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Versacopter GR18 PID settings. Stability etc

#22
For me increasing D was the key...I think. Things were a little bit hot after a flight I had the other day, but then again it was also over 90 degrees F out at the time. I'm hoping I don't burn anything up. I've heard I should reduce P and I now a little bit to compensate, but flying feels so good right now.

I also got to fly my old NAZA-M based ZMR this past weekend. (I gave it to my nephew who lives in Los Angeles...) I honestly can't believe I flew that thing. The tune wasn't horrible, but it was nothing like my Graupner. Now where it gets really hard is, how would I feel flying a Naze 32?

DB
I've done a lot of tuning - most of it hopelessly ineffective. I've finally got it where it isn't too bad. Be careful of hot motors - I burnt four up on a Tweaker - it was because of props that took too many dings - and me flying five flights back-to-back without worrying about the heat. The props looked good but when I changed them, the motors started running much cooler. I now check the heat after each flight and if they are getting warm, I try to identify the problem. The first clue is jello on the FPV camera - it indicates vibrations that shouldn't be there.

The single most important thing I've done is to become fastidious about clean and straight props and to tune the tx so the calibration of the sticks was spot on (and then calibrating the ESCs for the new TX settings). I know that sounds weird but I was apparently a dip**it when I first set it up. PIDs are about half the stock setup (for P, I, D) when I'm on 4s. It now has good response - not quite as good as with the NAZE but it seems to be getting closer as I mess with it and the guys in the club who do ride alongs have been remarking about the increase in performance.

I am running a Seriously DoDo FC (high end NAZE clone) on another small frame. I connected a GR-12L to it and am using SUMD. It flies well. I'm not sure the increase in performance is huge but the chip is rock solid and easier to tune than the GR-18 (fewer parameters). I like the Graupner feedback/telemetry. I'm running the voltage telemetry on both of the frames. Very, very handy for me. I stopped puffing batteries!
 
#24
Ladykate,

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I've finally gotten my two GR-18 based quads to the point where I am really happy. Increasing D on my Alien helped a ton. Motors didn't get warm in that case, but on my blade 150 a combination of too high D and too aggressive props coupled with a crash led to a burned out motor.

TimDunn12312 Not sure with the MZ-18. It hurts that a lot of the online videos and manuals are in German (I think). I posted a video showing how to do it with the MZ-12. Hopefully you can find the same features on the MZ-18.

As for me I really like the GR-18. It obviously has its disadvantages, but I find the combined packet helpful for getting clean builds and now that I have a clue what I am doing I've found it easy to tune and reliable.

Best of luck to you all.

DB
 

Sid

New member
#25
anyone know how to set up acro mode for the gr 18? I have a mz18 transmitter so its alittle different than the mz12
This is how I did it with my MZ-18

1. make sure quad is either off or no props
2. goto to "CH Set" that is in the "Base" Menu
3. then on #5 it should say "AUX1" and the red box should say "None"
4. click on "None" then a little window will popup saying "Select" and have 2 options "No" & "Clr", so at this point flick a switch that you want to use and it should go back to say "5. AUX 1 SW(whatever number of switch you flicked)"

and I believe that is all, if i remember right
 
#26
Timdunn12312 In addition to setting the aux switch to go into manual mode I also set a minimum throttle and a throttle cutoff. This allows you to drop the throttle all the way down as you do flips and stuff which makes your flips much tighter. I made a video showing how to do it with a MZ-12. It won't be the same for you, but hopefully you can look for common words or headings in your various menues and get all configured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5gqsQItbMo

Hope this helps.

DB
 

FlyingMonkey

Stuck in Sunny FL
Staff member
Admin
#28
Guys, good thread.

I've not done any flying with my Graupner (and barely with any of my Spektrum) gear all summer (actually probably not since last fall) so I'm very rusty on the advice side.

That said, this thread is chock full of good information, and I'm making it a sticky.

Thanks!
 
#29
Versacopter, GR-18: Issues Motor #3 won't spin on startup

This is my second Versacopter. Love the platform. Went with GR-18, MZ-12 combo this time. Worked well first time, then I went to add LED lights which worked successfully on test. But, when re-assembled to go flying heard constant beep-beep-beep... though binding appeared successful. Powered up motors and all but #3 spun up and beeping continued.

Any suggestions? Wiring looks good, soldering is double-checked.

Appreciate any help
 

FlyingMonkey

Stuck in Sunny FL
Staff member
Admin
#30
I'd check a few things.

Are there beeps coming from #3? Unplug the other motors, and see if it's getting any power/signal.

Does #3 spin by hand? Check for obstructions in the motor. Since they're full of magnets, sometimes they suck small metal parts into the motor.

With the props off, and motors spinning just above idle, wiggle the wires to #3.
 
#31
This is my second Versacopter. Love the platform. Went with GR-18, MZ-12 combo this time. Worked well first time, then I went to add LED lights which worked successfully on test. But, when re-assembled to go flying heard constant beep-beep-beep... though binding appeared successful. Powered up motors and all but #3 spun up and beeping continued.

Any suggestions? Wiring looks good, soldering is double-checked.

Appreciate any help
I think the beeping could be coming from 1 of 2 places...Either the flight controller, though I don't think the GR-18 has a beeper, or the ESC. More likely the ESC. I would bet, the ESC is getting power but no signal, so it is beeping to let you know that. Might have the ESC wire plugged in backwards or not seated properly. Hopefully that solves the problem.

Best of luck.

DB
 
#32
I'm bumping this thread for, hopefully, more exposure because, I'd love to find someone successful with their tuning. I haven't changed a single setting, I'm flying only in stability mode still and it handles great. I'm flying LOS exclusively right now and so far I've learned and become very comfortable with orientation.

What I'd love to know is, before I dive into learning acro/rate mode, I would LOVE to increase performance in stability mode. Specifically, does anyone know what settings I'd need to change to achieve "more angle" while accelerating so I don't gain altitude? Obviously I need to manage throttle but, I'm wondering if I can change the angle "limits" in stability mode, and lift the training wheels a little before I start learning rate mode. I need more speed!

Cheers!
 

PsyBorg

Fly Angry
Mentor
#33
Yes you can. I do suggest you not use angle mode but use Horizon mode instead. This allows for greater angles with no change in settings but will also allow for flips and rolls and STILL get auto level if you get back within the set angle range.

What Gui do you use as well as flight controller and radio? I can give you better instructions with that information.
 
#34
Sorry...been out of things for a while...In the middle of making dinner now so I don't have time to delve into this too much, but you could try increasing the agility setting in telemetry, though that might just change how quickly it changes directions. I'll play with it tomorrow and see what I come up with. Currently I have it set to 10 already so...

tomorrow, and I'll try to post a video showing what the changes actually do.

DB
 
#36
So I played around with this a bit last night and this morning. I also scanned through the manual which isn't much help, though it does eliminate some possibilities...

I could not find a way to change the maximum angle. :-( From the looks of it flying line of site the max angle is about 45 degrees which makes sense because at that point lift and thrust vectors would be equal and with a camera angle of 30 degrees you would be looking down more than forward.

So...you want to go faster without popping up...

Here is what I tried...

First I tried adjusting the agility. This changes how fast the copter switches direction, and not the limit on that direction...

Second I tried adjusting the roll factor. This is actually based on the difference between how wide the distance is between the motors on the left and right side of your quad is, compared to the distance between the front and back motors...This adjusts the quads behavior based on that ratio, This makes the quad twitchier from side to side but does not change the max angle...

Third I checked through all of the other available settings in telemetry and with the radio...Didn't see anything there.

Finally I checked the manual, and that was of little help outside of corroborating what I discovered through experimentation.

So a couple recommendations...

1) Increase your camera angle.

I have found that probably the single most important factor in my either going too fast, or not fast enough has been my camera angle. When I am on a race course and I find myself missing turns and blowing gates, I decrease my camera angle and find myself flying in a much more controlled manner...When I find myself falling behind the people I am flying with or popping up over them when I try to speed up, I increase my camera angle...

I tend to fly with my view looking where I want to go...With a steeper camera angle the quad will be tipped forward more when I throttle up so that I end up going forward faster...With a shallower angled camera if I tip forward too far I am looking at the ground so when I throttle up the quad lifts more which forces me to manage the throttle and fly slower...

2) It might be time to switch to rate mode...

Ok... just to be clear...I flew in atti mode for years and felt no need to make the switch...You may be ready, you may not be...Personally I sited a lot of reasons for not making the switch...1 reduced crashes...2 flying through much tighter gaps that I couldn't fly through in rate mode...3 flying the NAZA-m lite which doesn't really lend itself well to flying in rate mode...

I started light...switching into rate mode to do a flip or two and then switching back... which progressed to flying almost exclusively in rate mode...

Here is my thought...If you increase your camera angle then when the quad autolevels itself, you will be looking at the sky...This is a discomforting sensation...I think this is what people mean when they say they feel like atti mode is "holding them back", or that they are "fighting with the quad" in atti mode. You might have hit the point where you are bumping up against that feeling and need to make some sort of change... :-(

best of luck.

DB
 

PsyBorg

Fly Angry
Mentor
#37
Not sure what gui he is using but any of the "*flights allow for changing max angle as well as the strength for how hard the quad will fight to get back to level. I am currently tweaking the settings in my Gremlin for when the time comes to fly indoors I am ready as well as to give others a decent place to start. Angle mode you can change max level only. Horizon mode you can change angle and strength.

Those settings are the next block below pids.
 
#38
Hey folks! Thanks for getting back to me!

I'm strictly using the MZ-12/GR-18 combo right now, no other FC. I had planned on using a NAZE32 as well but, I could never get it to even sync with my old Mac (probably a dead board, according to the help on this forum), so I've abandoned that for now while happily learning to fly.

I'm ONLY flying LOS right now and enjoying the snot out of it. I'll get into FPV soon but I'm in no rush, as I'd love to become proficient in LOS before moving to FPV. So, camera angle is a non-issue aside from a GoPro I throw on if I really want to record my flight.

PsyBorg, you mention additional flight modes, which would rock, but I'm guessing that's when you were assuming I'd be able to tweak things in beta/cleanflight? It's too bad really, because what you're describing sounds just like what I want. Any other suggestions maybe?

Basically, I feel pretty confident whipping this thing around now and would just love to up the ante. I've been flying micro-quads indoors for years, moving up to mini-quads has been pretty seamless so far. I may just need to take the leap to rate mode. (Funny story: at first I was flying in rate mode for two days before I realized it wasn't horizon mode. I had a few crashes.)

Specs incase it matters:
Versacopter
F80 2200kv (uh-huh)
Lumenier 30a escs
Mz-12/Gr-18

And I'm torturing (or trying not to) some 3s batteries while I wait for a few 4s batteries from banggood. So far they don't seem to hate me too much. Maybe I just need to wait for those 4s batts to indulge my need for more speed.