Trim Drone, roll issue?

[Darkwing]

Hi everyone,

I have problem with a drone that crashed every time ive tried to use it the last 1,5 years. This is Very disencuraging and after trying to google the solution it seems i cant figure it out so i come here searching for the collective visedom in this community.
It seems to me the problem is an overcorrection in roll axis that sends the drone up to the clouds even with a very small amount of throttle.

The drone is a Tarot 200 class.
Are the setting way off?
Should I put something inbetween the frame and the CC3D-board to dampen?

pleas advice
best regards Darkwing

 

[Tench745]

I'm not well versed on trimming quads (only did one about two years ago). But it looks to me like your proportional gain settings are way too high. Others who know more will chime in soon. This post is mostly a thread bump.

 

[LitterBug]

Make sure the FC orientation is configured correctly and that the model in the GCS Flight Data screen responds in the exact same way you move it on each axis (pitch, roll, and yaw). Make sure your ESCs are calibrated and the correct protocol is selected too. Looks like it just took straight up like a rocket. I don't have LibrePilot, but use it's cousin dRonin which looks very similar. http://dronin.org

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[Darkwing]

Thank you, Tench745, LitterBug.

I have some follow up questions since english is not my first language, neither is drone...
Ill give them numbers to make it easier not to confuse the ansers.

Proportional gain
1. I have a knob/dial on my transmitter. Would that be a good idea to assign as proportional gain with values from nothing to current value?

2. FC orientation? Flight circuit?

3. the GCS Flight Data screen is depicting reality correctly.

Ive been running the set up your weichle thing a few times, the esc´s Ive at leat at one occation set separatly. since the motor doesnt all start at the same number while setting them up.

4. Should you always do them together in a "batch"

In what order should I start changing the set up?
Esc:s sounds to me like a logic place to start or is knob proportial gain the way to start?

 

[LitterBug]

Thank you, Tench745, LitterBug.

I have some follow up questions since english is not my first language, neither is drone...
Ill give them numbers to make it easier not to confuse the ansers.

Proportional gain
1. I have a knob/dial on my transmitter. Would that be a good idea to assign as proportional gain with values from nothing to current value?

2. FC orientation? Flight circuit?

3. the GCS Flight Data screen is depicting reality correctly.

Ive been running the set up your weichle thing a few times, the esc´s Ive at leat at one occation set separatly. since the motor doesnt all start at the same number while setting them up.

4. Should you always do them together in a "batch"

In what order should I start changing the set up?
Esc:s sounds to me like a logic place to start or is knob proportial gain the way to start?

#2) There should be an arrow on the FC that points forward. Does it point to the front, and if not, have you adjusted the parameters to let it know which way is forward?
#3) If that is the case, sounds like #2 is correct. Make sure it is correct for three axis. Roll, pitch, and yaw.
#4) Try recalibrating the ESC endpoints. If all the gear is the same, they should be starting pretty close to the same point.

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[Darkwing]

Hi LitterBug! =)

Ok, now there is new information and footage.
This is how it flies, on wich settings.

Is a battery that is not very tightly secured, and high up the issue?

It seems silly when the default value is SO much grater than this, and it still wobbles sideways.

 

[PsyBorg]

Looks like it wants to hover. I also think there is some new pilot nerves and over reacting happening once its in the air. I see somethings I would probably change to make it more controllable so I edited your settings with what I would try. Keep in mind I have never worked with this particular flight controller so I can only assume it has similarities to all others. The numbers I came up with were a guesstimate based on the slider bars proportionality of what the current settings are.

What I changed is the rate for pitch and roll in the first box so its less aggressive over all. Lowered the rates in the second box to soften them further. Then added exponential in the right hand box to make the center of the stick range not so aggressive Just keep in mind the outer limits are still pretty snappy for a new pilot. Then I changed the proportionals to numbers more closely suited to your frame and raised the I gains to help settle it down so it shouldn't be so wobbly.

Give those a try and make another video so we can see how the changes effected to quad.

BEFORE you take off just slowly bring the throttle up to take the weight off the ground not fly.. Then tilt pitch and roll just a touch and make sure forward is forward back is back left is left and right is right.

 

[Darkwing]

Hi PsyBorg.

This is my first race drone so I havent been programing before, however, its not my first drone.
Im quite confident that it is not pilot error, but now I´ll try to more clearly to show my stickmovements.

After applying your setting it looks like this.

What I would like is as I wrote (intended to mean) in the original post.
How do I change the settings so it wont overcorrect on the roll axis starting to wobble uncontrollaby?

These suggestions given seems to have made this overcorrection vorse.

 

[PsyBorg]

Ok I just reread your first post several times.. when you say "should I put something between the frame and the CC3D board" does that mean the Flight controller is just sitting in the quad? Is this a prebuilt quad or did you put it together? Is it possible you get us some pictures of the insides and wiring of this quad?

If that Flight controller is just sitting in the quad with nothing to keep it still THAT would explain a whole lot.

 

[LitterBug]

What flight modes do you have configured? Are you using auto leveling, acro, etc... Like PsyBorg said above, some detailed pictures showing the FC in the frame would be helpful.

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[Darkwing]

As for prebuild or no. Its somewhere in between.
The sensitive/difficult parts was soldered/mounted before arrival, but the esc and motorn ive attached.

Pictures
from the manufacturer
more info and pics, follow link.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/tarot-200-class-fpv-mini-through-the-machine-quadcopter-pnf.html

This is how my looks.



Flightmodes

 

[LitterBug]

Can you post a screenshot of your attitude tab from GCS?

Unfortunately I do not have any FCs compatible with LibrePilot to set up one of my quads on for comparison sake. You do however have the option to use dRonin with your CC3D. Might be worth a try if we can't figure anything else out.

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[Darkwing]

Funny, two days i go i wrote a reply to this, apparently i hit preview instead. =/

As for prebuilt or no.
Its somewhere inbetween, the complicated electronics are presoldered, but motors and esc werent.

Specs and additional info is here
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/tarot-200-class-fpv-mini-through-the-machine-quadcopter-pnf.html





Flightmodes and my pics of flightboard

 

[PsyBorg]

Is it me or am I correct in thinking they mounted that FC upside down and rotated 90 degrees from traditional FC's. Also I am not liking how the FC is in the front of the quad and not at cog more in the middle. That has got to play hell with the gyros I would think.

 

[LitterBug]

Is it me or am I correct in thinking they mounted that FC upside down and rotated 90 degrees from traditional FC's. Also I am not liking how the FC is in the front of the quad and not at cog more in the middle. That has got to play hell with the gyros I would think.

In the pictures It's laying upside down. I thought the same thing at first, but looked at the store links to the quad.

LB

 

[LitterBug]

Funny, two days i go i wrote a reply to this, apparently i hit preview instead. =/

I could see it just fine. Can you post a screenshot of the GCS Attitudes tab?

LB

 

[jhitesma]

Is it me or am I correct in thinking they mounted that FC upside down and rotated 90 degrees from traditional FC's. Also I am not liking how the FC is in the front of the quad and not at cog more in the middle. That has got to play hell with the gyros I would think.

Doesn't look like an official CC3D so hard to say if the orientation is correct or not. Whoever cloned it may have moved some things around.

As for the positioning...the gyros don't care where they're located. Accels care a little bit but not enough to lose any sleep over. Which isn't to say COG doesn't matter on a multi - COG will affect how it handles in flips and rolls. But positioning of the FC really doesn't make any difference.

 

[Darkwing]

Yeah, that was me just missing there was a page two in the thread :/ Im a forum rookie but now i learned that too =) Wont make that mistake again.

@ LitterBug
I dont have any problem problem switching program for programing the CC3D since I apparently cant handle LibrePilot...
If dRonin is more user (me) friendly ill gladly have a crack at it.

As for attitide tab screenshot, here it is.



@PsyBorg, Sharp eyes, as they written, ive turned the drone upside down to show it.

@jhitsema, as for authenticity, I have no clue. How do I make it to act like a well trained drone should?

 

[jhitesma]

I can't really help with LibrePilot since I've never used it...I have however flown Tau and dRonin almost exclusively for the past 2 years and they share the common ancestor of OpenPilot. But enough is different that I don't pretend my experience transfers over to LP since they do a number of thing differently.

If you do want to try dRonin I did a video on how to go through the initial setup here:

That's a release or two out of date, but the process is still the same. And if you don't like dRonin you can always flash back to LP again.

If you do try dRonin and need more assistance I can certainly do my best to help. My advice if you go that route would be to try and do an autotune and share the results even if it doesn't fly well on the tune. My video on doing autotune is here:

The nice thing about sharing your tune is you can then look it up on http://dronin-autotown.appspot.com/at/ and share it. The tune raw data includes all of your settings so it's easy to see what might be wrong. There's also a prettier interface to the tunes on droning.org/tunes which includes the ability to download the UAVO settings - but that's mostly helpful if you want to restore your own previous settings. The autotown links are easier for me to look at when helping someone with a config issue.

 

[Darkwing]

It seems to be a bit more stable with the default settings in dRronin. The interfaceses are very similar to LibrePilots. A big plus here is that it talks better with CC3D than LibrePilot where i "manually" had to do some things, now the initial firware update and such works fine. It manages to reboot automaticly and does not demand a manual etc.
I do encounter issues though.

One thing in particular is that it does not recognise the fail safe. Here I got stuck in the set up. I've tried with two different radios and receivers with the same result. It does only work if I pull the battery out, then it understands there is no signal... no good. I skipped it (witch I know you shouldnt, but i couldnt carry on otherwise.)

Its too unpredictable to set in to autotune mode, it does not hover stable enough, its too jerky for me to dare take focus of anything els than having it under control-ish.

There seems to be something wiered/unpredictable with the arm/disarm as well.

Tomorrow ill have an other go at it. Do it again from the beginning and dial down the proportial gain more from the default and hopefully have even better results =)

chat you later