Simple Soarer / battery / ESC / BEC advice requested

[HunnyBunnysMonster]

Hello All

I am trying to return to model gliding, after some years.

I am in the process of building a Simple Soarer. It's been an interesting experience, I have never built anything from foam board / used a glue gun, before.

I think that initially I will concentrate on getting the glider version to work (I come from a gliding background, e.g. Gentle Ladies, Aileron Middle Phases etc).

I would be grateful if anyone could advise on some matters:

When I last built model planes, the radio choices were either 27 MHZ or 35 MHZ ( I am in the UK). I used to use Sanwa 35 MHz.

I have purchased a 2.4 ghz (or whatever it's called) second-hand transmitter, which has a receiver ( and seems to work) - 4 channel.

So as to the Simple Soarer, I have watched the build video (several times). There are some points that are not explained, e.g. the sudden announcement about chopping the ends off the servo arms.

But my immediate concern is , just to get the electronics working.

I'm a bit confused about the battery-to-receiver connection - it seems that I might need a BEC / UBEC / ESC - apparently the voltage is too high for the receiver / servos, if one tries to connect a lipo battery direct - but it seems that this might depend on the rating of the battery and the number of "S"s (which I think means the number of cells (?)). I have bought some cheapy 9g servos. Years ago, in the Gentle Ladies etc, we just had a battery , a receiver ,and the two servos - no other complications. I think that the battery then was a nicad (?), and made up of 4 "tubes" (presumably nowadays, "cells"), presumably 1.5 v each (?). Actually I still have such a battery, from someone else's Gentle Lady, last used to power the brake light on my wife's BSA Bantam motorbike ( it seemed to work ok then). I rather think that the plug sizes are different nowadays though (smaller).

I see that the information about the simple soarer says to use a 500 - 800 mah battery (presumably Lipo), though this may be with the use of a motor in mind - i.e. the power pod. In the fulness of time, i anticipate that i will try the power pod, so maybe it's best for me to orientate towards that using a battery that would facilitate that situation. And I guess that another factor is, the COG shown is presumably influenced by the recommended battery size (i.e. weight) ? , so that may be another reason to follow that guidance. On the other hand , the recommended power pack is B, but somewhere else in the FT site i got the impression that maybe that should have been Power pack "A", so not sure about that. In my rummagings on the internet, i have come across some advice that said that , if you use only a "1S" battery, then you could get away with plugging this straight into the receiver.

If anyone would care to advise on these matters, I would be grateful for any (informed) advice.

In case it helps, I'm not interested in the plane screaming around the sky, all I want the plane to do is to float well, and, when I fit a motor, to be able to chug up to an altitude from where it can float / soar / sink / do whatever it wants to do at that time. My greatest pleasures from the old days were slope soaring, and bungee launches from a flat field ( I think known to our American cousins as "high start" )

Best wishes to all

Thanks

 

[Paracodespoder]

First off, welcome home!
As for the ubec they are pretty Cheap . You would get a 2s Lipo and you would also need to solder on some battery connectors to the bec, the ubec then plugs into any port in the receiver. you will also need a Charger.
Come back for any other help on connections, parts, etc.

 

[Tench745]

You can use any battery that will supply sufficient voltage for your receiver and servos. If that old nicad is still good, you could use that. Look up your receiver's specs and make sure your battery voltage is within the allowable range. If it's too high you'll need something like a BEC or step-down circuit to keep from burning out your receiver. Battery voltage too low and you'll need a step-up circuit to prevent brownouts.
I have a modified Simple Soarer, no motor, which I fly on a 1350mah 2-cell (yes, S means "cell") because that's what I have and it balances the plane out. I could easily fly all day with that battery and barely make a dent in the charge. JST connectors and XT-30 or XT-60 plugs are becoming pretty standard for battery connectors now, but whatever you have can work. For CG, just shift your battery until things balance at the marked points. If your battery is too small you may need other balast to balance things out. If your battery is too big, you'll just have a heavier glider.
I don't know the appropriate powerpack size for this one since I only fly mine as a glider. I suspect the "B" pack is the correct one though, bigger motor with a lower kv rating (rpm/volt) to turn bigger props. 1s battery would be fine for gliding, provided your reciever can run on voltage that low. A 1s battery would not be enough for the motor.

 

[Hondo76251]

Ive used a 1s battery to power a cheap little 2.4 receiver in a glider with pretty good success, but its always best to have a 5v BEC to help eliminate the chances of a brownout.

I was flying the tiny trainer on 1s battery when slope soaring with it:

 

[Merv]

By far most Rx will operate on 5v but you should check your equipment. Some setups will work at higher voltage and some will work at lower voltages. The voltage your equipment will operate on will determine your battery needs to be. Any battery that supply’s the necessary voltage will work.

Lipo's are 4.2v per cell when charged & around 3.3v per cell when empty. If your equipment is happy within that voltage range or a multiple there of, then you can use a Lipo. Otherwise you will need a UBEC of some type to convert Lipo voltage to the voltage your equipment needs.

Regarding 2.4ghz equipment vs the stuff you are familiar with. The new stuff is far more reliable and has a greater range. The down side it’s more brand specific, different brands don’t work nearly as well with each other. The older stuff was either a regular signal or an inverted signal. The newer stuff has a protocol, there are many protocols, they mostly don’t work with each other.

 

[leaded50]

first of all , check this plug to reciver from the ESC... is it two, or three wires there? If two, you need an UBEC (extra reciver power) if three, it delivers the correct power to reciver, and NO extra power to reciver is necessary.

 

[Bricks]

[



The voltage and set up are the same as what you used years ago a four cell or five cell NIMA will work for receiver and servo power. If you are going to run a motor then using a Lipo battery is best and an ESC ( is what controls throttle ) . The ESC will have the correct step down voltage to run your servos and receiver. It does not have to be that complicated, the basic principles that you used years ago have not changed. Terminology brushless motors using Lipo`s and frequency of the radios are the biggest changes.

Welcome back to the hobby I know what you are going thru it is not as complicated as it seems to be and people make it out to be. Always check of what you read on the internet as it is not always correct.

 

[HunnyBunnysMonster]

First off, welcome home!
As for the ubec they are pretty Cheap . You would get a 2s Lipo and you would also need to solder on some battery connectors to the bec, the ubec then plugs into any port in the receiver. you will also need a Charger.
Come back for any other help on connections, parts, etc.

Hello Paracodespoder, thanks very much for your helpful information, and congratulations on being the first to reply

 

[HunnyBunnysMonster]

You can use any battery that will supply sufficient voltage for your receiver and servos. If that old nicad is still good, you could use that. Look up your receiver's specs and make sure your battery voltage is within the allowable range. If it's too high you'll need something like a BEC or step-down circuit to keep from burning out your receiver. Battery voltage too low and you'll need a step-up circuit to prevent brownouts.
I have a modified Simple Soarer, no motor, which I fly on a 1350mah 2-cell (yes, S means "cell") because that's what I have and it balances the plane out. I could easily fly all day with that battery and barely make a dent in the charge. JST connectors and XT-30 or XT-60 plugs are becoming pretty standard for battery connectors now, but whatever you have can work. For CG, just shift your battery until things balance at the marked points. If your battery is too small you may need other balast to balance things out. If your battery is too big, you'll just have a heavier glider.
I don't know the appropriate powerpack size for this one since I only fly mine as a glider. I suspect the "B" pack is the correct one though, bigger motor with a lower kv rating (rpm/volt) to turn bigger props. 1s battery would be fine for gliding, provided your reciever can run on voltage that low. A 1s battery would not be enough for the motor.

Hello Tench745, thanks very much for your helpful information.

 

[HunnyBunnysMonster]

Ive used a 1s battery to power a cheap little 2.4 receiver in a glider with pretty good success, but its always best to have a 5v BEC to help eliminate the chances of a brownout.

I was flying the tiny trainer on 1s battery when slope soaring with it:

Hello Hondo76251, thanks very much for your helpful information.

 

[HunnyBunnysMonster]

By far most Rx will operate on 5v but you should check your equipment. Some setups will work at higher voltage and some will work at lower voltages. The voltage your equipment will operate on will determine your battery needs to be. Any battery that supply’s the necessary voltage will work.

Lipo's are 4.2v per cell when charged & around 3.3v per cell when empty. If your equipment is happy within that voltage range or a multiple there of, then you can use a Lipo. Otherwise you will need a UBEC of some type to convert Lipo voltage to the voltage your equipment needs.

Regarding 2.4ghz equipment vs the stuff you are familiar with. The new stuff is far more reliable and has a greater range. The down side it’s more brand specific, different brands don’t work nearly as well with each other. The older stuff was either a regular signal or an inverted signal. The newer stuff has a protocol, there are many protocols, they mostly don’t work with each other.

Hello Merv. Thanks very much for your helpful information.

 

[HunnyBunnysMonster]

first of all , check this plug to reciver from the ESC... is it two, or three wires there? If two, you need an UBEC (extra reciver power) if three, it delivers the correct power to reciver, and NO extra power to reciver is necessary.

View attachment 196559

Hello Leaded50, thanks very much for your advice.

 

[HunnyBunnysMonster]

[



The voltage and set up are the same as what you used years ago a four cell or five cell NIMA will work for receiver and servo power. If you are going to run a motor then using a Lipo battery is best and an ESC ( is what controls throttle ) . The ESC will have the correct step down voltage to run your servos and receiver. It does not have to be that complicated, the basic principles that you used years ago have not changed. Terminology brushless motors using Lipo`s and frequency of the radios are the biggest changes.

Welcome back to the hobby I know what you are going thru it is not as complicated as it seems to be and people make it out to be. Always check of what you read on the internet as it is not always correct.

Hello Bricks, thanks very much for your advice.

 

[HunnyBunnysMonster]

First off, welcome home!
As for the ubec they are pretty Cheap . You would get a 2s Lipo and you would also need to solder on some battery connectors to the bec, the ubec then plugs into any port in the receiver. you will also need a Charger.
Come back for any other help on connections, parts, etc.

Hello Paracodespoder

Is there much danger of damaging the bec via the heat of soldering ? I have a soldering iron, and some solder i think. Are there any special considerations to be aware of when soldering the battery wires to say an XT-60 connector ?

Thanks

 

[sprzout]

I'll ask something that may help steer you in the right direction:

1) Are you going to make this a motorized glider? If so, you'll definitely want the ESC with a BEC.

2) If it's just going to be used for slope soaring and thermaling with no motor whatsoever, then go with a BEC. Best way to ensure no brownouts and intermittent/no servo response, which can definitely ruin your day. While I know that there are batteries that you can connect direct to a receiver for powering things, I'd recommend going the safe route and using a BEC to regulate it instead.

I bought these, and got 2 for less than $10, shipped. Dirt cheap, and handled my two servos for the Simple Soarer just fine, with a connection to a 2S 1000mah battery.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GHMW0C0/?tag=lstir-20

 

[danskis]

I fly both high start and discuss launch gliders without a BEC - both 1s and 2s. You just connect the battery to the receiver with a servo connector - just like you would a servo. Red goes in the middle and black goes on the bottom pin (and data is the top pin). Its usually marked on the receiver case. On my 2s rudder/elevator (2 servos) glider I can go all day without worrying about the 550mah battery. You could probably fit an 850mah lipo in the simple soarer but I've never built one.

I believe most receivers can handle 2s but not necessarily 3s - check your receiver specs.

I guy in the club uses a voltage regulator for a constant 5v output but I've never used one.

 

[Bricks]

I fly both high start and discuss launch gliders without a BEC - both 1s and 2s. You just connect the battery to the receiver with a servo connector - just like you would a servo. Red goes in the middle and black goes on the bottom pin (and data is the top pin). Its usually marked on the receiver case. On my 2s rudder/elevator (2 servos) glider I can go all day without worrying about the 550mah battery. You could probably fit an 850mah lipo in the simple soarer but I've never built one.

I believe most receivers can handle 2s but not necessarily 3s - check your receiver specs.

I guy in the club uses a voltage regulator for a constant 5v output but I've never used one.

Agree we have been flying Nitro planes since the beginning of time without a BEC batteries connected directly to the receiver with out any problems.

 

[Merv]

.....Is there much danger of damaging the bec via the heat of soldering ? I have a soldering iron, and some solder i think. Are there any special considerations to be aware of when soldering the battery wires to say an XT-60 connector ?

If you are soldering to the wires, no, it’s hard to hurt. If you are soldering to a board, yes, you can easily damage the components on a board. Soldering small stuff takes a little heat, soldering larger stuff, like a battery connector, takes more heat.

With soldering, its all about the heat. I struggled to get a decent joint with a cheap Walmart iron. I finally got a temperature controlled iron, it was like magic, now it I can solder almost anything.

 

[HunnyBunnysMonster]

Hello all

Thanks very much for your various replies and the helpful information. It's been a pretty awful week at work so far, so your input is helping my morale

As to your various questions, as I am returning to model flight (gliding in particular), initially I will build the SS as a pure glider, then, if that goes ok, I will try adding a motor. I appreciate that I could bypass the pure glider stage, but, I haven't flown a model plane for 20+ years, so, I am going to try what I am (or was) familiar with, first. After all, this might all be a terrible mistake and I might find that I can't do it any more, or, I might find that I hate it / it doesn't "float my boat" etc. Also, if things go ok, I have aspirations to build other models, in particular, the Tiny Trainer, and the Simple Storch (and beyond that, possibly the Corsair). So, if that comes to pass, I will indeed be involving motors. At which point, if I have used the SS with a motor, I will change it back to pure glider. I can see that, in the fullness of time, I will probably end up building something like a SIG Riser 100".

Thanks again

Best wishes

 

[JasonK]

If you are soldering to the wires, no, it’s hard to hurt. If you are soldering to a board, yes, you can easily damage the components on a board. Soldering small stuff takes a little heat, soldering larger stuff, like a battery connector, takes more heat.

With soldering, its all about the heat. I struggled to get a decent joint with a cheap Walmart iron. I finally got a temperature controlled iron, it was like magic, now it I can solder almost anything.

for me it was good temp controlled iron + a flux pen... getting the solder onto stuff goes so much better with a bit of flux.