What Did You Fly Today

[Hai-Lee]

I totally agree with @Hai-Lee. As a beginner not to long ago, actually still am in many aspects, so much to learn. I kept building plane after plane on the RET crutch and found that even though it seemed mentally easier to fly, that once I stepped up to the bank and yank AET the control become so much more dynamic and real time. To level out a plane with the sticks, dihedral or not, using the rudder also turns the yaw of the plane which adds a new control factor to the equation. AET will level out a plane, again dihedral or not, as u input on the Tx without the yaw variable, what you put into it is what you get out of it, which makes what you see up in the air more real time real feel kinda situation. That's what I find with it anyway. If I am wrong in that explanation, @Hai-Lee please correct me, but I don't think I will ever go back to a RET again.

My Spitfire, a warbird which is supposed to be harder to fly then most of the other designs besides the 3D airframes, as an AET was one of the easiest planes for me to fly. It was my get comfortable/go to/first in the air before any other/work out the initial jitters kind of plane. Initially when I first built it, it took me over a month to even work up the nerves to maiden it. Then looking at it one day when I was looking to fly one of my Minis i decided I wasn't going to let my 22000 3s batteries just sit around and took it out. Flew a couple packs in my Mini Scout to get the game down, hesitantly powered up the Spit, and i will tell you that maiden flew better then any of the Minis I was already used to, which were all RET set up.

As far as the building goes bud I would say just watching a lot of FT vids while building, and not just the designated build vid for the plane you are constructing, really helped me. And then just doing it builds the confidence as well. Pro tip... make sure your cuts are clean using a sharp blade and your folds are square.

The Mini Scout was actually my first successful flights on one of my builds, so I built 2 of them. I since have also run through a Simple Scout as well at a 4 channel set up and it was a dream to fly as well. Do you have just Mini power packs or do you fly your slender deltas on standard packs? Because the larger planes fly better then the Minis.

Your explanation is quite good so I will not add boring science to the explanation.

As for RET models, there are quite a few EXPERIENCED pilots locally that refuse to fly, Maiden, or teach on, anything RET. When a student starts converting to RET their crash rate actually goes up markedly! They are told to fly the old 3 mistakes high because it can take a lot of air to save a model which goes into a Dutch Roll. Ailerons on the other hand take far far less altitude to correct and the control is far more predictable.

I still fly and teach RET but seriously it is a bit of a pain as I am always being asked to take control to save the bird!

If you can fly RET then ailerons will be so easy you will kick yourself for not making the transition earlier!

Have fun!

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Your explanation is quite good so I will not add boring science to the explanation.

As for RET models, there are quite a few EXPERIENCED pilots locally that refuse to fly, Maiden, or teach on, anything RET. When a student starts converting to RET their crash rate actually goes up markedly! They are told to fly the old 3 mistakes high because it can take a lot of air to save a model which goes into a Dutch Roll. Ailerons on the other hand take far far less altitude to correct and the control is far more predictable.

I still fly and teach RET but seriously it is a bit of a pain as I am always being asked to take control to save the bird!

If you can fly RET then ailerons will be so easy you will kick yourself for not making the transition earlier!

Have fun!

What is Dutch roll exactly? I am sure I've done it many times just don't know what its called lol

 

[Hai-Lee]

What is Dutch roll exactly? I am sure I've done it many times just don't know what its called lol

Simply put, When you use coarse rudder to turn quickly the yaw causes one wing to speed up and one wing to slow down. The speed differences in the wings causes the faster wing to increase its lift and the slower wing loses some of its lift. The nett result is for the plane to roll due to the lift differences in the wings at the same time as the tail swings in the direction of the turn and rolls so that the rudder is now horizontal.

As a result of the roll and that the rudder tends to throw the nose in a downwards direction when the wings are at full bank, (like an elevator), the plane noses down sharply and a nose down spin can begin. If you know what you are doing it can enhance a turn in combat especially when used WITH ailerons but without ailerons the wing speeds MUST equalize for the roll/spin to end and the recovery to commence.

The nose down aspect of the rudder induced yaw and roll combination, (Dutch roll), means that if done with motor power applied the height lost can be massive. The need to allow the plane to regain straight line speed can eat up even more height and if you are not flying high enough the plane gets to eat the dirt as well!

It is fun to use the feature but NOT as the sole turning mechanism!

Just as I understand it!

Have fun!

 

[Vimana89]

I totally agree with @Hai-Lee. As a beginner not to long ago, actually still am in many aspects, so much to learn. I kept building plane after plane on the RET crutch and found that even though it seemed mentally easier to fly, that once I stepped up to the bank and yank AET the control become so much more dynamic and real time. To level out a plane with the sticks, dihedral or not, using the rudder also turns the yaw of the plane which adds a new control factor to the equation. AET will level out a plane, again dihedral or not, as u input on the Tx without the yaw variable, what you put into it is what you get out of it, which makes what you see up in the air more real time real feel kinda situation. That's what I find with it anyway. If I am wrong in that explanation, @Hai-Lee please correct me, but I don't think I will ever go back to a RET again.

My Spitfire, a warbird which is supposed to be harder to fly then most of the other designs besides the 3D airframes, as an AET was one of the easiest planes for me to fly. It was my get comfortable/go to/first in the air before any other/work out the initial jitters kind of plane. Initially when I first built it, it took me over a month to even work up the nerves to maiden it. Then looking at it one day when I was looking to fly one of my Minis i decided I wasn't going to let my 22000 3s batteries just sit around and took it out. Flew a couple packs in my Mini Scout to get the game down, hesitantly powered up the Spit, and i will tell you that maiden flew better then any of the Minis I was already used to, which were all RET set up.

As far as the building goes bud I would say just watching a lot of FT vids while building, and not just the designated build vid for the plane you are constructing, really helped me. And then just doing it builds the confidence as well. Pro tip... make sure your cuts are clean using a sharp blade and your folds are square.

The Mini Scout was actually my first successful flights on one of my builds, so I built 2 of them. I since have also run through a Simple Scout as well at a 4 channel set up and it was a dream to fly as well. Do you have just Mini power packs or do you fly your slender deltas on standard packs? Because the larger planes fly better then the Minis.

I have some slightly larger motors, 2806 and 2205 that I use for more small(but not really mini) to midsized builds. I've been building them small for time, space, and convenience. My 30" long and 42" long V Sliver slender deltas use(d) these motors, while most of my mini planes and Nutball types use the 1806, including the '39. I've got 4 1806's total, two in use and one more about to be, two 2205s which are free at the moment, and one 2806 which is in use on the original V Sliver.

I want to run the larger sized slender delta on a larger power pack, but a nicer build with elevons. I will try a normal 30" with elevons first. My 42" RET one had a nasty crash, because I tweaked some things, and forgot to screw or glue the servo arms and lost elevator control. Dumb mistake, but wasn't too mad, as I wanted to make some changes to that design anyway. From the few times I have flown a plane with ailerons, your description is pretty good. RET maneuvers are chopy if you are not used to doing them smooth and predicting how the plane will respond, because the plane has these extra sort of lags and responses other than just what you are feeding in from the control, because of roll and yaw being coupled and the auto leveling function of the dihedrals on top of that. Banking with ailerons does feel smoother and more "real time" as you put it.

 

[fluffpilot]

"Dutch Roll"
Now I know the exact term for how I broke the gear, wings, and two props off my Mini Scout.
Thanks! XD

 

[OliverW]

I flew nothing today. Ugh stupid school

 

[OliverW]

I flew nothing today. Ugh stupid school View attachment 141665

I am about to order a new canopy for the slick. You can see this one has a crack in it

 

[whackflyer]

@SquirrelTail which of the smaller electric extreme flight planes would you recommend for a beginner 3D pilot? I consider myself an accomplished pilot, just not that good at 3D.

 

[Vimana89]

Simply put, When you use coarse rudder to turn quickly the yaw causes one wing to speed up and one wing to slow down. The speed differences in the wings causes the faster wing to increase its lift and the slower wing loses some of its lift. The nett result is for the plane to roll due to the lift differences in the wings at the same time as the tail swings in the direction of the turn and rolls so that the rudder is now horizontal.

As a result of the roll and that the rudder tends to throw the nose in a downwards direction when the wings are at full bank, (like an elevator), the plane noses down sharply and a nose down spin can begin. If you know what you are doing it can enhance a turn in combat especially when used WITH ailerons but without ailerons the wing speeds MUST equalize for the roll/spin to end and the recovery to commence.

The nose down aspect of the rudder induced yaw and roll combination, (Dutch roll), means that if done with motor power applied the height lost can be massive. The need to allow the plane to regain straight line speed can eat up even more height and if you are not flying high enough the plane gets to eat the dirt as well!

It is fun to use the feature but NOT as the sole turning mechanism!

Just as I understand it!

Have fun!

I've noticed that Dutch Roll and nose dip on certain turns if I don't give enough elevator with RET planes.It is a bit slighter on some of my low aspect planes but really noticeable if I turn the '39 wrong. I've heard two different things referred to as "Dutch Roll", and I've used it to refer to wing rock/wobble whatever you want to call it, which is usually slight and harmless and can be snapped out of quick. I do tend to notice that planes that experience wing rock are also more prone to Dutch Roll as you have defined it here, so there is probably a relationship.

 

[Vimana89]

@SquirrelTail which of the smaller electric extreme flight planes would you recommend for a beginner 3D pilot? I consider myself an accomplished pilot, just not that good at 3D.

I have no 3d experience outside a sim, but maybe start with a plane that does very good high alpha and has a nice speed envelope for slower flight, maybe hovers and some mild aerobatics, like a Nutball or Flyer or certain deltas, and possibly play around with biplanes(for the aerobatic response feel at least).I've found biplanes to have some handling similarities to 3d birds in sim. I'm thinking it would be easier to transition into 3d with some experience in that.

 

[whackflyer]

I’ve had a MultiPlex Parkmaster Pro, so I’m not clueless about 3d just wondering where to start as far as a real 3d plane, thanks for your insight tho!

 

[buzzbomb]

I flew nothing today. Ugh stupid school View attachment 141665

Nose to the grindstone! You want to be able to buy that plane for your kid? Or more for yourself? Only one way to do it, my friend, and that means schoolwork comes first! (I feel for you, though. I hated school.)

 

[Vimana89]

I’ve had a MultiPlex Parkmaster Pro, so I’m not clueless about 3d just wondering where to start as far as a real 3d plane, thanks for your insight tho!

Plenty of people who fly lots of 3d, I'm sure somebody will know some good options for you.

 

[OliverW]

@SquirrelTail which of the smaller electric extreme flight planes would you recommend for a beginner 3D pilot? I consider myself an accomplished pilot, just not that good at 3D.

I would reccomend the 48" edge! It flies on rails! It just sinks when you come in to land like all of them

 

[buzzbomb]

I’ve had a MultiPlex Parkmaster Pro, so I’m not clueless about 3d just wondering where to start as far as a real 3d plane, thanks for your insight tho!

I'm not plugging myself. Watch the flight videos of my Mini Scout Biplane and it can do 3d. It's cheap to build and easy to fly. It's better than my flying skills.

I say I'm not plugging myself, because that's just the easiest plane I've ever flown to be able to prop-hang from. If you watch the vids, I'm not good at it. But it's got a whole lot of wing, with an F pack is overpowered for it's size and I truly believe it can do 3d as is, and maybe even better with improvements.

The FT 3d is an obvious option. I haven't built it yet. It's on my list.

I'm really interested in 3d flying myself. There's just something wonderful about hovering a plane, just in front of you, on the prop and controlling it. I'm working on it.

I'm currently hoping my Mini Scout Speed Racer might some day fit the bill for an easy to build, F pack, 3d flyer. I haven't been able to spend a lot of time with it lately, but I'm thinking a symmetrical wing on that bird might just be a great entry into 3d flying. There just isn't a "F" pack easy to build 3d flyer out there, that I know of.

I want to be able to crash and burn without remorse. The Edge is capable, but it HURTS to crash it. I'm looking at cheap and easy and 3d.

You are welcome to take the design to the next step if you want. I took the Mini Scout and elongated the fuselage and moved the wing and increased the control surface size and changed a lot of other stuff. It's almost there. It just needs the right wing.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Simply put, When you use coarse rudder to turn quickly the yaw causes one wing to speed up and one wing to slow down. The speed differences in the wings causes the faster wing to increase its lift and the slower wing loses some of its lift. The nett result is for the plane to roll due to the lift differences in the wings at the same time as the tail swings in the direction of the turn and rolls so that the rudder is now horizontal.

As a result of the roll and that the rudder tends to throw the nose in a downwards direction when the wings are at full bank, (like an elevator), the plane noses down sharply and a nose down spin can begin. If you know what you are doing it can enhance a turn in combat especially when used WITH ailerons but without ailerons the wing speeds MUST equalize for the roll/spin to end and the recovery to commence.

The nose down aspect of the rudder induced yaw and roll combination, (Dutch roll), means that if done with motor power applied the height lost can be massive. The need to allow the plane to regain straight line speed can eat up even more height and if you are not flying high enough the plane gets to eat the dirt as well!

It is fun to use the feature but NOT as the sole turning mechanism!

Just as I understand it!

Have fun!

Yep I've done that lots lol! Makes sense though. RET leaves to much dependence on the design of the plane and the experience of the pilot, of which many of my planes and my pride have been a victim of...

Thx again my friend

 

[bracesport]

I don't know why but I have always used the AET system (except for my very first love - the fish) - I thought ailerons were cooler!

I have 4ch on the SPIT, but to be honest, I get around ok with the bank and yank - I tried the 4ch on the simulator with a sloop soarer so it will be the future for sure!

 

[Hoomi]

I flew nothing today. Ugh stupid school View attachment 141665

Trust me.... there will come a time when you will wonder why you were in such a hurry to get done with school. 40+ hours a week at a job isn't any better for scheduling the stuff we enjoy.

It's better for having money to spend on the stuff we enjoy, but not for the time to enjoy it.

 

[Vimana89]

Yep I've done that lots lol! Makes sense though. RET leaves to much dependence on the design of the plane and the experience of the pilot, of which many of my planes and my pride have been a victim of...

Thx again my friend

It's funny to hear so many people who started with more ailerons and struggle with RET. It totally makes sense though, but I actually got a good feel for RET early on and can build and fly almost anything RET with a high chance of success, especially low aspect planes. I guess building the V Sliver and getting it to fly well so early in my RC career is a bit more of an accomplishment than I thought. She's a bit of a handful on high throttle so I give some altitude if I'm screaming around at warp 9, but for slow flight and high alpha and gentle cruising, this plane is just so docile I can fly it a few feet off the ground if even that and do full turns on high alpha. It feels so much more stable and maneuverable in slow high alpha than a Nutball. Somehow this plane just takes everything that's annoying about RET and makes it fun. All that said though, I'm still pretty stoked to try one with elevons soon👍.

 

[whackflyer]

I would reccomend the 48" edge! It flies on rails! It just sinks when you come in to land like all of them

Sweet thanks!