Thumbs down, flight controllers, and club memberships

[TheFlyingBrit]

that's my next project! i'm goingto reduce the wingspan to around 34"as well. should be a fun experiment.

have you considered the aura 5 lite stabilizing gyro? josh puts one in a cub in a video. i put one in an ft duster to learn to fly lower wing plane.
it's a great aid. you can start in beginner, where the plane flies itself and you steer, then switch to intermediate which allows some pitch and roll but no flipping. when comfortable, you can try expert which puts you in complete control, but still buffers the effects of wind to an extent.
the great thing is, you can flip a switch while flying if you get in trouble, and the gyro takes over.

We definitely need a thumbs down option on the forum, particularly for people using flight controllers and flight stabiliser's. I have 2 flight controllers my thumbs, my flight stabiliser's are my eyes and brain which tell my thumbs when to control the aircraft and get it back to level flight.
Aura 5 lite stabilising gyro, phooey. If you want safe, protected flying stick to a simulator.

 

[bisco]

We definitely need a thumbs down option on the forum, particularly for people using flight controllers and flight stabiliser's. I have 2 flight controllers my thumbs, my flight stabiliser's are my eyes and brain which tell my thumbs when to control the aircraft and get it back to level flight.
Aura 5 lite stabilising gyro, phooey. If you want safe, protected flying stick to a simulator.

to each his own. i suppose you taught yourself to fly and are just a natural pilot

 

[Mr NCT]

We definitely need a thumbs down option on the forum, particularly for people using flight controllers and flight stabiliser's. I have 2 flight controllers my thumbs, my flight stabiliser's are my eyes and brain which tell my thumbs when to control the aircraft and get it back to level flight.
Aura 5 lite stabilising gyro, phooey. If you want safe, protected flying stick to a simulator.

I've tried the Aura 5 and didn't have much success, but that's just me. I visited a flying club near me and when asked told them I was flying FT foam board planes. Their attitude was that wasn't really flying. I guess it wasn't a) balsa or b) store bought. I say fly what and how you want and have fun! Reminds me of tail dragger pilots who look down on tricycle gear planes and call them "land-o-matics". If you look at my picture I do in fact have 20 minutes for Ford Trimotor dual instruction time logged - now that's real arms and shoulder flying! Phooey on any pilot that doesn't have to sweat to make a coordinated turn.

 

[Flyingshark]

We definitely need a thumbs down option on the forum, particularly for people using flight controllers and flight stabiliser's. I have 2 flight controllers my thumbs, my flight stabiliser's are my eyes and brain which tell my thumbs when to control the aircraft and get it back to level flight.
Aura 5 lite stabilising gyro, phooey. If you want safe, protected flying stick to a simulator.

I’m going to try to take an intermediate position on this. I can understand wanting a computer to deal with the wind and stabilize a delicate plane, but I wouldn’t use it as a beginner, because then you’re learning to fly within the software’s “flight envelope” and not the plane’s. Again, I can see the benefit to an experienced pilot who wants to safeguard their model, but Flitetest planes are so relatively cheap and easy to build, I don’t think it’s worth it.

I think a downvote button is a bad idea. You shouldn’t penalize people for using flight stabilizers, you should try to talk to them and politely convince them of your view, not threaten to cancel them. “Downvoting” is just a way to add more negativity to the forums. This forum is the most positive and welcoming place I’ve found on the internet, I think because everybody shares the passion of flying planes. We should keep helping each other out, no matter if someone uses Spektrum or OpenTX, or an Aura or not.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

to each his own. i suppose you taught yourself to fly and are just a natural pilot

I learned in the days before Flight stabiliser's and flight controllers, I went to a club and learned with a qualified BMFA trainer using an IC powered balsa trainer.
I just passed my test allowing me to fly on my own and had to give up the hobby for personal reasons. After that I had a long spell away from it before starting from scratch again 3 years ago at a local club. Fortunately I got a good teacher who had me flying in windy conditions and even let me have a go of his SBach 3D plane. I moved clubs and eventually passed my safe solo test again so now I can fly what I want at the club within reason. However, I did use to practice in my local farmers field and Ive flown all sorts of foamboard planes some easy others are tricky. That's the fun of the hobby learning to fly a plane you have built, the characteristics of the plane and the weather add to the fun and experience.
Where learners tend to go wrong is the choice of first plane, the second fault they think planes fly straight and true first time you fly them. The third problem is over correction, everyone does it starting off.
So first get a big trainer something easily visible at distance, which has nice docile characteristics. Preferably balsa, the extra weight provides more stability in moderate wind conditions. Second, join a club and get someone experienced to trim your plane so it flies as it should.
Third, take lessons with a qualified trainer on a buddy box system. It will speed up the learning process and help with confidence having a professional to take over if you get into difficulty.
Finally don't set your throws to aggressive when your starting off, set dual rates and use the low rates to begin with and don't be afraid to use some expo it helps buffer the itchy trigger thumbs.
You don't need flight stabilisation etc unless you flying a big expensive twitchy plane costing $$$$$$$$$$, a fast jet or a drone.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I've tried the Aura 5 and didn't have much success, but that's just me. I visited a flying club near me and when asked told them I was flying FT foam board planes. Their attitude was that wasn't really flying. I guess it wasn't a) balsa or b) store bought. I say fly what and how you want and have fun! Reminds me of tail dragger pilots who look down on tricycle gear planes and call them "land-o-matics". If you look at my picture I do in fact have 20 minutes for Ford Trimotor dual instruction time logged - now that's real arms and shoulder flying! Phooey on any pilot that doesn't have to sweat to make a coordinated turn.

You can get some prejudice at clubs from some die hard balsa enthusiasts, I had that at my old club. Fortunately I have a more open minded group of guy's at my new club.
Saying that I have been slowly edging my way back to balsa planes lately. I still enjoy flying my foamboard planes, they helped me get back in the hobby and they are fun. However, there is something about getting a balsa plane in the air and landing it that makes you feel good inside.
I dare anyone to ignore a scale balsa model with an IC engine when it just about to take off, you cant resist watching them.

 

[bisco]

I learned in the days before Flight stabiliser's and flight controllers, I went to a club and learned with a qualified BMFA trainer using an IC powered balsa trainer.
I just passed my test allowing me to fly on my own and had to give up the hobby for personal reasons. After that I had a long spell away from it before starting from scratch again 3 years ago at a local club. Fortunately I got a good teacher who had me flying in windy conditions and even let me have a go of his SBach 3D plane. I moved clubs and eventually passed my safe solo test again so now I can fly what I want at the club within reason. However, I did use to practice in my local farmers field and Ive flown all sorts of foamboard planes some easy others are tricky. That's the fun of the hobby learning to fly a plane you have built, the characteristics of the plane and the weather add to the fun and experience.
Where learners tend to go wrong is the choice of first plane, the second fault they think planes fly straight and true first time you fly them. The third problem is over correction, everyone does it starting off.
So first get a big trainer something easily visible at distance, which has nice docile characteristics. Preferably balsa, the extra weight provides more stability in moderate wind conditions. Second, join a club and get someone experienced to trim your plane so it flies as it should.
Third, take lessons with a qualified trainer on a buddy box system. It will speed up the learning process and help with confidence having a professional to take over if you get into difficulty.
Finally don't set your throws to aggressive when your starting off, set dual rates and use the low rates to begin with and don't be afraid to use some expo it helps buffer the itchy trigger thumbs.
You don't need flight stabilisation etc unless you flying a big expensive twitchy plane costing $$$$$$$$$$, a fast jet or a drone.

i wish i were as fortunate as you. due to covid, there will be no clubs or teachers for the time being.

i started learning in my backyard last summer, and the safe system (and volantex) helped me to get the plane up, circle in both directions, and get my brain/eye/hand coordination not not have to think about which way i'm turning, coming or going.
i was then able to move up to an aeroscout, hobby king glider, and umx turbo timber without safe.

i'm sure it isn't as good as in person learning, and i've probably developed some bad habits, but it is what it is, and has turned out to be a nice hobby for me.

i still can't fly my ft duster in expert mode, and perhaps i never will, but i'm happy with the high wing planes.

 

[bisco]

if someone is trying to learn on a cub without some success, and can't get to a club, i think the safe systems are great tools.

it's up to each beginner to decide whether moving up to intermediate or expert is worth it for them.

i found it boring, just steering the plane around the sky after awhile.

 

[sprzout]

I've tried the Aura 5 and didn't have much success, but that's just me. I visited a flying club near me and when asked told them I was flying FT foam board planes. Their attitude was that wasn't really flying. I guess it wasn't a) balsa or b) store bought. I say fly what and how you want and have fun! Reminds me of tail dragger pilots who look down on tricycle gear planes and call them "land-o-matics". If you look at my picture I do in fact have 20 minutes for Ford Trimotor dual instruction time logged - now that's real arms and shoulder flying! Phooey on any pilot that doesn't have to sweat to make a coordinated turn.

Here's my thought with stabilizers:

They have their place.

I don't think you should use them to LEARN to fly; what happens when you get into a nicer plane that doesn't have a stabilizer? What if a friend offers you a chance at the sticks of their plane, and it doesn't have a stabilizer built in? Or, if you're trying to go for a competition flyer, and there's no stabilization? What then?

Also, I watched my father fly his Sensei into a tree because there was a stabilizer on it that would not allow him to roll it enough. A strong wind came up, he had full right stick to steer away from the tree, and it blew it right into the tree, about 100 ft up.

All of that said, I've seen the benefits of a stabilizer with a 6S EDF; you don't have to be as steady, and it makes flying one a lot easier when you're punching up at 100 mph on a low pass, or trying to come in for a landing. They certainly have their benefits, but I think they're a detriment to someone learning to fly.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I have 2 FT cub's a Tiny version and the full size version, neither are easy planes to fly (well mine aren't anyway), tip stalls and squirm around prior to take off. I've only landed the full size one 3 times without tipping it on its nose.
My trainer flew it and said "if you can fly that, you can fly anything". I eventually mastered it by learning rudder control which helped and keeping up my speed on my landing approach.
As I said in my previous post some planes are just awkward to fly. My Bushwacker and Spitfire for instance, which you would think are more difficult to fly are the opposite. The Bushwacker is excellent and skips into the air and is a pleasure to fly, the Spitfire cruises around like its on rails. Even my Edge 540 is easier to fly than the FT Cub (I will get a lot of people disagreeing with me, but that's fine). The Tiny Cubs even more of a handful than the full size version.
My simple Stick takes off without effort and flies like its on rails and is great in the air, yet I've crashed it twice once my turn was too slow. Second time I shut down the throttle to soon and it fell out of the sky. Yet others have said there version glides great, yet too solve that issue could be model weight/CG issue
Sometimes it just takes practice getting use to a particular plane, keep practicing and eventually you get use to how a particular model behaves, that's the key to this hobby practice, practice, practice.
I take at least 6 sometimes 7 models to the club, where older members only take 1 or 2. They ask me why I bring so many with me, simple answer the more variation in models I fly the more experience I gain. If I constantly fly the same model week in week out I never progress, but if I vary between delta wings, powered gliders, trainers and warbirds in one day. I learn to react to the different flight characteristics if different models better.
I use to fly a Volantex Trainstar constantly. Its a brilliant trainer and easy to fly, I use to do circuit after circuit left and right then progressed to perfecting landings. Eventually moving on to touch n go's, figure of 8s left and right and finally take offs.
Only when I had finally mastered the basic maneuver's and various wind conditions I started trying various planes again now I fly an assortment.
We went through the same Covid lock-down situation in the UK and there was no flying at the club for the first 5 month of this year and a long period last year too. So I use to fly in the local farmers field at the bottom of my garden.
Don't get me wrong am not saying flight stabiliser's are a bad thing, they have there uses. However, they are just not a good learning too, as they give you a false sense of security. You won't develop the necessary skills you will need, when you progress in the hobby.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

Here's my thought with stabilizers:

They have their place.

I don't think you should use them to LEARN to fly; what happens when you get into a nicer plane that doesn't have a stabilizer? What if a friend offers you a chance at the sticks of their plane, and it doesn't have a stabilizer built in? Or, if you're trying to go for a competition flyer, and there's no stabilization? What then?

Also, I watched my father fly his Sensei into a tree because there was a stabilizer on it that would not allow him to roll it enough. A strong wind came up, he had full right stick to steer away from the tree, and it blew it right into the tree, about 100 ft up.

All of that said, I've seen the benefits of a stabilizer with a 6S EDF; you don't have to be as steady, and it makes flying one a lot easier when you're punching up at 100 mph on a low pass, or trying to come in for a landing. They certainly have their benefits, but I think they're a detriment to someone learning to fly.

Well said sir your reply beat mine

 

[CappyAmeric]

Success! Hand-launch with a clean wing worked great, and I even managed two soft landings in a row...not even a somersault. That third landing, though...less gentle.

Here's a video for anyone who needs a chuckle:

(now back to the workbench for some repairs...)

Light poles - the bane of all school-yard flyers. I hate them. Worse than trees.

 

[bisco]

.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

I'll weigh in with this.

This is a Flite Test forum. Flite Test is all about being uplifting, and encouraging people of all skill levels to enjoy the hobby.

I believe thumbs down option would go against this. I'm not saying you can't disagree. But do it with words. Explain why you disagree in a polite and helpful manner, instead of just a drive by thumbing.

As far as the use of stabilizers? How far do you take it? Do you use dual rates? Expo? Or is this considered cheating? Are you using your stance on stabilizers as a form of elitism?

If the use of a flight stabilizer helps get someone into the hobby, great! If it keeps them in the hobby, even better. If someday they feel confident enough to take the next step, that's fantastic.

Just don't be the guy who feels the need to talk down to someone just because their path in the hobby is different than yours.

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I'll weigh in with this.

This is a Flite Test forum. Flite Test is all about being uplifting, and encouraging people of all skill levels to enjoy the hobby.

I believe thumbs down option would go against this. I'm not saying you can't disagree. But do it with words. Explain why you disagree in a polite and helpful manner, instead of just a drive by thumbing.

As far as the use of stabilizers? How far do you take it? Do you use dual rates? Expo? Or is this considered cheating? Are you using your stance on stabilizers as a form of elitism?

If the use of a flight stabilizer helps get someone into the hobby, great! If it keeps them in the hobby, even better. If someday they feel confident enough to take the next step, that's fantastic.

Just don't be the guy who feels the need to talk down to someone just because their path in the hobby is different than yours.

 

[The Hangar]

I'll weigh in with this.

This is a Flite Test forum. Flite Test is all about being uplifting, and encouraging people of all skill levels to enjoy the hobby.

I believe thumbs down option would go against this. I'm not saying you can't disagree. But do it with words. Explain why you disagree in a polite and helpful manner, instead of just a drive by thumbing.

As far as the use of stabilizers? How far do you take it? Do you use dual rates? Expo? Or is this considered cheating? Are you using your stance on stabilizers as a form of elitism?

If the use of a flight stabilizer helps get someone into the hobby, great! If it keeps them in the hobby, even better. If someday they feel confident enough to take the next step, that's fantastic.

Just don't be the guy who feels the need to talk down to someone just because their path in the hobby is different than yours.

Very well put. Ultimately this hobby is about fun so however you can achieve that safely I’m all for!

 

[TheFlyingBrit]

I am un-aware of your your flight proficiency testing and certifications in the USA.
However, here in the UK the A cert accreditation is the basic test for model aircraft competency and safety, its overseen by BMFA (British model flying association).
You are expected to have this accreditation if you wish to fly in any of the UK clubs that are affiliated to the BMFA.
The only caveat being that some clubs can use at their discretion, an intermediary process. They can issue a temporary safe solo certificate to anyone who passes the clubs basic flight and safety test with an instructor. The only proviso to this is that they take their BMFA - A certificate test within 12 months of passing there safe solo test.
Both the Safe solo tests and A certificate tests must be completed without the use of a flight stabilisation or flight controller units.

Now based on Hangers comment about safety for all and fun, why do you think the BMFA and official registered model flying clubs insist on members learning to fly and passing basic proficiency tests without flight stabilisation and flight controllers ?

Sorry to bring this up but its been a thorn in my side for the last 24hrs. Has this world become so sad that people can no longer give criticism, have alternative opinion or disagree occasionally. The thumbs down suggestion wasn't even meant seriously, it was a throw away comment.
The fact that someone has taken umbridge over this to the point where they had to make a remark, shows how pathetic and sad this world has become. I at least have respect for the members of the forum who actually bothered to read my actual post and respond either in agreement or disagreement, I am at least mature enough to accept both and any criticism.

As for the thumbs up it suggests to me that the person likes or agrees with something. The thumbs down is only the opposite opinion you dislike or disagree nothing more. It is not a personal attack on someone, an insult or a demeaning gesture meant to impart condemnation or abuse at someone. It is quite simply a means of showing a difference of opinion. Therefore if you suggest that (in this politically correct society) we cannot voice that difference of opinion by offering a thumbs down. Then you should remove the thumbs up option too and by so doing have only neutral gestures on the site . You should also make it clear in the forum rules, that members are not allowed to have opinions that disagree with others.
An example: Horseradish, English Mustard, Wasabi . Chili, Vindaloo Curry, mustard cress it is just an opinion the world doesn't end because I dislike Wasabi or Horseradish and nobody is hurt by it, in fact nobody gives a except me.

If your still in the same frame of mind and can still not see point I am making. Then I suggest you remove all emoji's and just have one emoji of a bleating sheep in field eating grass.

 

[bisco]

it was simply a different opinion than yours. not everyone is subject to the rules in the uk. and even so, that is secondary to the matter of the best way to learn to fly.

to suggest that gyro's can't help someone learn to fly is completely wrong. it may not be the best way, but it is a method that works if done properly.
if not done properly, then the pilot can still enjoy flying at whatever level of proficiency they have reached, if they choose to.
of course, we are all welcome to our opinions.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Sorry to bring this up but its been a thorn in my side for the last 24hrs.

For someone who wants to be able to post criticisms, you seem awfully put out by a difference of opinion.

 

[CappyAmeric]

All I know is I’m glad I live In the USA. “Certified“ to fly R/C? No thank you.