Twitchity quad with power board - test build

Twitchity

Senior Member
Glad to see you're already putting the quad through its paces ;) I really think the remainder of your problem is coming from those DYS motors. My quad I loan out for others to learn to fly has CF arms with the 1806's are seems to perform similar to yours, but my quad with the 2204's is much different.

That's a bummer to hear about how that LHS treated your wife, especially since you fly more than just multirotors. The big chain LHS around me don't have anything I could use or want except maybe a battery charger so I'm forced to order online. It's a shame more of these stores don't have DIY parts since it's an extremely large portion of the consumer base.

That is also one gigantic cutting mat you have there.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Glad to see you're already putting the quad through its paces ;) I really think the remainder of your problem is coming from those DYS motors. My quad I loan out for others to learn to fly has CF arms with the 1806's are seems to perform similar to yours, but my quad with the 2204's is much different.

Really wanted to do some serious tuning on it today, but we had crazy winds that may last through the weekend :( I'm sure the motors are a big part of it - but they are behaving much better with the KISS. Even so I know when I bench tested them before they all had a rough spot around 3/4 throttle - but smoothed out above that. So it could be that same thing happening again. Just seems to be a resonant spot. I'm already running TPA up at 0.60 - it does seem to be helping as I crank it up but that's getting a bit ridiculous. I'm also still at 5 on my P and the default 0.030/23 on I/D. I suspect dialing back D a bit will help and I can easily drop P some more...but man I like how responsive it is up where it is until I hit that rough spot.

Just confirmed with moto moto that his modified version of 2.3 will run on the nano though so I'm probably going to flash that which will let me go from 2.1 to 2.3, enable failsafe and still keep oneshot. With functioning failsafe I'll feel a lot more confident and will be able to push it a lot harder in a big area. Right now with the version of MW that comes with the nano and no failsafe I'm being very cautious and keeping it close - which also means I'm pushing it less than I'd like.

Probably going to tackle that tonight before I crash out still. It will get 2204's at some point, I promise you it will. But it will probably take a small step backwards first as the current plan is to steal the KISS from it to go on the hex - and try some ZTW Spider 12a's on it until I can afford 4 KISS and 2204's. Maybe for my birthday in March I'll be able to pull that off.

That's a bummer to hear about how that LHS treated your wife, especially since you fly more than just multirotors. The big chain LHS around me don't have anything I could use or want except maybe a battery charger so I'm forced to order online. It's a shame more of these stores don't have DIY parts since it's an extremely large portion of the consumer base.

Real bummer is that it's not just how they treated my wife, it's how they treat everyone who doesn't need Horizon/Great Planes parts and/or doesn't race on their track. I don't have high hopes for the chain...but I do like that our little town is finally attracting one. It's been over 20 years since I lived within an hour of a decent hobby store and I miss it. I grew up about 20 minutes from an amazing multi-generation family run store that just last year shut down due to the proprietor retiring and his kids not wanting to keep it going anymore :( (It was the store I got my steam engine at, most of the balsa kits I built as a kid, and where I would drool over the 4ch FM radios and dream of the day I could afford one and actually fly a plane!) Town I went to college in had a hobby store...but it was tiny and didn't stock much of anything. I swear it was run by the comic book store guy from the Simpsons too. When I moved here we had a small hobby section at a local craft store - the son of the owners ran it to support his own hobbies. They actually had a decent selection for such a small place. But then he went to college and his parents retired and shut the whole place down a year or two after I moved here. Since then we haven't had anything until this new guy opened up. He started as a trailer that would show up at the local car track and then about 2 years ago opened a retail store. But his main focus has always been ground vehicles. I really have to believe the main reason more locally owned stores don't carry stuff for DIYers is because of the agreements they have to sign to carry the major RTF lines. We had a friend of our family who's husband opened a hobby store when I was in middle school and even back then he more or less confirmed that suspicion as he was frustrated that he couldn't operate without carrying the ready to drive/fly stuff - but to do so he had to agree not to carry stuff that the manufacturers felt was their competition. It's one of the big reasons I'm not a fan of Horizon even though they make some good stuff.

That is also one gigantic cutting mat you have there.

Yeah, I think she actually went one size bigger than I requested :D Now I just need a bigger room so I can fit a bigger table :D
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Ok, Moto Moto's MultiWii_MotoWii_RevB_V3 sketch loaded and configured. I have it setup with profiles now and my previous settings loaded into profile 1, defaults in 2, and defaults with my rates/expos in 3. Failsafe confirmed working finally so I'll feel a lot better doing some punch outs and flying far enough away from myself I can really open it up tomorrow.

I think moto uses a different gyro LPF by default. It appears to be set to 98hz in the sketch, default is supposedly 256hz but I know Naze tends to run 42hz by default. I'm not sure what nanowii was using by default but I suspect it was 256hz as well.

Bench tests feel a LOT better. I'm not seeing the oscillations anymore. It could be the LPF setting which is something I was going to start experimenting with next it's just tricky to experiment with on MW since it requires modifying the config.h and reflashing - though I do have an arduino environment on my phone and could potentially do that from there I've yet to be brave enough to try...might try it from the Nexus 7 I gave myself (and my wife - we had bought it for our daughter but then got a good deal on an asus memo7 that we gave her instead) today. (It will be mostly mine though since my wife still has a nook color that works while my nook color was claimed by our daughter a few years ago and broken by my wife a few weeks ago.)

Anyway, point is with the freshly fully well balanced props and the new sketch it's feeling a LOT better bench testing and with failsafe working I'm ready for some serious testing. Even if it's windy tomorrow I'll give it a try.

Motors still sound like hell, which is even more apparent with the KISS's since there's so much less PWM noise. But I'm getting almost nothing on the gyro graphs now and it feels nice and smooth. If I had lights on it I'd be out there flying it right now :)
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Test flight in the front yard went great! The new sketch has it flying amazing now. I'm guessing that gyro LPF setting is what made the big difference by helping to mask some of the vibrations. Got a bit of video...but the neighbors daughter made a cameo so I don't want to post it without her parents permission ;) Will hit the park in a bit to try and get some better video.

But it's flying really really well now.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Flights at the field went outstandingly well. The quad is flying amazing now. However.

Anyone with a V2 PDB board - be careful. There may be a potential weakness in the board. I'm not sure yet just what caused it but I had a short in the PDB/Frame that conducted through one of the arm screws getting it hot enough the head of the screw melted off. ESC's and motors were still cool, but that arm and corner of the frame almost burned me they were so hot.

I'm not sure just what caused it yet - have to run some errands while my video downloads then I'll tear it apart and get a closer look. But it appears there may have been some damage to the soldermask near the positive motor pad of the right rear motor. I'm not sure if the bolt was conducting or the arm, but something was conducting and since the bolt melted I'm assuming it was the bolt. No sign of any wires chafing against the frame and it was still flying well...but something shorted out there. I did have some good hard hits (frame is tough!) so maybe the force of a hit broke the bolt and pushed it into the power pad...the arm is still tight enough I can't move it though so I'm not big on that theory.

As for the flying....

On the "stock" pids/rates it flew - but was very lethargic. I could flip but not very easily due to the slow rates. Would be good for a beginner just learning and not looking to do any acrobatics.

On the stock PIDS but with my higher rates it was kind of the worst of both worlds :) Snappy response and full range...but sloppy and lethargic.

With my PID's and rates it was a blast. I could probably dial the rate back just a bit in fact. The oscillations seem to be gone - or at least very very minimal and only at full throttle. I'm thinking it's the LPF that did the trick there. Really my piloting skills were the limiting factor.

Hate this smell of burned fiberglass. Bleah. Need to let it air out while I do my running around. Really tempted to tear it down and see what happened...but need to get these errands done.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Before I go...a few quick photos....video from the field of me explaining the issue uploading to my YT channel as well.

Note the exposed copper where the soldermask was damaged under the head of the bolt. Not sure if that was a cause or effect:
10883786_10152468729196805_388908118_o.jpg

Looks like quite a bit of screw is missing:
10878488_10152468731866805_708674036_o.jpg

Melted off:
10884278_10152468732746805_1681183178_o.jpg

The signal wire was damaged - but I don't think it was the cause - I think this was due to how hot the wire got. It doesn't look like there was any abrasion, just heat. And that wire would melt through from a short before it could conduct enough current to melt a 3mm aluminum bolt. Plus that ESC still works....so I'm 99% sure this is effect and not cause. But I do notice some scuffs on the top CF which could be related to a short.
10878635_10152468733466805_550811845_o.jpg

Really scratching my head trying to figure out what may have shorted here. Will do a full teardown when I get back from facing the post-Christmas crowds. Thankfully I don't have to return anything so I should be able to avoid the worst of the worst today ;)
 

Twitchity

Senior Member
I'm interested to hear your opinion once you get the quad torn down as to what the cause was. From the pictures it looks like the nut/bolt was tightened down too tight and broke through the solder mask.

I'm not sure if you'll be able to remember, but did you tighten the bolt and hold the locknut in place, or hold the bolt and tighten the locknut? I assembled my quad with the bolts going through the PDB with the locknuts on top of the frame and I would hold the bolt in place with an allenwrench and use a wrench to tighten the locknut down. If nothing else got damaged some nylon washers between the bolt/PDB should solve the problem.

On a side note... I believe I burnt up one of my KISS 18a ESCs this evening... I was practicing acro flying and hit the grass a few times (both at low throttle) and immediately cut the throttle upon impact. After the second time I noticed one of my motors wouldn't spin up, then saw a little bit of smoke come from the ESC. The motor doesn't look like it got damaged, but I'll have to swap out an ESC and check. There shouldn't have been any reason this ESC burnt up as I've put the EMAX ESCs through a lot worse and they are still working. I may be looking at alternative ESC choices for my future builds if this is the kind of abuse the KISS ESCs can withstand.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
I'm interested to hear your opinion once you get the quad torn down as to what the cause was. From the pictures it looks like the nut/bolt was tightened down too tight and broke through the solder mask.

That's my guess as well, I'm not sure where it got the positive side of the connection from though which is what has me concerned. Going to do some testing with the continuity meter before I disassemble.

I'm not sure if you'll be able to remember, but did you tighten the bolt and hold the locknut in place, or hold the bolt and tighten the locknut? I assembled my quad with the bolts going through the PDB with the locknuts on top of the frame and I would hold the bolt in place with an allenwrench and use a wrench to tighten the locknut down. If nothing else got damaged some nylon washers between the bolt/PDB should solve the problem.

I almost always tighten the nut since I Have that little aluminum wrench I use that gives me a good feel for how tight things are. Since I use the stubby arms on it to push against it's hard to overtighten things. I did have it assembled with the nuts on this side originally - I'm wondering if maybe I scratched the soldermask when I did that. Nylon washers should fix it as that is the only thing that got damaged - but I'm a little worried about them "softening" the frame and taking out some rigidity. To be safe before ordering more PDB's I'd suggest increasing the gap around the bolt holes a bit more so there's no chance of them contacting the copper pours even if the soldermask gets damaged.

On a side note... I believe I burnt up one of my KISS 18a ESCs this evening... I was practicing acro flying and hit the grass a few times (both at low throttle) and immediately cut the throttle upon impact. After the second time I noticed one of my motors wouldn't spin up, then saw a little bit of smoke come from the ESC. The motor doesn't look like it got damaged, but I'll have to swap out an ESC and check. There shouldn't have been any reason this ESC burnt up as I've put the EMAX ESCs through a lot worse and they are still working. I may be looking at alternative ESC choices for my future builds if this is the kind of abuse the KISS ESCs can withstand.

That's a bummer. I had quite a few good hard hits before this today (I only flew acro today and resisted the urge to relax with horizon) and had no issues from the KISS - but the ground is very dry here. When I thought I saw a puff of smoke just as my battery buzzer went off and then smelled burning electronics when I landed I thought for sure a KISS had gone up...but all the props were still spinning and the ESC's were all cool to the touch.

ESC's, motors, FC all fine. It really seems that somehow the frame/PDB shorted out through this screw was the big problem. I'm really curious to see in there and figure out what happened. I had meant to put some liquid electrical tape on the solder pads before assembly but forgot since I did it late at night. Going to kick myself if it looks like something conductive got in there and shorted the pad to the screw and that could have prevented this. Thankfully it still flies and all is well other than the screw being melted.


Here's the last few minutes of flight...I can't see the puff of smoke in the video that I thought I saw in person. You can see the hardest crash of the day though:


And here's my post-morterm at the field:


Will check back later tonight once I have time to disassemble it properly.
 

HawkMan

Senior Member
There must be more than one place where the bolts have gone through for a short though ? both the positive and negative needs to be shorted through the bolt, if it was just the positive going down to the bolt nothing should really happen, unless it also has a path to negative/ground ?
 

Twitchity

Senior Member
The whole bottom side of the PDB is ground, top is positive, and there's a gap around each hole where there isn't any copper pour so it's impossible for + to come in contact without some form of external factor. Even if there wasn't solder mask on either side, you still wouldn't get a connection between the two plates (minus the CF being conductive) unless there was an external bridge between the two.

I'm wondering if your battery wires rubbed through somehow? Or maybe it was the signal wire that created enough resistance to heat up the bolt. I'm looking at a PDB scratching my head as to what caused the problem. Can't wait until you post some disassembled pictures.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Still haven't had time to disassemble. The copper doesn't come right up to the bolt...but you can see that it does come close enough that the head of the bolt was able to touch where the copper is exposed. So that explains where the bolt got it's ground contact. The big question is where did it get it's positive.

It couldn't be the signal wire. That little wire would have burned through long before enough current could have flown to melt the bolt and heat things up this much. Plus the ESC/FC are fine and if that signal wire had shorted I'd expect both of them to be showing issues. The damage to the signal wire was just from the heat of the bolt I'm almost 99% sure.

The positive motor pad is right there next to the bolt so I'm guessing something there got bridged somewhere. I've checked all the ESC power wires and the batter power wires and they all look good. The only other thing I can think is if the positive battery wire where it was pinched (and I shared a photo earlier) broke through the insulation and the electrical tape and shorted out against the top plate...then the top would have been live and if the solder mask over the bottom ground plane was compromised and the bolt was making contact with it the bolt would have been a perfect conductor between the top plate and the ground plane and explain everything.

We'll know more once I get it apart. Starting to get my daughter ready for bed though so it may be a bit more until I can dig in fully.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Just checked with the ohm meter...and I'm seeing continuity between the power leads and the frame. Now I really want to get it apart and see what's going on...I can't tell yet if this is a symptom of the burn or the cause of the burn....
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Well, I think I see what happened.

Removing the other long screws I found that all of them were in contact with the ground plane due to the solder mask being worn off. The short screws which had their nuts on this side also had the same issue. Almost every hole the solder mask wore at the edges allowing the screws to be part of the ground plane. A V3 PDB with a larger gap between the hole and the copper pour could eliminate this entirely:
10834755_10152469381656805_572722290_o.jpg

With the top plate removed things got ugly quick:
10874233_10152469396426805_1849369822_o.jpg

A quick check shoed that the electrical tape did not fail though and the power leads were not in contact with the frame...so that's good:
10886113_10152469396636805_1986900062_o.jpg

The PDB however was ugly:
10876749_10152469396876805_2044799910_o.jpg

So much is burned it's hard to tell just what happened:
10884285_10152469398561805_1435652041_o.jpg

Can't tell from the photos - but the insulation on the power wires is all intact...discolored from the nearby heat...but intact:
10886611_10152469399316805_2049876273_o.jpg

The arm is damaged though which gives a good indication that it was part of the circuit/problem.
10876611_10152469407206805_777576185_o.jpg

Looking at one of the other arms I believe the story comes togeter...look closely:
10884260_10152469414076805_927841462_o.jpg

I'll move the arm aside so it's more obvious:
10892481_10152469413646805_447476084_o.jpg

I think there were two things that contributed to this failure - and they can both be avoided with some extra precautions on the V2 board and eliminated entirely on a V3 board.

Both issues are due to the solder mask failing.

The first is the ground pour coming too close to the holes allowing the nuts/heads to wear the solder mask when tightened. The exposed copper was not visible until I removed the screws so it wasn't from my wrench it was from the screws/nuts themselves. Maybe I over-tightened them a touch, but....

The second issue is that it appears the arms can move just enough to wear through the solder mask on the positive side as well. I did sand the edges of the arms even here (the slight bevel is visible in some of the photos) but I didn't get these little tiny bits past the screw holes very well. I'm going to go back and touch them up to help prevent this from happening again. Even so the arms can apparently move just enough (I can't even budge them by hand...but in a crash...) that after a few hard crashes they may compromise the solder mask and become part of the power plane.

When the arms became part of the power plane and the screw was part of the ground...a short happened - which explains why I heard my beeper go off (even though upon later inspection the pack wasn't low enough for the beeper to fully activate like it did) and saw a small puff of smoke. That was likely the screw melting through I saw.

E-mail sent to twitchity to order a replacement arm and a new screw. I don't want to speak for him, but I suspect he'll do a v2.5 or v3 of the PDB and widen the gap around the holes on the ground plane and/or remove some of the pour from the positive side around the arms. It's a fairly easy fix and as far as I know he doesn't have a bunch of PDB's already made so a modification should be easy to do before ordering more.

Anyone currently flying a V2 board I'd suggest taking a few precautions. Making sure you've sanded the edges of the arms where they extend in the frame is the first thing. Second I'd add a wrap of electrical tape around the arms where they extend - at least on the bottom where they contact the PDB. Third I'd add some kind of insulating washer under the nuts/screw heads on the ground side. I'm not sure if nylon washers would be a good idea though - I think they'd weaken the frame by preventing the screws from being fully tightened. I'm thinking maybe some mylar sheet or even bits of posterboard. It needs to be something strong enough to handle the torque of the screws being tightened without tearing...but still non-conductive. I'll have to do a bit of brainstorming to come up with something.

If you were careful about sanding ALL of the arm edges, and you fly sedately...this probably isn't a big concern. I had quite a few hard crashes today (the one in the video above was the last and one of the worst) and was flying well outside my comfort range for most of the time I was out there.

I'll also add that I've been thinking about doing a bulk buy on FC props with my co-worker who's getting the G10 frame. But after today I'm really starting to second guess that. They're a lot cheaper than the HQ's...but I've been going through them really quick. Even mildly rough landings I've been breaking them or at least getting "white roots" on them. I've been averaging 2-3 FC props a day flying a pack or two at lunch in the backyard. The FC's I had on today lasted about 45 seconds...one good loss of orientation out at a distance and 3 of them snapped at the root when the ground and my quad got acquainted. I swapped to the HQ's and despite several harder crashes I only managed to take out one prop....even that last crash in the video above didn't even result in any white spots on the HQ's. I'm still not 100% sure the HQ's are fully worth their extra cost...but they do hold up a LOT better than the FC's it seems. They cost about 3x more...I'm not sure they hold up 3x better...but they do hold up quite a bit better and I'm probably going to try and stick with them going forward. At least as long as my budget allows. I'll probably still pick up some FC's for testing and bashing...but the HQ's really are far better props.
 

Twitchity

Senior Member
I would have expected the solder mask to be a little more robust than that. I can understand what happened to the bottom side, but not the top where the arm rubbed through it so easily. I took out the ohm meter last night and checked the + and - battery leads on my quad for resistance between them and the CF. Turns out both leads would show resistance when checked against the CF. I tore it apart and the solder mask on the bottom is worn through (not as bad as jhitesma's) in a few places, but the top is in perfect shape. My only guess is the ESCs are completing the circuit between + and - which is allowing me to get a resistance reading between the + battery lead and the CF.

I will be reworking the design and placing an order for some new PDB to be shipped out as soon as I get them in.

jhitesma, I'll be sending you a few replacement arms hopefully today. How did the top frame hold up too?
 

Balu

Lurker
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Never again question why I send you gifts, Jhitesma :). Your analysis will help a lot with my build. I'm going to try and get some mylar or something, but I'm not sure if that'll help a lot, since the arms might rub through that too?

I got this quad for one reason only: crash resistance. Because one thing that bothers me with my bigger ElectroHub is that even though it's easy to replace a wooden arm, it's still tedious to do that after every xth flight.

Looking at the burned parts I wonder if the pads for the ESC wires are too close to the arm/screw anyway?
 

Tritium

Amateur Extra Class K5TWM
Kapton (polymide) tape should stop any issues with the V2 PDB. Very abrasion resistant and good to 500 degrees F.

Thurmond
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
My only guess is the ESCs are completing the circuit between + and - which is allowing me to get a resistance reading between the + battery lead and the CF.

The FC could be completing the circuit as well. As I disassembled mine I checked the resistance before and after removing the FC and it went up after removing the FC, then up again after removing the ESC's. So your suspicion is correctly.

The solder mask under the other two arms looked fine. I must have just got unlucky. Solder mask isn't really all that strong, it's just meant to keep solder from sticking and provide a bit of insulation. I've nicked it before on other circuits, usually it's not a big deal since PCB's aren't usually in direct contact with conductive materials :)

I will be reworking the design and placing an order for some new PDB to be shipped out as soon as I get them in.

jhitesma, I'll be sending you a few replacement arms hopefully today. How did the top frame hold up too?

Send me an invoice for the new arm (really only need one) and an upgraded PDB (and a new screw/nut if you have any left) I don't mind paying for the bits I burn - you all have been so generous already you shouldn't have to pay for what my crashes expose :)

The top held up, but should probably be replaced. Most of the discoloration I was able to clean off - but there are a few bubbles in the CF around that arm now. Shows just how hot that arm got when it was an active part of the circuit :D


I stayed up until almost 2 rebuilding it last night, I used some of my black silicone self fusing tape under the arms, I figured it's a bit less likely to wear through than electrical tape. But...I'm not happy with it. It's too thick and soft and the frame is noticeably less stiff now. It's not as loose as the G10 frame was...but it's not the rock solid frame it was before.

I thought I had heard Kapton was actually bad at abrasion resistance? I don't have any on hand or anywhere local to get some but if I'm wrong about that I may have to pick some up. I may redo it today and just use the protective backing plastic from some DST or silicone tape...it seems really tough and is non-conductive. Maybe a layer of electrical tape then some of that ... will hopefully be less compressive but still give good abrasion resistance.

I also was careful to refinish the edges of the arms. That could be another reason no one else had this issue yet - I was really sloppy on my sanding and barely touched those inner parts. I kind of figured they'd be "out of sight out of mind" and didn't give them enough sanding to even see a bevel originally. Now they all have a nice sanded bevel on them so there's no more sharp edge to cut into the soldermask. Then again maybe I just have knack for crashing REALLY hard :D

@Balu - glad you're getting your money's worth out of me :D The frame is VERY crash resistant, it's just a few minor things with the PDB that resulted in this and they're things none of us managed to think of reviewing the design as obvious as it may be in hindsight. This is exactly the kind of thing I was worried about when we ordered the original PDB's and why I constantly pushed Twitch to slow down and give us more time to test them before ordering a second round :)

The pads are close...but not close enough to be a problem, if anything moves enough to contact those pads you've got much bigger problems :) I still thing the physical design of the frame is great, and the layout of the PDB is mostly good. We just didn't think to actually measure the screw heads/nuts and only took a guess at how much gap to leave. If that gap had been slightly larger then the top solder mask wearing wouldn't even be an issue. But doing another rev it only makes sense to correct both potential failure points. Plus there just isn't any room to put those pads anywhere else really :D
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Found the reference about Kapton I was thinking of:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapton
However, Kapton insulation ages poorly: an FAA study shows degradation in under 100 hours in a hot, humid environment.[5] It was found to have very poor resistance to mechanical wear, mainly abrasion within cable harnesses due to aircraft movement. Many aircraft models have had to undergo extensive rewiring modifications--sometimes completely replacing all the Kapton-insulated wiring--because of short circuits caused by the faulty insulation.
http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/ar082.pdf

Given the temps I see around here and the fact that it was abrasion that resulted in this issue I'm not sure Kapton would be a good choice to insulate in this particular situation.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Didn't take many photos of the reassembly last night...but here's one kind of worth sharing of the PDB after I cleaned it up with some alcohol:

10878441_10152469654751805_1455354515_o.jpg

Other than the burn most of the mess cleaned right up, it was just soot and such from the burning.

Just checked it out again and confirmed I'm seeing no continuity between the positive cable and the frame now, still seeing about 20ohms between the ground and the frame but that's to be expected with the screw heads in contact with the ground plane. I may take it back apart and try putting some liquid electrical tape on there...but I'm not convinced it will really help - I suspect as soon as I torque down the nuts it will just tear and allow contact again. Might try some disc's of parchment paper...it's silicone infused so it should be a good insulator and other than when first torqueing the nuts there shouldn't be any on-going movement around the nuts/heads.

After sitting overnight the silicone tape I put under the arms compressed down and I was about to get another turn or two in the arm screws - so the frame is tighter and less wobbly now. Gave it a quick test flight in the yard and it's doing great. But way too windy today to have any serious fun at the park.
 

Tritium

Amateur Extra Class K5TWM
That is certainly an interesting report on Kapton. I have used it for years and never had an issue but do not use it as I would standard electrical tape. It works well for me in a use such as clamped between two objects that need to be electrically isolated from each other. I guess here YMMV is the rule.

On another note every LiPo I have dissembled had Kapton / Polymide tape used in it at the terminal connection end.

Thurmond