Great Planes Giant P6E Hawk--Electric Conversion

willsonman

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A club member has been in the process of thinning the hangar. He and I have talked about the P6E for a few years now. He finally just wanted it gone and gave me a price I just could not refuse. Its a fantastic-flying airplane and I'm a softy for the golden era aircraft. For those that are interested: STATS
This airplane is now discontinued. There is the smaller version that FT did a review of. Knowing that there is a lot of reviews out there of this particular model I knew that I would come in at around 13 pounds AUW. So, lets get started with the conversion from a slimer to electron.

This is what I started with. The plane is in pristine condition. No major repairs at all to be done.
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Here is the heart. An O.S. FS 120 Surpass. 4-stroke glow fuel makes the most heavenly of sounds but brings lots of cleaning, expensive fuel ($21/gallon), more things to bring to the field, and a much more dangerous (IMO) starting procedure. What will be missed is of course the sound but also the smell. There is something about glow fuel that is just primal in this hobby.
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Here is the removed motor on the scale. At 36 oz. I have some work to get the weight up front to get the CG right.
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So, I've been VERY successfully flying mt AT-6 Texan on electric for a couple of years now. I've tried selling it as-is because I feel like it has served it purpose in training me for larger-scale warbirds. It flies exceptionally well and the power system is smooth and reliable. Cranking out 1300W this is a drop-in for this plane to provide around 100W/pound. A good round number for this airplane to do some seriously scale flying. Again, this is an NTM 42-48 650Kv. 16 oz. is a good starting place for the nose.
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I measured the length of the motor from the mounting plate to the prop hub base on both systems. The electric system needed only 3/8" more to make the cowl. I quickly cut a piece of ply and used the mounting holes for the glow motor to attach it. To quickly check the placement, I drilled holes into the ply spacer and used wood screws to attach the motor... the result? Have a look.
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So, now I'll put some blind (or T) nuts on the back of the ply spacer and properly mount the motor. The other issue remaining is the leftover 18 oz. of weight I need in the nose. My 4500 4S batteries weigh in at about 15 oz. The real upshot here is that there is AMPLE room in the cowl for a battery so I can get the weight as far forward as possible. The other fun bit is that there is a square hole in the cowl already that was used for the glow engine. I can use that hole to place a battery in the cowl and make a styrene cover for it. With an ample motor box it will be a snap to screw a battery plate to it and use heavy velcro to attach the battery.With the wood and other things I am pretty sure I can make the CG without adding a ton of ballast. Stay tuned for updates.
 

rockyboy

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She's a beauty! Would love some close up shots of the inside cowling work as you get the battery tray and hookups installed.

I have passed on the opportunity to pick up a gasser last fall, mostly because I wasn't confident in my knowledge yet to attempt the conversion. I had sadly watched another gas to electric conversion turn into a pile of sticks a few weeks prior. The wisdom of the field trended towards underpowered, and I'm still not solidly grasping the motor sizing formula(s).
 

willsonman

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I sure will get those photos. The motor sizing can be derived from multiple angles. My approach is to appropriately power (watts) with minimal RPM (larger prop). I do this by taking motors with high power ratings and prop them with larger props that you would think for the motor and lower the cell count. Most people do the plug-and-chug method. That is: take an equivalent size motor from a manufacturer and use their settings. So, in this case a 1.20 size motor and run it on 8S. While this works it gets to be more expensive from the motor and batteries as well as the ESC. after 6S you need and OPTO ESC which are MUCH more expensive. Then you may need a larger charger as well for the larger batteries. Sticking to 100-150 watts/pound is a good rule of thumb. On the fighter-style WWII era planes 150 is better. For the biplanes you can lessen that because of the increase in wing area. You can also lower your prop ratio to trade off speed for thrust.
 

rockyboy

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I like your "fewer battery cells" approach - and really appreciate the explanation! Now some of the different motor/prop combinations I see on the same plane make more sense.

Thanks!
 

willsonman

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Yeah, I really like the NTM and SK3 lines because you can get higher KV motors that can handle quite a bit of power. Start looking at power and then, using online power calculators, you can figure out how to prop it.
 

Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
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That's a great looking bird! I agree with you on the cost/mess associated with glow and originally wondered why anybody would do ANYTHING other than electric these days. Then I started playing around rebuilding my 1/4 scale Cubs and decided (for better or worse) to try gas engines. The more I work with those gassers, the more I like 'em. It's certainly been a steep learning curve for me and the costs have been high, but it will be nice getting almost unlimited flight time for $1.95 per gallon of gas! Pricing up the big batteries needed for relatively short flights on electric turned me off on my original idea of converting them to electric.

Keep the pics and details coming!
 

willsonman

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Yeah, Battery prices can really get up there. However, my 4S batts for this are in the $45 range so it is not nearly as bad. Its part of the reason I go for the low cell count setups. Its more scale... and cheaper!
 

willsonman

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Thanks Pat! She really is pretty.

So, I dug in a little yesterday. I got the cowl off and did a heavy cleaning with lysol and dish soap to remove the years of oil and grease on it. Smells better too.

I got the motor permanently mounted.
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Servo tray looks a bit naked but that means less weight aft of the CG!
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I had to disassemble the on-off switch and re-solder it to function with my ESC. Its a nice feature. Also note the power meter from the glow. I left it to make things look a bit more authentic ;)
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And the business end. The motor size in comparison is pretty humorous but the run-up I did on a battery at storage charge is nothing to laugh about.
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Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
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Without the big lump of engine up front are you able to get batteries in there to get you to the proper CoG? It looks like there is a TON of room for batteries!
 

willsonman

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Battery tray is done. I'll walk through the process.

With the cowl on I inserted a ruler through the preexisting hole from the glow motor and measured up to the point at which I thought would be good to be in the cowl. 7.5 inches. The motor box is 5 inches wide. Cut ply 7.5x5. Drill holes and use wood screws to attach the plate to the motor box. I wanted the power leads for the ESC to stay more in place so I drilled out a hole for them to protrude through the plate.
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This is a side shot. Plenty of cooling for the ESC and compact wiring.
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Use the dremel to cut slots for the velcro strap and apply placement velcro as well.
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Moment of truth... fits with no issue. no rubbing and the muffler hole serves as a good connector port. That hole is just too small for the battery... more dremel time.
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The hole was widened just a bit with the dremel cutoff wheel.
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4S 4500mAh fits with room to spare! What you can't see is that there are a couple of inches between the battery and the firewall so there is ample room for a larger battery.
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Questions?
 

willsonman

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I'm going to try. Its BIG! The Sikorsky has a span of the same size but there are two outer panels that come off.
 

willsonman

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Well, The Sikorsky's span is large, for the weight. This one is a porker with the weight over 10 pounds.

Just did a full assembly and CG check. CG is nearly DEAD ON! I moved the 3oz of lead that was in the ballast box on top of the motor mount to the underside of the very fore end of the battery tray. That should help. I need to set my programming, set my throws, take her to the field for range and taxi testing.

NO MAIDEN this weekend. I'm going to PA for the flea market tomorrow and Sunday looks to be a bust.
 

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