4XTrouble

[Wildthing]

Ah, the dark side. It offers so much, where if designed right, it works. My goal is to have airplanes that are different, not only in design, but improvements. Hovering and higher alpha's are part of my game. Thrusters, nose strakes, close coupled canards(not lifting), stabilizers all work for me. A lot of this can be passed on were other's in the future can say, I remember reading about that, so it can be done.

"Wildthing" fell into the dark side as soon as he dreamed it up. Will see if it is possible. He picked up the first point, 4 engines have to run the same tofly. See how he solve it.

Here is a quicky for you.
Why don't you try my leading edge flaps on your F-22? There are three versions, one-just glue them on..Second, put some servos on and program it so up to 1/2 throttle it is extended at different varables and level for fast flights and below 1/2 throttle on landing it will slow you down for landing.
Third version, I am automating the LEF with flaps now. Still experimental.

What did I learn from this.
1) You can get tighter turns
2) Improved higher angle of attacks on takeoff as well as landing.
3) Rocks like heck, increases stall angle, yet is comfortable to fly.
4) Flies well in very windy weather.
5) Don't want it to rock, reduce angle.
6) Reduce crashes.
7) You can STOL it and pick your landing point.

As you can see, I am pushing the craft close to the stalling point, so just nose over some to stop the wobble.
The result of the dark side.

Well even a simple twin motor setups I will do a vertical thrust test just to make sure it lifts evenly, now this with 4 motors it better be perfect.

 

[Wildthing]

Thinking on the Darkside on controls and mixes.

Turning thrust differential so that should be easy and I think the rate of differential can be very low.

Roll control which could be fun but I think as an example if left side is dropping right aileron stick both right tubes angle up and left tubes stay level and visa versa goes for right side dropping.

Pitch control and flying level this is where all darkside minds can put in their two cents

Balance can't be centered, unlike a quad I can't control all 4 motors separately and they are not vertical anyways so my thought is to think more like a plane and have the cg point more forward so the nose always wants to drop first. All 4 tubes should have a + angle of attack , how many degrees yet to be determined, not a ton of lift surface .

Pitch control, I think just the front two tubes should control it, originally I thought all 4 but this thing may drop like a brick then , same reasoning for roll control .

Any and all thoughts are welcome

 

[Piotrsko]

Turning & pitch can be done like ruddervators using either front or rear pair motors. Everything else is vectored thrust, but without L/R motor speed control, I cant figure out how to do roll in hover fast enough to be useful. Horizontal control is piece of cake

Pods rotate fore AND aft? Like about 270 degrees

 

[LitterBug]

I like your sleeves, they're real big....

Looking forward to seeing some motion pictures of this contraption!

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[Wildthing]

Turning & pitch can be done like ruddervators using either front or rear pair motors. Everything else is vectored thrust, but without L/R motor speed control, I cant figure out how to do roll in hover fast enough to be useful. Horizontal control is piece of cake

Pods rotate fore AND aft?

My initial mix I have all 4 motors as dif thrust but that's easy enough to change. Liking my new Jumper T16 tx, makes any mix super simple.

I just had a thought this morning also to add a cross piece of foam inside the tube at both ends to help direct air flow plus give a little extra lift .

 

[Wildthing]

Turning & pitch can be done like ruddervators using either front or rear pair motors. Everything else is vectored thrust, but without L/R motor speed control, I cant figure out how to do roll in hover fast enough to be useful. Horizontal control is piece of cake

Pods rotate fore AND aft? Like about 270 degrees

The tubes or if you are referring to them as pods I am thinking maybe 20 degrees up or down is all. Pitch also is vector thrust.

 

[L Edge]

Well even a simple twin motor setups I will do a vertical thrust test just to make sure it lifts evenly, now this with 4 motors it better be perfect.

It took a flight controller and a lot of P.I.D. adjustments to get it to hover. It still had trim problems that I had to adjust. One motor was adjusted from 100% to 96% range to get it to hover. Shows 2 motors are never built the same.

 

[L Edge]

My FT-22's were all built for speed and not really high alpha, i gess it just depends on the CG point and prop selection you choose. I used an 8x8 on mine. Fast AF.

You still can do it and have some fun. All it takes is a mix in your radio and you have both ways. If you move your throttle better than 1/2, it will never come down. You can have your speed as well as some slow flying ability.

 

[Wildthing]

It took a flight controller and a lot of P.I.D. adjustments to get it to hover. It still had trim problems that I had to adjust. One motor was adjusted from 100% to 96% range to get it to hover. Shows 2 motors are never built the same.

And props come into it also

 

[Wildthing]

Love Amazon Prime, look what showed up 9.30am and they were just ordered yesterday

Bullet connectors soldered on and tested, going with some Dalprop T5040C props which are 3 blade 5X4 ones. On 4S they produce 23oz thrust and only 21A draw at wot so I am on the border for the esc's but hopefully I don't need to run wot the whole time

 

[L Edge]

Thinking on the Darkside on controls and mixes.

Turning thrust differential so that should be easy and I think the rate of differential can be very low.

Roll control which could be fun but I think as an example if left side is dropping right aileron stick both right tubes angle up and left tubes stay level and visa versa goes for right side dropping.

Pitch control and flying level this is where all darkside minds can put in their two cents

Balance can't be centered, unlike a quad I can't control all 4 motors separately and they are not vertical anyways so my thought is to think more like a plane and have the cg point more forward so the nose always wants to drop first. All 4 tubes should have a + angle of attack , how many degrees yet to be determined, not a ton of lift surface .

Pitch control, I think just the front two tubes should control it, originally I thought all 4 but this thing may drop like a brick then , same reasoning for roll control .

Any and all thoughts are welcome

Need to look at the radio since that is one factor. That's one limit. Secondly, in order to turn(like a trainer, just use rudder and elevator).

Another question, I used only a single tube and a double tube(side by side) setup to fly. Both flew in an "nose up" position attitude. What will yours do and what effects will the exhaust air flow of the first do to the second?

 

[L Edge]

One way I checked syncing of motors(pairs) to see speed differences is to set 2 motors face to face(use a jig) using a florescent light in background. Run up motors with props so you will see it sync and the prop vision will stand still. If one is slow or fast, the prop viewed will either go cw/ccw showing its direction. Gives you an idea of one speed to the other.

How it works is the florescent cycles 60 times a sec(off/on), the excess shows up on the one prop vrs the other. Used that method to track my autogyro and get it in line.

 

[Wildthing]

Need to look at the radio since that is one factor. That's one limit. Secondly, in order to turn(like a trainer, just use rudder and elevator).

Another question, I used only a single tube and a double tube(side by side) setup to fly. Both flew in an "nose up" position attitude. What will yours do and what effects will the exhaust air flow of the first do to the second?

One way I checked syncing of motors(pairs) to see speed differences is to set 2 motors face to face(use a jig) using a florescent light in background. Run up motors with props so you will see it sync and the prop vision will stand still. If one is slow or fast, the prop viewed will either go cw/ccw showing its direction. Gives you an idea of one speed to the other.

How it works is the florescent cycles 60 times a sec(off/on), the excess shows up on the one prop vrs the other. Used that method to track my autogyro and get it in line.

Well the radio I am going to be using is the Jumper T16, virtually any mix you want to do is possible, all I have to do is figure out how to write it . . I was thinking about the exhaust off of the front ones . I have a friend that has a virtual wind tunnel that he can put the model into and see roughly what is going to happen.
Testing the sync I don't have any florescent lights in my house to test with other then some that are built into the kitchen cabinets so that's out.

 

[Wildthing]

This is my idea to help control the airflow plus give it an extra little lift.

 

[Wildthing]

Motors are mounted props are extra tight too.

 

[Wildthing]

Cross pieces are now in, once cured then start rolling on the shell.

 

[Piotrsko]

I can see the front motors beating the snot out of the rear pair particularly if they aren't aligned. Hope the pivot is beefy. this last picture is a flight mode also?

 

[Wildthing]

I can see the front motors beating the snot out of the rear pair particularly if they aren't aligned. Hope the pivot is beefy

And hopefully the servos hold out

 

[BATTLEAXE]

And hopefully the servos hold out

Is there a way to offset them, like the front ones sit wider then the back, since your using the front ones for pitch it might be advantageous and more stable in flight

 

[Wildthing]

Is there a way to offset them, like the front ones sit wider then the back, since your using the front ones for pitch it might be advantageous and more stable in flight

Well back ones can be brought in a couple inches max. But , the narrower I go the less stable it will be and the wider I go the more stress on the arms, I am dammed if I do and dammed if I don't