structurally sound, I can't fly them because they're slightly dented in some places. Oh well. I'll be there as a spectator this year...

 

[broken flyer]

Well everyone... With the Versa Rocket dead and buried we turned to the stock of retired FT planes we had laying around and may have tried to rocketfy an FT Viggen...













Sadly though this was even less successful than the Versa Wing attempts. Too heavy and too much resistance on the "launch rail". Just ended up going off the end slowly and burned out.

However... the engine worked pretty much perfectly and both engine and airframe live to fly another day!

Ultimately I just really need to build a purpose built airframe and launch rail for this engine to get it flying successfully rather than trying to make what's laying around work. So I guess the question now is what to build...