Dragonfly Motors Right threaded (CCW) and Left threaded (CW) position

[Machdog314]

I purchased the powerpack kit with the dragonfly. It came with 3 Red cap (CCW/Right threaded) motors and 2 Black cap (CW/Left threaded) motors. I have found conflicting information on the position of these motors. The included diagram was posted on another thread. It shows 3 props going CW and 2 going CCW, given the motors including in the kit I would think this would be reversed.

Can someone confirm the proper position of the motors?

 

[Mostly Harmless]

The 2 right side motors are _both_ turning ccw. Remember that the side motors are mounted upside-down.... meaning that this ccw motor will appear to ne turning cw viewed from above. Similarly, both left motors have cw rotation.

It took me a while to wrap my head around that. Just remember to install your props with markings facing upwards.

 

[Machdog314]

Thanks Mostly Harmless!

The math still does not add up from the picture we have 3 CW rotation (Left side and back) and 2 CCW rotation (Right side), however the kit came with 2 CW rotation motors and 3 CCW rotation motors.

 

[Mostly Harmless]

I put 2 ccw (red) motors on the right and the 3rd ccw motor on the tilt rotor. The cw (black) motors are on the left. Theoretically, you could have all motors rotating the same way, the FC board would apply appropriate tilt to account for the uneven torque from 5 motors. With an even number of motors (on a quad copter, for example), you have to be careful to balance the torque -- each motor must have a matching counter-rotation to counter out its torque. Since this has an odd number of motors, the tilting rotor takes care of that. Of course, to minimize the torque imbalance, you'll want to get as much of the torque cancelled out as possible.

It doesn't matter which way the rear rotor is turning -- the FC board will adjust for the torque imbalance by tilting the rear rotor. So, go ahead and mount the 3rd ccw (red) motor on the rear. It flies just fine... if I could only fly it well, that is (but, I'm getting better!)

 

[Machdog314]

I put 2 ccw (red) motors on the right and the 3rd ccw motor on the tilt rotor. The cw (black) motors are on the left. Theoretically, you could have all motors rotating the same way, the FC board would apply appropriate tilt to account for the uneven torque from 5 motors. With an even number of motors (on a quad copter, for example), you have to be careful to balance the torque -- each motor must have a matching counter-rotation to counter out its torque. Since this has an odd number of motors, the tilting rotor takes care of that. Of course, to minimize the torque imbalance, you'll want to get as much of the torque cancelled out as possible.

It doesn't matter which way the rear rotor is turning -- the FC board will adjust for the torque imbalance by tilting the rear rotor. So, go ahead and mount the 3rd ccw (red) motor on the rear. It flies just fine... if I could only fly it well, that is (but, I'm getting better!)

Thanks for the explanation, I have learned so much with this first build. I will do the same setup, hopefully I can get it in the air by the end of this weekend!

 

[Mostly Harmless]

It's been a tremendous learning experience for me -- I'm a real novice, but have a lot of early lessons in recent memory.

One gotcha' that holds up a lot first time builders is the a setting on the yaw servo (Servos tab in the CleanFlight configurator app).

I suffered from a spinning 'copter. No matter what I did, the machine would whirl madly, with no hope of ever controlling it.

Examining the behavior of the rear servo while holding it and yawing the 'copter (with blades removed, of course), I noticed some odd behavior. Instead of countering the yaw I was imparting on the airframe, the servo was tilting to actually reinforce it -- the more it turned on the vertical axis, the more the servo tilted to continue that movement. No wonder the machines spin out of control.

The fix? Pretty easy, actually. I don't know if Josh and Eric missed this step, or if this is a result of a later version of the Naze firmware. The solution lies in the Servos tab on the CleanFlight configurator.

At the lower left, observe the Gyroscope/Accelerometer Direction box. There should be only one item for tri-copters. Set this to "Reverse" and then save.

I encountered a bug in very latest Naze firmware (1.9.0, dated 2 June) that does not allow you to select and save this setting. Thus, you will have to use the previous version (1.8.1 dated 17 May). Once you have this setting, you should be up and running, although the default PID settings result in twitchy behavior. - See more at: http://forum.flitetest.com/showthre...ervo-thing-problem/page2#sthash.D56RFsX7.dpuf

 

[Machdog314]

Thanks for the heads up, especially with the the latest Naze firmware bug. I would have been scratching my head on that one.

 

[fuchsfly]

So, has anyone found decent settings on PIDs for the dragonfly?

Im still getting some wobbles after working on both 1,2 and 3. So far 3 is the best, started at with I and D at 0 while working on slowly creeping up on P.

I read through davids tutorial for his NAZE 32 copter frame, but it says it only works on simon K ESC's. Does anyone think they would work on the BL-Heli Escs included in the kit?

 

[Machdog314]

So, has anyone found decent settings on PIDs for the dragonfly?

Im still getting some wobbles after working on both 1,2 and 3. So far 3 is the best, started at with I and D at 0 while working on slowly creeping up on P.

I read through davids tutorial for his NAZE 32 copter frame, but it says it only works on simon K ESC's. Does anyone think they would work on the BL-Heli Escs included in the kit?

Hi fuchsfly, I plan on using David's method since others stated it worked for them. They did not say if they have stock flitetest packages or if they used Simon K ESC's but I did a little snooping on their past posts and they had pictures of their dragonfly and it seemed to be BL-Heli. So maybe give it a shot.

I had another issue which will delay my test for a week. The elevator and throttle seemed connected to each other. After troubleshooting it Receiver pins 2 and 3 were shorted out internally on the Naze 32. I looked with a magnify glass and did not see any stray solder. I then removed all my soldered pins and it still was shorted. A ordered a new Naze 32 which is on it's way. I will keep you posted.

 

[pressalltheknobs]

So looking from the front of the motor...

A motor that turns CCW will have a CW (aka plus, regular, right handed) thread. This is the standard (CCW) prop rotation. The motor turns the prop CCW but the force on the prop pushes it back and tightens the nut CW (to the right).

A motor that turns CW will have a CCW (aka left handed) thread. This is the reverse (aka R or "pusher" CW) prop rotation. The motor turns the prop CW but the force on the prop pushes it back and tightens the nut to the CCW (to the left)

So you if have a "pusher motor" where you want to mount the prop "upside down" then the motor still need to rotate opposite to the direction of its thread and if the motor turns CCW with a CW thread then you will now need a reverse (aka R or "pusher") prop so the nut still tightens.

If you just reverse a prop on a shaft you have to turn in the opposite direction for it to work so you can't really do that with a threaded shaft.

So for the dragonfly looking from the top using that diagram, we have

Left Front is a CW turning motor with a CCW thread and an "R" prop
Right Front is a CCW turning motor with a CW thread and a standard prop
Left Middle is a downward facing CW turning motor with a CCW thread and a standard prop mounted upside down
Right Middle is a downward facing CCW turning motor with a CW thread and an "R" prop mount upside down.
Rear is a CW turning motor with a CCW thread and an "R" prop

So three CCW threaded motors and two CW threaded motors seem correct for that diagram.

Think I've got that right. It's making my head hurt.

If you don't do it that way then your nuts will fly off and we definitely don't want that.

 

[Machdog314]

So, has anyone found decent settings on PIDs for the dragonfly?

Im still getting some wobbles after working on both 1,2 and 3. So far 3 is the best, started at with I and D at 0 while working on slowly creeping up on P.

I read through davids tutorial for his NAZE 32 copter frame, but it says it only works on simon K ESC's. Does anyone think they would work on the BL-Heli Escs included in the kit?

Hi Fuchsfly - I tried David's exact setup with the Flitetest stock Dragonfly (BL-Heli, etc) and it worked great. Make sure you download the The only thing you probably will need to do is reverse the servo. Also make sure you download the "standalone Naze32 board" file from his page instead of the built-in.