What are the penalties for operating an fpv system above 200mW?

[Ted Kemper]

License Required

Anything above 10mw, a ham license is required. A Ham is required to transmit his/her call sign every ten minutes(Dragon link will do it) and, believe me, someone is listening. 15 dollars and a couple of weeks will open up a whole new world to you and, you wont be looking over your shoulder and giving the hobby a bad name by being an outlaw.




73
Ted
AF5QE

 

[makattack]

Callsign transmission isn't required in the usa, as long as it's rc control and your tx is marked appropriately.
§97.119 Station identification.
(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of
each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the
station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any
call sign not authorized to the station.

§97.215 Telecommand of model craft.
An amateur station transmitting signals to control a model craft may be operated as follows:
(a) The station identification procedure is not required for transmissions directed only to the model craft, provided that a label indicating the station call
sign and the station licensee's name and address is affixed to the station transmitter.
(b) The control signals are not considered codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning of the communication.
(c) The transmitter power must not exceed 1 W.

 

[earthsciteach]

Hey, Ted and welcome to the forums!

Good advice. Things have certainly changed since I started this thread. The FAA is trying to clamp down on all FPV flight. There is no need to give them any additional ammo in their quest to regulate the technology that is already available and inexpensive.

 

[IamNabil]

§97.215 has always been weird to me. It's not like the fcc to make an exception to their basic principles, like the ten minute identification thing. Not that I am complaining. It's weird, I've actually spent a whole lot more time on my kx3 lately, as opposed to flying an rc plane. I've been too busy learning to fly in N80657, in Shelburne. Since we are all now a bunch of hams, look for me on 20m, psk31.
Nabil, Kc1akw.

 

[Balu]

An amateur station transmitting signals to control a model craft may be operated as follows:

So, how do you think a video transmission FROM the model craft that doesn't control anything fits into that paragraph?

 

[IamNabil]

It doesn't. Your video must have your call sign in it.

 

[offaxis]

What is the watt limit on 5.8 fpv gear before it becomes illegal to transmit?

 

[makattack]

If you have a HAM license:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...=text&node=47:5.0.1.1.6&idno=47#se47.5.97_113
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...text&node=47:5.0.1.1.6&idno=47#se47.5.97_1313

Which is well summarized here: http://www.arrl.org/frequency-allocations

Without, for 5.8GHz, it's governed by:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retriev...ty=HTML&h=L&n=pt47.1.15&r=PART#se47.1.15_1249

 

[offaxis]

Awsome! Thanks for the links.

So according to section 15.249. A 200mW transmitter with 1.2 DBI antenna and 3 meters has a field strength of 927mV/m. According to the chart only 50mV/m is allowed. Also is having a gain of less then 33dBi allowed?

Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[makattack]

Yes, using this:

http://www.qsl.net/pa2ohh/jsvpm.htm

I get about 16mW allowable on 5.8GHz with FCC approved equipment, which this falls under:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/SPMVA1100-Manual.pdf

Unfortunately, neither the manual nor the product spec page details what the power output is, but the manual does say:

FCC Information
This device complies with part 15 of the FCC rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) This device may not cause harmful interference,
and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.
This product contains a radio transmitter with wireless technology which has been tested and found to be compliant with the applicable regulations
governing a radio transmitter in the 5740 to 5860mHz frequency range.

 

[1387]

I haven't had the time to read through all this thread, so bear with me if someone already said it:
For me in germany, I don't have to fear too much IF nothing happens during flight. So if I go flying with an unlegal transmitter, and I get spotted, one doesn't have to fear much other than paying a "minor" fee and losing your gear. But if something happens and you crash into something, you stand there without any insurance. And that is the bigger thing for me, I think. You could someday harm an object or worse a person and cause horrendous amounts of costs. With no insurance, that could end pretty bad for your future.

Just my 2 cents,
1387

 

[Balu]

You are very correct with the "bigger problem" that is insurance, but I read that your "minor fee" can still go up to EUR 50 000 in Germany...

 

[haha49]

Someone has asked whether fpv comes into the correct use for ham operation and whether a licence actually allows you to operate on ham frequencies. I don't think I've ever seen it answered. In australia we have free use of 2.4 and 5.8 up to 2w without any need for documentation.

That's due to the range you put 2w of power on a low frequence it goes really really far. It takes only 20w of power to bounce a signal around the world. Now the US has a station that pumps out 2 billion watts. They say it can make earthquakes which is placable as it does cause the ozone to bubble. It also creates weather as well as you can actually create a cloud if you want to with waves. It's kind of neat stuff if you get into it. Most of it is lab baised stuff but build big and see what happens is the science way.

Heres what people with hams do in the bush. What happens in the bush stays in the bush they simply don't have the funding like they used to go investigate and actually stop people from doing something. now if you mess with aircrafts and saftey stuff then they will go after you. If you pump out a large signal they will find you but reallisticly theyre not going to know squat. I even did a test with an airport took a 5.8ghz transmiter and put it in front of the weather radar (it uses 5.8) It does mess with it but not much.

 

[Ace2317]

I saw something a while back that if you bought an FPV setup and didn't make any changes to it, you were allowed to fly without a HAM license? Is that just outright false? Has anyone else ever heard that?

 

[Balu]

You can buy 600mW ImmersionRC video transmitters that you are not allowed to use unless you have a license. So no, you still have to buy the right stuff.

 

[llebreknit1]

So, for the United States, what is the highest allowable milliwatt on the 5.8ghz band for fpv without a license? 25mw? higher? I've seen the following which appears to be FCC approved without license:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...dle_w_Trinity_Head_Tracker_US_Warehouse_.html

Where would you find documentation for limits of transmitting power for the 5.8ghz band. Thanks.

 

[Ace2317]

This may have been mentioned before on this thread, but this thread has a couple good links and info here.

http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?15436-HAM-license/page2&highlight=ham

 

[Shakeyjake]

I don't understand what the issue is that creates a necessity for a ham radio license. What are you hurting by having or not having a ham license and operating the same fpv equipment, especially with 5.8ghz. I can understand when you get into 1.3ghz you can start mixing with a lot of other types of communication but I still don't understand the concept of having to get a license when the ultimate goal is to get the best video at the longest range without scrambling your'e control receiver channels, so effectively serious FPV guys will police their own signal transmission and recieving.

 

[sprzout]

It doesn't. Your video must have your call sign in it.

So how do you put your call sign into the video? My factory installed transmitter that came with my Inductrix Pro doesn't have the ability to enter one in to display it onscreen; nor does the video transmitter that was factory installed in my Conspiracy 220. Maybe I just point the camera on my drone at my call sign on my radio before each flight, and since I only get a 5 min. battery time on each one, I'm under that 10 min. rebroadcast?

 

[PsyBorg]

The licence is so you understand what you are doing. Obviously with the questions you are asking you do not.

An example within the community I will use is bleed over of FPV video signal when one person uses a larger VTX and everyone else is on low power. That one person has interfered with multiple people that are not on the same channel. If that can happen with dedicated video channels close to each other then that same interference can bleed over into voice dedicated frequencies that are close in range and block them out as well.

This is why there is a whole regulated system to manage all that. This way there is minimal interference between various groups or uses of the radio spectrum's available. The system is set up where for the most part it is self regulated where everyone tries to be aware of others rights to use it just as much as you have. The point behind the licence says that you know how it all works and that you have to make every attempt to not interfere with others using the system too. That is why you are only supposed to use the minimum power to get the task done you are trying to do. Just because you CAN transmit 600 mw with your VTX does not mean that you SHOULD transmit with 600mw.

Its not just us flying RC models using the 5.8 and 2.4ghz bands so there are a lot other things to take inconsideration that "Us FPV guys can not self regulate" for our own purposes when what we do can potentially effect others NOT in the FPV community.