Tutor Instant Crash, is it repairable?

[smbundy13]

Well, I finally finished the build of my Tutor bundle. flew twice, crashed twice. total flight time. under 10 seconds. both times, the plane took off then about 10 feet up, went hard left and then nosed down. broke both propellers that came with the kit, the skewer that holds the wing on ripped 80% through the front canopy. i had the CG nose heavy, what i thought was slightly.. had 3 channels, confirmed they worked. any thoughts?

also, i will try to post a video of the deflection of the elevator rod. it seems excessive.. note, I put the elevator on upside down with the relief cut facing up vs. down.. it seems to cycle.. but has trouble with the up elevation due to the deflection.. Since I need to repair/rebuild I plan to fix this.. just wondering.

this is my first RC plane so i have no idea how to set things up, nor do i know the lingo that i see in other posts.. about trim and such..

attempt of video of deflection

https://imgur.com/E8JjAuN

 

[JayMor]

Right there with you. Built my first yesterday. Took it out and up, and hard crash straight down from about 12’ up after about 6-7 seconds. Powe pod skewers pushed back about 1/2” and down an 1/4”. Was able to pull it back forward and “locked in” to original holes well enough I felt safe enough for a second go. Pretty much same thing but instead of nose dive, was more of little wing and wheels…

I have no idea what I am doing either. My plan is following:

1) out some reinforcement “holes” on all sides of skewers… picked some up on FT Store… didn’t think to use them initially. Might use some tape for the holes too…

2) fill in skewer “cuts” with some bits of foam and foam glue.

3) adjust max trim in TX16s for rudder and elevator… I thought it would be ok… maybe that wasn’t even my issue… but I should have done it.

4) investigate what “dual rate” really means and set a switch to adjust that in case things are too sensitive for me as a beginner.

4a) i did put some “curves” in for R/E as I heard about while setting TX16s in… think it was mentioned in build video too.

Anyways yeah, about 12-seconds of flight time for me. This was a Mighty Mini Cub, but have a Trainer to build as well.

 

[Foamforce]

Yes, that is totally repairable. That’s not even a particularly bad crash, I’d call that a normal “learning to fly“ crash. If you can download the plans from the FTCA website, you can print out the specific pages that have the parts you need. You don’t need to redo entire parts, it’s totally fine to just redo the couple of inches around the crashed area. Butt-joint gluing foam board together is remarkably strong.

Regarding your crash, my first thought is that you may have reversed your ailerons. Check that on the ground. Turn left and the left aileron should go up and your right aileron should go down. If that checks out, then I suspect that you may have just stalled it. A stall happens when you climb too steeply without enough airspeed. It happens frequently at takeoff because you’re going down the runway and you pull up too soon and too hard. Initially you have enough airspeed, but as you climb, you lose airspeed. If you continue to pull up, then the plane stalls, which can look exactly how you described, with a hard roll to one side. When you try to correct with right stick, nothing seems to happen in a stall because the control surfaces have become ineffective. The solution is to build up more speed on the ground and pull up very gradually, waiting until you’re high up before you try anything fancy.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

 

[luvmy40]

The deflection of the control rod on up elevator may be caused by excessive hot glue in the hinge bevel. Maybe just a blob somewhere. When you reinforce the hinge, you want to squeegee the glue out completely.

 

[smbundy13]

thanks everyone, was just a bit discouraging. I will try to repair the fuselage by welding back together.. might as well cut the ailerons in to have that bit more "control" lol.. i might also try to melt some of the hot glue in the elevator so it moves more free. if that doesnt work, i might try to pull the tail off and turn it the right way round..

if all that doesnt work, a full new build kit is $40... since i have all the electronics already.

 

[AIRFORGE]

In the video, are you intentionally moving the rudder and elevator at the same time, or are they being controlled by only one stick?

 

[smbundy13]

In the video, are you intentionally moving the rudder and elevator at the same time, or are they being controlled by only one stick?

not intentionally moving together. they are on the same stick.. should they not be? i am going to setup ailerons when i repair
rebuild. which stick should each control be on? throttle currently left stick, elevator and rudder on right.

 

[Foamforce]

not intentionally moving together. they are on the same stick.. should they not be? i am going to setup ailerons when i repair
rebuild. which stick should each control be on? throttle currently left stick, elevator and rudder on right.

I would hold off on the ailerons. They’re not necessary and they’re one more thing that you can mess up while you’re learning to fly. Most beginner airplanes don’t use them for that reason. If you were stalling, then ailerons wouldn’t have helped.

Regarding Airforge’s question, the elevator should be up/down on the right stick and your rudder should be left/right, also on the right stick. How were you moving the right stick in the video? If you were moving at a diagonal from top/right to bottom/left, then this movement would be expected. But if you were moving only left/right, or only up/down, then only one of the control surfaces should move.

 

[smbundy13]

I would hold off on the ailerons. They’re not necessary and they’re one more thing that you can mess up while you’re learning to fly. Most beginner airplanes don’t use them for that reason. If you were stalling, then ailerons wouldn’t have helped.

Regarding Airforge’s question, the elevator should be up/down on the right stick and your rudder should be left/right, also on the right stick. How were you moving the right stick in the video? If you were moving at a diagonal from top/right to bottom/left, then this movement would be expected. But if you were moving only left/right, or only up/down, then only one of the control surfaces should move.

I was focusing on moving it only up and down but might have slightly moved l/r as well.. I might try to run the rudder on the left stick.. once i figure out how to do that with the transmitter..

 

[Piotrsko]

Both incidents also sound like tip stall from an improperly trimmed airplane. Could be just a reqular stall with control bashing, but.......

 

[AIRFORGE]

I was focusing on moving it only up and down but might have slightly moved l/r as well.. I might try to run the rudder on the left stick.. once i figure out how to do that with the transmitter..

It's ok to have elevator and rudder on the right side stick for a 3 channel setup, as long as each can be controlled seperately. If you can't control them seperately, something is set up incorrectly.

 

[smbundy13]

Both incidents also sound like tip stall from an improperly trimmed airplane. Could be just a reqular stall with control bashing, but.......

ok, please explain or my inexperience.. improperly trimmed how? like the controls and such?

It's ok to have elevator and rudder on the right side stick for a 3 channel setup, as long as each can be controlled seperately. If you can't control them seperately, something is set up incorrectly.

they can move independently, I think it was just moving the stick and filming caused it to slightly move.

I have the radiomaster pocket transmitter and had a heck of a time getting the channels worked out. I hooked it up as a 3 channel like in the video with the rudder on channel 2 and the elevator on channel 3.. but something got fouled up a bit and eventually my throttle would trigger on anything other than down and to the left of the left stick. it was strange.. took some doing but i think it got figured out.. eventually..

thanks for yalls info.

 

[Foamforce]

I was focusing on moving it only up and down but might have slightly moved l/r as well.. I might try to run the rudder on the left stick.. once i figure out how to do that with the transmitter..

In the video it looks the rudder is moving to almost full deflection. Can you try again and verify? If you’re being careful to only move up and down, you should get, at most, a small wiggle in the rudder. What we’re seeing in the video is what we should see if you held the rudder almost all the way over.

Can you verify?

Ps, don’t move your rudder to the left stick and don’t add ailerons. When you’re in 3 channel, you have the correct setup. You’ll mess yourself up later if you move your rudder to the left stick without ailerons.

 

[Merv]

...the plane took off then about 10 feet up, went hard left and then nosed down...

It could be you pulled up fast & stalled the plane. When planes are not going fast enough, the wings will quit producing lift, they will "stall", they will drop out of the sky. Normally one wing will stall before the other & cause a roll. If you try & climb too fast the plane slows down, try climbing slower next time, that is pull back on the stick less.

A wing stall at 200 feet can be a lot of fun, you will have time to recover, but a stall at 10 feet is a disaster.

...this is my first RC plane so i have no idea how to set things up...

You want to make sure the controls are not reversed. Stand behind the plane tail of the plane. Move the rudder stick to the right & the rudder should move to the right. Pull back on the elevator stick & the elevator should come up. Moving the aileron stick to the right, the right aileron should come up.

If your controls are reversed the plane will do the opposite of what you want. It's an easy fix to reverse a control in the transmitter. It a good practice to check the control direction before each flight.

 

[L Edge]

First of all, welcome to the forum and second of all, don't get discourage. Now I know why you stalled out, rolled over and down. Every time you fly, video it and see what you are doing wrong or the forum can help you.

Look at your video and my god, you are overloading your elevator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look at the bend in the wire of the elevator when you apply up elevator(it jams it and having no where to move, bends the wire. Simply put, you didn't set it up correctly.

Solution:
The arm of the servo is swinging too much for the elevator's travel. Your kit instructions gives the range of how much up/down you should have. You need to reduce the servo's arm in the elevator control is in the neutral position and when you full pull up it matches the travel suggested in the instructions. Do the same for the dual range deflection. Then add about 20-30 % expo to soften the change of moving the stick.

For the rudder acting as a trainer, separate from the elevator and learn you need to turn aileron left or right as well as adding some up elevator to make that turn.

Now, put your plane back together, as they say, fly, crash, rebuild, but learn from your mistakes. Again, welcome.

 

[L Edge]

Right there with you. Built my first yesterday. Took it out and up, and hard crash straight down from about 12’ up after about 6-7 seconds. Powe pod skewers pushed back about 1/2” and down an 1/4”. Was able to pull it back forward and “locked in” to original holes well enough I felt safe enough for a second go. Pretty much same thing but instead of nose dive, was more of little wing and wheels…

I have no idea what I am doing either. My plan is following:

1) out some reinforcement “holes” on all sides of skewers… picked some up on FT Store… didn’t think to use them initially. Might use some tape for the holes too…

2) fill in skewer “cuts” with some bits of foam and foam glue.

3) adjust max trim in TX16s for rudder and elevator… I thought it would be ok… maybe that wasn’t even my issue… but I should have done it.

4) investigate what “dual rate” really means and set a switch to adjust that in case things are too sensitive for me as a beginner.

4a) i did put some “curves” in for R/E as I heard about while setting TX16s in… think it was mentioned in build video too.

Anyways yeah, about 12-seconds of flight time for me. This was a Mighty Mini Cub, but have a Trainer to build as well.

If you want to catch on quick, try to learn by pulsing the stick rather than moving or slaming it. Two advantages is that it will help you think by not play "catchup" to bad flying maneuvers and help you when the plane is facing you or inverted. No need to remember which way. By pulsing, you can adjust the wrong direction since it has very small change and you can quickly correct making the opposite move and make it look professional.
If you ever fly heli, it keeps the heli level in forward flight. No tilting forward.

 

[JayMor]

If you want to catch on quick, try to learn by pulsing the stick rather than moving or slaming it. Two advantages is that it will help you think by not play "catchup" to bad flying maneuvers and help you when the plane is facing you or inverted. No need to remember which way. By pulsing, you can adjust the wrong direction since it has very small change and you can quickly correct making the opposite move and make it look professional.
If you ever fly heli, it keeps the heli level in forward flight. No tilting forward.

Thank you for the advice. I will give this a shot. I haven't spent as much time in the simulator as I probably should have either. Keep meaning to do it, but my day was unexpectedly clear and just wanted to build and see what things were like. At least it wasn't too bad.

 

[smbundy13]

First of all, welcome to the forum and second of all, don't get discourage. Now I know why you stalled out, rolled over and down. Every time you fly, video it and see what you are doing wrong or the forum can help you.

Look at your video and my god, you are overloading your elevator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look at the bend in the wire of the elevator when you apply up elevator(it jams it and having no where to move, bends the wire. Simply put, you didn't set it up correctly.

Solution:
The arm of the servo is swinging too much for the elevator's travel. Your kit instructions gives the range of how much up/down you should have. You need to reduce the servo's arm in the elevator control is in the neutral position and when you full pull up it matches the travel suggested in the instructions. Do the same for the dual range deflection. Then add about 20-30 % expo to soften the change of moving the stick.

For the rudder acting as a trainer, separate from the elevator and learn you need to turn aileron left or right as well as adding some up elevator to make that turn.

Now, put your plane back together, as they say, fly, crash, rebuild, but learn from your mistakes. Again, welcome.

yep, I think I might try that. help me out.. what is "Expo" is it changed in the transmitter settings?

Edit, i figured out what expo is and adjusted some in the transmitter.. will try the plane out in a bit

 

[smbundy13]

Update, got some things put back together. Flew the plane again, was successful several times. Let it get to speed before pulling up. I still need to practice. Annnddd might need a new power pod and probably a new body. Nose dive into the ground from about 20 feet. Crushed in the nose, Bent the pod and cracked the wood firewall. Think it might be good to build a new tutor and try to do a better job with what I learned on the first one.

nose dive into the ground.. but the hobby store prop held up great

power pod

firewall

I am going to order a whole new airframe and power pod in a couple days/end of the month and give her another go.

 

[AIRFORGE]

You're making progress! Keep at it. Keep asking questions. Keep learning.
While you're waiting for parts, get a simulator, and practice, practice, practice.