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Pumpkin drop event

UAS Restration Requirement

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Geeto67

Posting Elsewhere
#61
I put my name and number on my craft. I have no issue whatsoever being held accountable to my neighbors.

The FAA is not registering craft. They are registering people. The risk is not my copter. The risk is loss of liberty and the loss of the rule of law by allowing the FAA to illegally prosecute citizens under this rule.

Why should I register myself, like a sex offender, to the federal government to use my own property on my own property? I have not been convicted of violating any federal laws. If the feds demand registration under such circumstances, they are violating federal law.

The proper thing to do is to prosecute everyone at the FAA who created this or any LEOs who enforced this illegal rule under title 18. It's the FAA who violated the law. It's the FAA employees who should be facing justice. Until they do, the FAA is a criminal organization.

Why should anyone register with a criminal organization to not be bullied by that criminal organization?

How do you think that is going to work out?

The FAA like the IRS is a swamp that needs draining. Registration just feeds it.
Now you are just being silly
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding faceplant!
Mentor
#62
Unfortunately, many people now believe that our Constitution and our rights in the Declaration of Independence even the very rule of law are silly.

IMO, that is the root of all this trouble and the big divide here in the USA in the first place.

If you don't like what I say, read the laws I quote (title 18 and Amendment 5) and tell me where you believe I am mistaken.

What doesn't work here or anywhere else is when people don't agree they attack each other instead of debating the law or the physics of a thing.

Calling another man's convictions, oath to the Constitution and the rule of law 'silly' gets our society nowhere.

Aim higher, Geeto67. For you, your country and our society.
 

Geeto67

Posting Elsewhere
#63
Unfortunately, many people now believe that our Constitution and our rights in the Declaration of Independence even the very rule of law are silly.
While I agree with the that statement, based on what you have said thus far I would put you in that category. Although it has always been here is some form, there has been a rise in what I would call "constitutional extremism" a form of interpretation that is ignores a lot of history and government to present the constitution as the only rule of the land. Even the framers didn't intend for it to be read that way, and it ignores several hundred years of government progression, evolution of the rule of law, jurisprudence, and our own basic history.

I'll tell you the two things that one of my professor mentors told me in law school:

1) "if you want to be a constitutional scholar, there are only about 10 of them, they all went to Ivy League schools, and before you can be considered even knowledgable on the subject you need to have read everything they have written and understand the flaws in each argument and the praises of each."

I'll give you a start if you are interested - Erwin Chemerensky wrote an excellent primer on understanding the constitution. It's not perfect, but it gives a person a great foundation, including context, for beginning to study the constitution. I caution you, my older addition is about 1200 pages and it may be longer now.

2) "every law, regulation, statute, etc... Is written in blood." What he meant was every single government action is solving a problem and it cost some American something of value (including maybe their life). The problem it is solving for or even the logic and meanings of words might not be readily apparent so reading the statute is not enough, you need to read the notes, the case law, other cases it cites, basically all the other ancillary information called jurisprudence before you can say you are knowledgable on a particular law.

IMO, that is the root of all this trouble and the big divide here in the USA in the first place.
The root of the problem is partisan politics, lack of good education on the subject of government, and the dunning-Kruger effect.

If you don't like what I say, read the laws I quote (title 18 and Amendment 5) and tell me where you believe I am mistaken.
Ok:
1) you don't understand there are different types of laws beyond criminal
2) you don't understand the scope of government agencies or the people holding office within them
3) you assume YOUR interpretation of how you read the law is the correct one and ignore any jurisprudence
4) you don't know how to properly cite anything correctly (hint there are more than 1 title 18's and I don't think you meant the constitutional amendment on prohibition)
5) you don't understand the actual powers the constitution grants or how it is deficient and why it relies on a larger body of government.
And those are just the basics. I'm sure if we spoke longer I could find more.

It's not that I don't like what you say, I find it highly entertaining. To me when you call for members of the FAA to be put in jail it's as if you said we should put Mickey Mouse in jail because he didn't make you laugh. See? Entertaining, but not something I can take seriously at all.

What doesn't work here or anywhere else is when people don't agree they attack each other instead of debating the law or the physics of a thing.
Don't take this as an attack, think of it like you are a 10 year old trying to tell a seasoned airline captain the ins and outs of trying to shoot an approach into JFK under severe weather conditions. You just don't have the knowledge, experience, or self awareness to know that you Lack those things to be having a conversation that merits being taken seriously.

Calling another man's convictions, oath to the Constitution and the rule of law 'silly' gets our society nowhere.
I am in a constant state of learning. I always assume I don't know enough and have to be open and ready to receive knowledge that may change my outlook and opinion. When it comes to government and law making you can't afford to have "convictions" because they are Static. Convictions are good for morals, general manners, etc but not something as ever changing as the law. I have no appetite for humoring your ego when you bring too little to the conversation. You may think your position or convictions are unique but I've had this same conversation complete with "I am reading x law, you tell me how I am wrong" at least a hundred times this year alone and in every singe case the other person's lack of knowledge, training, and experence has been the weak point. This one is no different. It's not an insult to tell someone the need to learn more about a subject, and be more open minded about what they learn, but if they choose to take it that way I can't help it, this medium doesn't allow me to smile, nod, and walk away.

I will humor your ego in the way: I 100% agree with your approach to this with respect to sending STEM kits to kids in school and your approach with kids in general, including leading by example. So keep up the good work in that area.

Aim higher, Geeto67. For you, your country and our society.
You as well.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding faceplant!
Mentor
#64
Government progress and 'evolution' (progressive for elimination) of the rule of law is the problem and root cause of the current swamp in DC. The last 100 years have seen people with government power forsake their oaths and create tyranny.

Title 18 sections 241 and 242 of the US Federal code. I was specific in an earlier message.

The Mickey Mouse analogy is a straw man. Not making me laugh is not a crime. Falsely accusing someone of a crime, arresting them, and trying them for a rule that is itself blatantly illegal is a serious crime that undermines citizen's respect for the offending party. I fail to see how you can equate the two.

I am a former US Army paratrooper. You will be hard pressed to find anyone anywhere who is more of a Constitutional 'extremist'. I wear that description and fly my colors and make my own ammunition with pride.

I do not find the Mickey Mouse straw man comparison to a potential violation of the Bill of Rights to be silly.


Please explain to me how our Constitution is deficient?

Until you can, I will continue to observe it and follow it, fight those who do not be they foreign or domestic no matter the odds and teach others to love the concepts of liberty and justice through flight.

Thank you, sir, for your consideration and your insight.
 

FlyingMonkey

Stuck in Sunny FL
Staff member
Admin
#66
Guys.

Remember where we are.

We have an amazing community of people who are able to share the hobby, discuss related topics, and do such with respect and kindness towards each other. We differ from the majority of internet forums because of this.

I do not like to edit, delete, or otherwise interfere with conversations on here, but I have seen this thread spiral towards something other than what fits within the Flite Test philosophy.


I am not saying we can't disagree, but keep the discussion to facts.

If you feel the need to make a negative comment about a person, instead of countering a point in a debate, then refrain from posting. If you're getting upset, then it's time to take a break, or walk away all together. Go back to the bench, work on a build or a repair, of if the weather allows, get out and fly something. Remember what we're in the hobby for. Enjoyment, and not frustration. Friendships, not fighting.
 

TexMechsRobot

Posted a thousand or more times
#67
I am not saying we can't disagree, but keep the discussion to facts.
I support this. I'm actually enjoying reading both sides of this debate as long as it stays civil. It seems likely that the two sides will have to agree to disagree at some point as both seem set in their ways. It is a lively topic and one that could have real world consequences so I'm glad to see it continue above the table with rational arguments and no name calling or passive aggressive behavior.
 

FlyingMonkey

Stuck in Sunny FL
Staff member
Admin
#68
I'll weigh in, and maybe take it a different direction that it's been heading.

What is the purpose of registration?

The FAA claims safety. But as we all know, that is not the reason behind the process. There's little to nothing about the registration process that improves the safety of drone use. At best, if the drone is involved in an incident that doesn't completely destroy the aircraft, and the pilot was compliant in labeling of their airframe portion of the registration process, you may be able to trace the ownership of the drone.

I look at what the government agency is willing to fine you over as a way to determine what they're really trying to do with the regulation. Everyone knows that the FAA will fine you large amounts for NOT registering. And the only fine I recall being mentioned when I completed my registration, was a threat against the person registering, if they provided inaccurate information.

So, to me, the whole process is for gathering data. They want names and numbers.

In a best case scenario, it's to be able to take those statistics to Congress for increases in their budget due to "X" number of drones in the airspace that they now need to regulate.

At worst, it's a way for them to track down all drone operators when automated drone routes are implemented. This way they can send out the cease and desist letters telling you where you can no longer fly, because Amazon, FedEx, TacoBell is using that airspace commercially.

Meanwhile we're arguing, and fighting over the minor details, further dividing ourselves, so that even if there's an opportunity to speak for ourselves, it will be a discordant voice, that won't have the power that a unified one would have.
 

Geeto67

Posting Elsewhere
#69
@FlyingMonkey

I have to say it is highly inappropriate to censor some comments that disagree with your own opinion that you then state in a following post, as you have done with removing my comment and your opinion above. I don’t mind if you had edited it to remove the personal comments directed at cranialrectosis but you pulled the whole thing and my only conclusion is you did so because you did not agree with it, not because it violated any particular terms.

At this point, as a moderator your message is clear: sensible discussion that disagrees with your opinion is not welcome here.

This thread isn’t a neutral discussion, it’s mostly fearmongering by a few political extremists who can’t be bothered to take the time to understand what’s actually going on.
 
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cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding faceplant!
Mentor
#70
Guess I missed a doozy. :)

I think much of what I have said here in this thread probably should be done in PM.

Sorry Fred.

Geeto67, feel free to PM your comment if you wish to discuss the US Constitution or political theory and history outside of flight and flying things. If I have offended you, I apologize. I take great care to make my posts about theory or facts and not about individuals. Sometimes I blow it and if I have here, I am truly sorry.



The FAA does not ask for a serial number or any other way to track the vehicle. Instead they demand personal information about me. This makes FlyingMonkey's best case seem unlikely to me as the FAA doesn't know what I fly, what their capabilities are or how many craft I have.

FlyingMonkey, supposing we do get a chance to speak for ourselves? I speak with Doug Lamborn by phone a few times per year. What does the forum think we should say? Can we create a letter to send to our representatives?

Can we get FT to invite President Trump to an FPV flight lesson like any good lobbyist would do? I like to take my copters down to the VA hospital in Pueblo and set up a monitor. I hand goggles to a vet and fly with the monitor, gives them a hell of a rush. We do it all with medical supervision (nurse and anyone with goggles on sits in a chair with arms) and I call the local airport tower (3 miles away) to be safe and sane.

POTUS loves vets. Can we convince FT to lobby Trump to a fly in at a VA hospital and let him see our side of the hobby?

It would make for one heck of a show. :)

Just be sure to let him fly the P38, not the Russian MiG. :D

Yeah these are long shots, but then so again is flight. Long shots are our hobby.
 

FlyingMonkey

Stuck in Sunny FL
Staff member
Admin
#71
@FlyingMonkey

I have to say it is highly inappropriate to censor some comments that disagree with your own opinion that you then state in a following post, as you have done with removing my comment and your opinion above. I don’t mind if you had edited it to remove the personal comments directed at cranialrectosis but you pulled the whole thing and my only conclusion is you did so because you did not agree with it, not because it violated any particular terms.

At this point, as a moderator your message is clear: sensible discussion that disagrees with your opinion is not welcome here.

This thread isn’t a neutral discussion, it’s mostly fearmongering by a few political extremists who can’t be bothered to take the time to understand what’s actually going on.
Sigh...

I didn't delete your comment. I hid it to give you the chance to edit it.

Had I edited myself, you'd still be making a fuss that things were unfair and that I was censoring your comments.

Had I been taking a side (against you as you're suggesting) all of your posts would have been removed.

Even in your post admitting your personal comments against another forum user were worthy of editing, you manage to fling a few more.

If you can not post without making personal comments, then you will be removed from the forum. That said we don't hold grudges. If you're able to participate in a civil manner, then you're welcome to continue to be a member of the forum.
 

Geeto67

Posting Elsewhere
#72
Guess I missed a doozy. :)

Geeto67, feel free to PM your comment if you wish to discuss the US Constitution or political theory and history outside of flight and flying things. If I have offended you, I apologize. I take great care to make my posts about theory or facts and not about individuals. Sometimes I blow it and if I have here, I am truly sorry.
I am not interested in wasting both our times. I will say most of what you have said here is not fact based and is fear monegring for no good reason other than to advance your personal political agenda. It is counterproductive.

What I find offensive is that this forum allows your comments to stand but when someone calls out your extremeist views it is deleted. The offensive comment that flyingmonkey referred to was that I thought your avatar was not ironic but fitting. The rest was just opinion he disagreed with about not panicking and taking the hobby into our own hands by being more focused on being inclusive to newbies and of self advocacy of our own practices so as not to give the government further reason to regulate.
 

FlyingMonkey

Stuck in Sunny FL
Staff member
Admin
#73
CR, I did not delete Geeto's most recent attempt to take the comment from a debate, into a personal argument. So please do not feel slighted that I left them.

They will remain to show that Geeto, who admitted the comment was worthy of editing because they were a personal attack (and in his own words "offensive"), then made a point to repost the same comment that I had hidden. Which is why he was banned.



The rest of it was ironic, because had he read what I had posted on the matter, he would have seen that between the two loudest views being voiced here, my comments leaned more towards his views on registration than others.

All that said, I'm going to close this thread and let folks take some time off from a topic that clearly a few people feel very strongly about.
 
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