x2204 Motor/12A ESC issue

[JMundy]

I have a Lumenier Danaus 250 size quad that I built for my son. I just did the maiden and initially it flew good, so I decided to go into Autotune, but when I did it fell from the sky. So I picked it up, nothing broken and armed, but decided to keep it low to the ground to test it out. I hit the throttle again, and it flipped over and fell to the ground. At this point I was scratching my head... I did a thorough examination, still cant find anything wrong.

Next while holding the quad down on the floor, I armed and ran up the motor a little.... no problem. So I decided to push it, as I went to approx 5/8 throttle, each motor stopped at different points, then started and stopped... Problem found!! I am thinking that my amp draw is exceeding the ESC ratings, but not sure.

I have a Watt meter... here is what I found, at 1/2 throttle it reads 12A and 100W, above this point is where problems start happening. Suggestions???

Here are the spec on the Quad

Motor - Ready to fly quads x2204 2300KV (rating 490g of thrust with HQ 5x4 at 10.5A / 130W)
Props - HQ 5x4
ESCs - Lumenier 12 amp ESC with SimonK Firmware (Just noticed these are discontinued)

 

[JMundy]

BTW - I am running cleanflight 1.8.1 on a Naze32, since I can repeat the problem with the quad held down, I am thinking it is not related to the Naze, but I could be wrong.

 

[cranialrectosis]

What Lipo are you using?

 

[JMundy]

What Lipo are you using?

Nano-Tech 1300 mAh 45-90C Discharge

 

[cranialrectosis]

Nano-Tech 1300 mAh 45-90C Discharge

3S I assume?

What connectors and what gauge wire are you using? Any JSTs or wire < 22awg?

Are your watt meter readings for one motor or for all 4?

 

[RichB]

100 watts at 12 amps means your battery is putting out 8.3 volts while under load.

How old is that nanotech? Did you ever discharge it too low or leave it charged for months at a time? I suspect that it's toast.

 

[JMundy]

3S I assume?

What connectors and what gauge wire are you using? Any JSTs or wire < 22awg?

Are your watt meter readings for one motor or for all 4?

XT60 with 12AWG wire from the Luminear distribution board... yes all 4 motors

 

[JMundy]

100 watts at 12 amps means your battery is putting out 8.3 volts while under load.

How old is that nanotech? Did you ever discharge it too low or leave it charged for months at a time? I suspect that it's toast.

Nanotech is new, only used a couple times and never ran below 3.6V/cell and I store my batteries balanced and at 3.8V/cell... just to make sure it is not the battery, I tried a couple more of my 3S 1300mAh 45-90C batteries... same results.

I think we can eliminate the battery as the issue

 

[cranialrectosis]

Will your watt meter also test lipos? If so, what is the charge on that lipo and does this happen with that battery or with multiple batteries?

Edit: We cross posted. So the lipo is not the issue.

2300kv motors running 5040 rotors on 3S should be a very mild load. I run 6045s this way at WOT all the time.

Could you have a cold solder joint going into the PDB?

 

[JMundy]

I use these same batteries on my QAV250, but it has Luminier 1806- 14 2300KV motors, but same 12A ESCs

 

[JMundy]

Will your watt meter also test lipos? If so, what is the charge on that lipo and does this happen with that battery or with multiple batteries?

The watt meter will tell me what the total volts are on the pack... I have a separate tester to provide volts per cell. The issue happens with all three batteries I try (3S 1300mAh 45-90C)

 

[JMundy]

Could you have a cold solder joint going into the PDB?

I guess anything is possible, but would this explain all 4 motors stopping at slightly different throttle levels?

 

[RichB]

Watt does the what meter say is the voltage while you are measuring 12A @ 100W?

How old are these ESCs?

A year ago the current version of SimonK had issues with holding timing for certain motors. The effect would be after about a minute or so, the rotors would suddenly stop, then restart. The bug was fixed after a few months, but I've seen ESCs sold as recently as early 2015 that still had that firmware. Reflashing with the latest fixes it.

Tell me, when the motors start failing, do they just lose power and spin down, or do they suddenly stop like they had brakes?

 

[JMundy]

Watt does the what meter say is the voltage while you are measuring 12A @ 100W?

How old are these ESCs?

A year ago the current version of SimonK had issues with holding timing for certain motors. The effect would be after about a minute or so, the rotors would suddenly stop, then restart. The bug was fixed after a few months, but I've seen ESCs sold as recently as early 2015 that still had that firmware. Reflashing with the latest fixes it.

Tell me, when the motors start failing, do they just lose power and spin down, or do they suddenly stop like they had brakes?

The lowest battery I tried was at 11.7V

ESCs were purchased from GetFPV a couple months ago, but this is the first time they have been used. I had to wait a couple weeks for the ESCs to come in, so they weren't old ones sitting on the shelf.

The motors lose power for 1/2 second then spin back up... all 4 motors are doing this, but not at the same time.

 

[narcolepticltd]

It might be a weird signal issue, but if you have a spare motor of a different make I'd solder one of those into the mix (replacing one of the current motors) and then spin everything up with the props off... see if the new motor also exhibits that behavior or if it's fine (while the others continue to crap out). might be some weird sync issue on the RTFQ motors as well

I'm a bit biased... every time I see RTFQ components where there's a problem I immediately see them as suspect.

 

[JMundy]

It might be a weird signal issue, but if you have a spare motor of a different make I'd solder one of those into the mix (replacing one of the current motors) and then spin everything up with the props off... see if the new motor also exhibits that behavior or if it's fine (while the others continue to crap out). might be some weird sync issue on the RTFQ motors as well

I'm a bit biased... every time I see RTFQ components where there's a problem I immediately see them as suspect.

Thanks narcolepticltd for continuing to give this some thought...

Without the props on, the motors do not have any problems, this makes me further suspicious of the ESCs. I wonder if there was a bad batch.... I will give GetFPV a call tomorrow to see if they have any advice.

 

[nilsen]

If you connect it up to Cleanflight while reproducing the issue on the motors tab does the signal stop sending to the ESC's or does cleanflight continue sending the signal?

If it happened after autotune maybe you encountered some weird bug?

 

[cranialrectosis]

Thanks narcolepticltd for continuing to give this some thought...

Without the props on, the motors do not have any problems, this makes me further suspicious of the ESCs. I wonder if there was a bad batch.... I will give GetFPV a call tomorrow to see if they have any advice.

I think we have decided it isn't the lipo.

I am inclined to agree with you. This is either power going to the distro board or the ESCs themselves. The problem only happens under load.

Do you have a short video clip of the problem?

Do you have any other ESCs?

Do motors or ESCs get hot?

 

[JMundy]

If you connect it up to Cleanflight while reproducing the issue on the motors tab does the signal stop sending to the ESC's or does cleanflight continue sending the signal?

If it happened after autotune maybe you encountered some weird bug?

This was a good suggestion! I also thought of that last night, but just tested it... in CleanFlight from the motor tab, by testing 1 motor at a time, I was able to discover the problem is on 3 of the 4 motors/ESC

Not sure how to determine if cleanflight is sending the signal...

I think I will try flashing an older version of cleanflight to see if this makes any difference

 

[JMundy]

I think we have decided it isn't the lipo.

I am inclined to agree with you. This is either power going to the distro board or the ESCs themselves. The problem only happens under load.

Do you have a short video clip of the problem?

Do you have any other ESCs?

Do motors or ESCs get hot?

Sorry, no video, but I will make one if I cant resolve soon... again, when I get over 1/2 throttle and almost to 3/4 throttle, the motors lose power for 1/2 second then regain power for 1/2 second, then continue this cycle till I am back at 1/2 throttle or less

I dont have any 12A ESC laying around, but I do have them on my QAV250, so I can swap motors and test that way... I am going to try a older version of Cleanflight, or maybe try Baseflight first

The motors and ESCs are barely getting warm...